Jews and Slave Tradimg

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

to DrSkeptix :

If you want to accuse me of something, especially something like crypto-anti-semitism, say it to me, not to Sloth.

I asked which “opinion ?” because i expressed none.

I never said (nor thought) that IQ tests were “altered secretly and malevolently, for their own nefarious ends”.
I’m no conspiracy theorist.

But i know that human sciences are not hard sciences, and are quite often and quite naturally affected by various socio-cultural biases.

I do not affirm there is one bias in this case, I don’t know, but I think it’s quite possible.

If (and i mean if) there is a bias, it’s probably a selective and/or a projective bias.

Maybe, just maybe, the IQ test doesn’t measure “pure and absolute universal intelligence” but one specific kind (or part) of intelligence. the one of their creators.

I’m not sure an aboriginal scientist would have had the same definition of what “intelligence” is, would have designed the same tests, and that we would have the same chart of results.

But maybe i underestimate the “scientific value” of these tests and the recent developments in this field. It’s quite possible. After all, i’m only an high-school teacher, on the old continent.

Now, if you really think there is absolutely zero socio-cultural bias in modern IQ tests, YOU are making the stronger claim, and YOU should justify it.
Obviously, sarcasm won’t do the trick.

edit :
I realize that my point was probably poorly (and not completely) worded, and that it may have sounded like an insinuating remark. I didn’t feel (and i still don’t feel) able to discuss the technical (and epistemoligical) minutiae of IQ tests in english.

That being said, accusations of anti-semitism should not be made lightly.
When we see anti-semitism everywhere, we lose the ability to see it where he is, and to oppose it when it’s really needed.

82

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Where is orion and what have you done with him?[/quote]

lol.

83

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
I find the article full of faults, but for a discussion of Ashkenazi IQ by biogeneticists: http://web.mit.edu/hst.508/www/Ashkenazi.pdf.

For crap, see any post by Rohnyn or method-man.
[/quote]

Does this mean because I’m Ashkenazi I get to add 15 to my IQ? Hmm…this could be good.

84

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
I find the article full of faults, but for a discussion of Ashkenazi IQ by biogeneticists: http://web.mit.edu/hst.508/www/Ashkenazi.pdf.

For crap, see any post by Rohnyn or method-man.
[/quote]

Does this mean because I’m Ashkenazi I get to add 15 to my IQ? Hmm…this could be good. [/quote]

you have to take the test first lol.
if you are Ashkenazi, statistically you’d have a better chance of scoring higher than if you weren’t.

85

[quote]kamui wrote:
to DrSkeptix :

If you want to accuse me of something, especially something like crypto-anti-semitism, say it to me, not to Sloth.

I asked which “opinion ?” because i expressed none.

I never said (nor thought) that IQ tests were “altered secretly and malevolently, for their own nefarious ends”.
I’m no conspiracy theorist.

But i know that human sciences are not hard sciences, and are quite often and quite naturally affected by various socio-cultural biases.

I do not affirm there is one bias in this case, I don’t know, but I think it’s quite possible.

If (and i mean if) there is a bias, it’s probably a selective and/or a projective bias.

Maybe, just maybe, the IQ test doesn’t measure “pure and absolute universal intelligence” but one specific kind (or part) of intelligence. the one of their creators.

I’m not sure an aboriginal scientist would have had the same definition of what “intelligence” is, would have designed the same tests, and that we would have the same chart of results.

But maybe i underestimate the “scientific value” of these tests and the recent developments in this field. It’s quite possible. After all, i’m only an high-school teacher, on the old continent.

Now, if you really think there is absolutely zero socio-cultural bias in modern IQ tests, YOU are making the stronger claim, and YOU should justify it.
Obviously, sarcasm won’t do the trick.

edit :
I realize that my point was probably poorly (and not completely) worded, and that it may have sounded like an insinuating remark. I didn’t feel (and i still don’t feel) able to discuss the technical (and epistemoligical) minutiae of IQ tests in english.

