That’s not really what he says. The main point Salidino makes is that just because something is a plant, it doesn’t make it good for you. Right now, our general society markets plant as unequivocally healthy. This is wrong, the general public’s perception of plants for health is wrong and needs change.
Saladino I’ve actually found fairly frustrating to follow because of how willing he is to change. It’s a little like CT and training. Old CT programs sometimes see 100% opposed to the new ones.
Just so everyone knows, Saladino’s current recommendations aren’t that extreme. He now advocates “carnivore-ish”. Meat based. Low toxicity carbs from plants/honey with the idea to figure out what plants you personally tolerate. He even recommended white rice in a recent podcast. It’s almost the vertical diet, only with organs and without the greens.
EDIT: Oh and he is now big time anti- seed oil/ Linoleic acid.
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As someone studying nutrition and exercise science i found it quite interesting.
Its not something commonly talked about or completely understood, and on the flip side, alot of academics are quick to talk up a vegan diet claiming its better for the environment and body.
Where most history, biology and present data show that isn’t the case at all.
Way too many other factors come into play that are never considered or discussed when it comes to different diets working for different people.
Political ideology has replaced science and reason. If ideology isn’t influencing data then business and social engineering definitely are, but that’s been happening for decades. The 3 are one and the same.
In saying that, I was skeptical of his hypothesis about cholesterol but some of the information he presented was interesting.
There were points i agreed with and also questioned.
I hope more studies are done to better understand the diverse role nutrition plays in our health and well being.
This was the real eye opener for me. The notion that a plant isn’t an anti-oxidant; it is actually a pro-oxidant which triggers an endogenous anti-oxidant response upon ingestion. Yet, they are marketed very differently. Unfortunately, some people jump on these assertions and you are either a ‘vegetable-hating meat eater’ or a ‘meat is murder vegan’.
Norton pushes BCAA… Comes off as more of a bro scientist, imo
I heard this podcast. I found it interesting. My problem with these types of diets/claims, though, is:
- The person almost always has a financial interest in the approach. Supplements, books, gear, etc…
- To “stand out” with a new diet/eating approach, you need to be so extreme because nearly everything conceivable has already been put out there. For example, it may well be true that highlighting high quality animal meats and organs in our diets would lead to improved health. However, to ONLY eat these doesn’t seem supported by science or by anecdotal evidence (even Paul S and Shawn Baker haven’t done it very long). But, if his claim was to eat high quality meats, organs, along with fresh fruits and vegetables, well, that wouldn’t be anything new. (I think that is the Whole 30).
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Humans have been eating vegetables since the beginning of time. Just because your cult leader said it’s bad doesn’t mean he’s right.
With these kinda claims they make, carnivore nutjobs are vegetable hating meat eaters. The whole basis of the marketing is the controversy of only eating meat. I even had nutjobs trying to tell me that alternate day fasting and eating pounds of raw meat in one meal was an ideal diet.
Meat is great. It’s tasty and nutritious, but it’s stupid to only eat meat. That’s why you don’t see any high level carnivore athletes, just gen pop dudes who were previously out of shape off a Standard American Diet, and then got healthy from the change.
Vegetables are great. They’re tasty and nutritious, but it’s stupid to claim you can get 200g of protein off black beans and kale. I see top athletes who are vegan, but they were also high level before they were vegan.
The overwhelming majority of awesome physiques and high level athletes we see follow an omnivorous diet. But I’m sure they got it all wrong because some psychiatrist who doesn’t even lift said so.
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Please don’t project. In no way did anything I said mention vegetables as bad. Nor do I follow what Saladino “preaches”. And what I said about plants is very much correct. Something being a plant doesn’t make it healthy.
I’m not sure what I’m projecting here?
What point were you trying to make? I was specifically talking about vegetables when you chimed in. Saladinos tweet, that Layne reposted, called it “plant foods”. What do you think he’s referring to exactly?
Of course being a plant doesn’t necessarily make it healthy - that’s why I wouldn’t drink hemlock juice, eat tree bark, or do a poison sumac face mask. “But but but I said ‘plants’! not ‘vegetables’” Interesting wordplay.
Correlation =/= causation. Define “nutritious,” too.
Also… A lot of these guys look “great” in spite of what they’re doing not because of it. Incredible genetics, dedication, consistency > vegetable enhanced physique / athletic superiority.
True vegetables have been consumed for millenia, but isn’t a bit telling that only a very very small number are actually edible and non poisonous to humans ? I’ll follow natures model here. Vegetables were far more often consumed out of necessity and today’s versions are a far cry from the original state.
And using edgy words like “cult” doesn’t make you sound cool or superior but more like a condescending douche.