That being said, accusations of anti-semitism should not be made lightly.
When we see anti-semitism everywhere, we lose the ability to see it where he is, and to oppose it when it’s really needed.[/quote]

Your sophistry aside, I simply asked for your sources for the claim that YOU made.
You provided 2 Jewish-sounding names as proof that a bias was introduced.

Now, then, do you have proof that the bias was introduced by a cabal of Jews, or not?

If not, then you expressed an opinion based on no fact whatsoever, simply the supposition that Jews must have introduced bias into IQ testing. This is your prejudice to explain and not mine, and I see it here, and not everywhere.

Of course, you may choose to withdraw the insinuating remark, and I would understand that, too.

86

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
I find the article full of faults, but for a discussion of Ashkenazi IQ by biogeneticists: http://web.mit.edu/hst.508/www/Ashkenazi.pdf.

For crap, see any post by Rohnyn or method-man.
[/quote]

Does this mean because I’m Ashkenazi I get to add 15 to my IQ? Hmm…this could be good. [/quote]

you have to take the test first lol.
if you are Ashkenazi, statistically you’d have a better chance of scoring higher than if you weren’t.
[/quote]

Lol, I already took the test and I don’t think I am an Ashkenazi Jew (don’t care if I was). Just making a joke.

Plus who wants to be in Mensa, I prefer Densa.

87

not what i said, not what i thought, not what i implied.

i think the underlying theory of intelligence behind IQ tests may be affected by an unconscious, unwilling, naturally occuring ethnocentric bias, which is extremely common and hard to avoid in all human sciences. And i think this may partially explains the “ashkenazi effect”.

obviously not.
but it was not my point.

“this malevolent cabal of jews who introduced a bias in the IQ tests for their own nefarious ends” are your words and your fantasies not mine.

Have a good time fighting windmills, Don Qixote.

88

[/quote]

Gee, has it occurred to any of you to go look up who invented the IQ test? Let’s look:

Alfred Binet, French
Theodore Simon, French

The first widespread use of the Binet-Simon IQ testing, BTW, was done in the USA to recruits before WWI.

The results were attacked massively because it showed that “undesirables of known low intellect” (the Joooos) were consistently a standard deviation over the mean, which was impossible because everyone knew the Jews were stupid and dirty.

+++++++++

Regarding the silly topic of reparations, even though my family showed up (and left again after serving in the military) just before WWII, I’ll pay reparations, just as long as Obama pays double, given that his white side owned slave, and his African side (the Luo tribe) were the most active slave traders, ever, capturing non-muslim Africans to sell in North African countries and then to the Portugese and Spanish.

90

My point in this thread, was to half-troll/half-reason out some abstract thought in alot of the PC brain washed types. The thought being the hypocrisy of the current PC viewpoint on inter-ethnic/race politics of our nations.

We see a disparity between achievement in economics and politics between Gentile and Jews, yet overall Gentiles seem to be OK with using the intelligence disparity between Gentiles and Jews to justify the difference. With a higher average IQ score, Jews would have a higher percentage of empowered people.

Yet in PC terms, Whites are supposed to feel guilty that they are more wealthy and accomplished than Blacks for instance. Despite the fact that IQ tests confirm that disparity in the exact same way as Jews and Gentiles. You see the contradiction? Not only is that not commonly accepted, you could probably get kicked out of a University for openly favoring that opinion.

The intelligence and mental stability of an individual is the PRIMARY determinant of his success and not the color of his skin. Some genetic groups have a portion of similar genetic characteristics, we call these groups ‘races’, and there is a disparity in the mean averages of these groups, because of this, they also have lower achievement.

There is no way to fix that other than robbery or eugenics, so why do the politicians say otherwise?

91

[quote]kamui wrote:

not what i said, not what i thought, not what i implied.

i think the underlying theory of intelligence behind IQ tests may be affected by an unconscious, unwilling, naturally occuring ethnocentric bias, which is extremely common and hard to avoid in all human sciences. And i think this may partially explains the “ashkenazi effect”.

obviously not.
but it was not my point.