Being a vegetable doesn’t make it healthy. Many vegetables cause many issues for many people. Meat typically does not. The general recommendation for everyone to eat all the veggies of all the types you want is bad advice. For example there are even a number of people that shouldn’t be eating fiber and telling them to load up on veggies is dumb.
The plants we consume today haven’t existed for millennia…
The tone of this thread has descended to new depths. What started with some decent debate has been hijacked by an outpouring of ill-informed crap. I’ll bow out.
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I stated that by saying they’re vastly different
Sadly. Always ONE…
Exactly. I feel like we’re omnivorous strictly out of necessity. Like when meat / fats / organs were scarce or unavailable. You can survive for a period on SOME vegetables but not thrive.
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I take it the ‘carnivore diet’ means one should eat only meat? I would have thought that the keto and paleo folks had fished that lake dry. As they say, old wine in new bottles. But anyway, that’s not what you asked me to comment on.
Objectively speaking, the fact that someone has MD behind their name shouldn’t be taken as evidence they possess expertise in nutrition. But it is also true that the public grants doctors a significant amount of unearned credibility; ie, most of the public assumes doctors are ethical, competent and trustworthy until proven otherwise, and that if a doc tells you something you can take it to the bank. Unfortunately, on occasion an unethical doctor will exploit this trust, usually for financial gain. Is Dr Saladino doing this? I don’t know enough about him to form an opinion. I think it’s fair to say his public-facing website is designed to promote his financial interests–but this doesn’t mean the products he’s selling are defective.
You would like to see any health-related recommendations go through peer review. Here’s hoping he–or better yet, independent investigators–will test his nutrition ideas empirically.
I don’t know what he’s recommending, so can’t comment on any specifics. I will say that medical boards are not fans of physicians practicing outside of the scope of their training. But generally, these issues only get raised if/when someone files a complaint alleging harm with the board. So he would have some 'splaining to do if a pt alleged, say, that he suffered an MI because of the cholesterol-laden diet Dr Saladino prescribed for him. In such a situation, he would be asked to justify his seemingly out-of-scope practice habits. (Whether he could do that, I have no idea.)
He would need to tread very carefully in this regard. If, say, a depressed person he was ‘treating’ via his diet should commit suicide…
Finally, and as an aside: Am I the only one to think it’s funny that a guy promoting a carnivore diet has the word salad in his name?
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“nutritious” = containing nutrients
If only a small number are actually edible and non-poisonous, those are the vegetables to eat. What “original state” are these vegetables not in? GMO produce has the same nutrients, macros, etc as non-GMO. Organic produce nutjobs are another story.
For carnivore and vegan nutjobs, it applies.
Yeah, and thats an instance where I’d say they shouldn’t eat vegetables. That decision would be made by an MD who specialized in internal medicine, not psychiatry. I get bubble guts when I eat celery or kale, so I don’t eat celery or kale. But there are plenty other plant foods out there for me to eat with my meat.
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Yes to both
I am genuinely very excited for the results of this study
Well, maybe. You can say what you want about population studies, but there are still systematic reviews covering millions of people that argue reducing red meat is a good idea.
With any health recommendation, especially recommendations made to the masses, there should ideally be very good peer-reviewed evidence in support of the intervention. That doesn’t yet exist with carnivore, but the study you mentioned earlier will help rectify this
Also, people cannot be trusted to make up their own minds. Hence, peer-review is very much imperative
I’m very glad to hear that
I don’t know enough about nutrition do decide if he is wrong or right. I think he is operating outside of his scope of practice and qualifications. I don’t doubt his knowledge
Yes.
My two main sources, Norton and House, both have PhDs in nutrition. Israetel’s is in sport physiology, Nelson’s is in sport physiology and Galpin’s is in kinesiology. Hence, Norton and House are my primaries.
Yep. I think there are more qualified coaches than Norton. I defer to him for nutrition science, not exercise science.
Me too
Not saying Norton’s perfect. I’m saying he’s still more credible (in my opinion) than Saladino. I also am pretty sure he isn’t that strong on BCAAs. He doesn’t sell a BCAA supplement and I’ve heard make several critiques of the supplement
@EyeDentist you covered a whole bunch so I just want to start by saying thank you for your input!
Y
Yeah carnivore is meat only, and I totally agree
This is a good opportunity to clarify my stance too: I don’t think Saladino is a snake oil salesman, I just have serious concerns about the credibility of his statements.
Agreed
As @JamesBrawn007 mentioned, there’ll be some empirical data on the efficacy of carnivore soonish. Whether or not it will stand up to volume of data promoting current recommendations remains to be seen, but I think the data will be very elucidating regardless
Gotcha. Would Saladino be liable if someone follows his recommendations via his podcasts/books etc and experiences a health event like MI?
Agreed
Didn’t notice, but I do love some irony