“this malevolent cabal of jews who introduced a bias in the IQ tests for their own nefarious ends” are your words and your fantasies not mine.

Have a good time fighting windmills, Don Qixote.[/quote]

Well, now that you have identified yourself as a source of empty wind, I accept your retraction and apology.

92

“Yet in PC terms, Whites are supposed to feel guilty that they are more wealthy and accomplished than Blacks for instance.”

says who ?

"Not only is that not commonly accepted, you could probably get kicked out of a University for openly favoring that opinion. "

Supreme Court declared U of M affirmative action implementation unconstitutional after white student sued.
She then declined to get admitted too lol.

93

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Regarding the silly topic of reparations, even though my family showed up (and left again after serving in the military) just before WWII, I’ll pay reparations, just as long as Obama pays double, given that his white side owned slave, and his African side (the Luo tribe) were the most active slave traders, ever, capturing non-muslim Africans to sell in North African countries and then to the Portugese and Spanish.[/quote]

In 1951, Israeli authorities made a claim to the four powers occupying post-war Germany regarding compensation and reimbursement, based on the fact that Israel had absorbed and resettled 500,000 Holocaust survivors. They calculated that since absorption had cost 3,000 dollars per person ($25,365 in today dollars), they were owed 1.5 billion dollars ($12,700,000,000 in today dollars) by Germany. They also figured that six billion dollars worth of Jewish property had been pillaged by the Nazis, but stressed that the Germans could never make up for what they did with any type of material recompense. Negotiations leading to the Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany began in March 1952, and were conducted between representatives of the government of the Federal Republic, the government of the State of Israel, and representatives of the World Jewish Congress, headed by Dr. Goldmann. These discussions led to a bitter controversy in Israel, with the coalition government, headed by David Ben-Gurion, claimed that reparations were necessary to restore what was stolen from the victims of the Holocaust.

The agreement was signed by Adenauer and Moshe Sharett on September 10, 1952 in the town hall of Luxembourg. The German Parliament (Bundestag) agreed March 18, 1953 with a low majority only.

$12,700,000,000 in today dollars!

But yet for 400 years of slavery the black man gets shit!

95

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandpappy may well have been THE slaveowner that hunted down your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmama and hauled her to a west African port to sell to a Portuguese merchantman.
[/quote]

You should read up on how slavery was in Africa vs. what it was in the Western world. The two are very different. Even if by your reasoning, you were to blame the African slave traders for being the “first link” it is the Europeans who brought them to the Americas and continued the multi-generational systematic slavery that some philosophers like Marx thought were a key element to the industrial revolution.

97

^^
I was going to raise some of those questions RE reparations but the idea is so ridiculous I just played it for laughs. On a related topic; we have lots fake blacks here in Aus. Here is ‘aboriginal’ artist Bindi Cole. Because she claims to be aboriginal she is entitled to special grants, higher rates of social security and many other things. There are lots of these whackos here. I can’t imagine crazy white people in the US getting away with calling themselves African Americans.

Bindi Cole, ‘aboriginal’ artist.

98

For reference, an actual aborigine. One of these things is not like the other…

99

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
For reference, an actual aborigine. One of these things is not like the other…[/quote]
Those are a very strange people indeed. While topologically they appear very African to the uninitiated, racially Swedes are far closer to Bantus than the Abos are. Their closest relatives are a minority race in Oceania called the ‘negritos’ who have black skin and blonde hair, and of the major population groups, the South Indian ‘Dravidians’ are said to be the closest bloodline to the Aboriginals.

Back to the topic of IQ, the mean score of Aboriginals is the lowest of any group, quite a bit lower than African peoples. The difference between South Indians and Aboriginals is also akin the disparity between Africans and Whites.

Interestingly enough, in case you didn’t know, Whites are closer related to Black Africans than they are to ‘Yellow’ Asians. So whatever evolutionary divergence caused the disparity between the European Whites and the African Blacks, may have been similar to what occured between the Australian Aboriginals and the South Indian Dravidians.