A big problem with the authors of the biblical text is that they didn’t know what the concept of ‘proof’ involved. They did not think as we do, so them speaking to us through the Bible is like two different planets coming into contact. Holding them to standards we accept in a logical argument is not (IMO) justifiable.
Just as we do not blame Lincoln for telling racist jokes, because of the times he lived in, we shouldn’t hold biblical authors to the same standards of a modern scientific text.
That being said: I believe that, since more people will not accept faith as sufficient for knowledge, only personal experience can be the foundation for your belief in God. Quoting scripture is no longer a valid argument.
Sorry Haney, I wasn’t really directing that at you. It’s just for the last week or so religion has taken over the place.
I don’t think I was judging them, just stating that the scriptures are symbolic instead of realistic.
Some people, perhaps not yourself, claim the scriptures are the direct word of God. As such, I expect pretty damned high standards with respect to use of language. That God couldn’t make meanings clear pretty much goes against the concept of all powerful and all knowing.
Language, and the choice of words out of those available, at least for something well written, conveys a hell of a lot of information. If the words in the scriptures were not well written or well chosen, that would speak volumes in it’s own right.
“The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who SUPRESS THE TRUTH by their wickedness.”
“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”
“They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised.”
“The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who SUPRESS THE TRUTH by their wickedness.”
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So, just to make sure I’ve got this straight… scientists who believe in carbon dating are wicked and godless. And being wicked, they are intentionally leading us away from the path of God. Because they are under the influence of Satan.
If you aren’t a fundamental literalist, there is no harm in realizing that the Bible is written by man and that the circular proofs and threats of vengence and damnation are attempts to coerce belief or behavior.
Thinking thus doesn’t make you Godless or wicked. It means you are smart enough not to follow the words of man instead of using your God given brain for it’s purpose.
“The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who SUPRESS THE TRUTH by their wickedness.”
“For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”
“They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised.”
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Zeb, once again you amaze me with your artistic use of bold fonts. Maybe next time you can use all caps, bold, and italics. That will REALLY strike fear in the hearts of the heathens…
[quote]vroom wrote:
Sorry Haney, I wasn’t really directing that at you. It’s just for the last week or so religion has taken over the place.
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yeah, it has seemed to run amuck!
I would agree many of them are descriptive, and not meant to be literal.
I think it is the word of God, but I think people are looking for the cheap way out of understanding the Bible.
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Language, and the choice of words out of those available, at least for something well written, conveys a hell of a lot of information. If the words in the scriptures were not well written or well chosen, that would speak volumes in it’s own right.[/quote]
I don’t think the point of any scripture was meant to be a science class. It was meant to convey a message. Which many people use to grasp at straws to prove their scientific point. If Christians are going to be fair than we have to allow the parts of the Quran that have scientific points in them to be included which would also make it the word of God. Since I don’t accept the quran, for personal reasons then I can’t accept the science part of it as being from God either. Since I am a fair person I disqualfy what I believe are questionable scientific proofs that the Bible has.
or to simplify: the Bible isn’t trying to be a science book.
If you aren’t a fundamental literalist, there is no harm in realizing that the Bible is written by man and that the circular proofs and threats of vengence and damnation are attempts to coerce belief or behavior.
Thinking thus doesn’t make you Godless or wicked. It means you are smart enough not to follow the words of man instead of using your God given brain for it’s purpose.
What a shame.[/quote]
WRONG! If you aren’t a fundamental literalist, then you are going straight to hell, and you will be tortured eternally for the entertainment of those who were pure enough to shut their ears to the balsphemous chatter of secular scientists…
If you aren’t a fundamental literalist, there is no harm in realizing that the Bible is written by man and that the circular proofs and threats of vengence and damnation are attempts to coerce belief or behavior.
Thinking thus doesn’t make you Godless or wicked. It means you are smart enough not to follow the words of man instead of using your God given brain for it’s purpose.
What a shame.
WRONG! If you aren’t a fundamental literalist, then you are going straight to hell, and you will be tortured eternally for the entertainment of those who were pure enough to shut their ears to the balsphemous chatter of secular scientists…
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Here is a website to a Bible fundamental literalist video on hell. Hell is NOT eternal. Please go to “Is The Devil In Charge Of Hell?” Click “Watch”.
Swordthrower, too bad the fundamental literalists can’t agree on your belief in this matter.
However, somewhere in there, Mr literalist, it says you will be judged by your actions and your faith. It doesn’t say you have to do the hocus pocus, stick your left foot in, and shake it all about.
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
I CORINTHIANS 14:34-35
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
[quote]vroom wrote:
On a totally different note, I am so sick of people throwing around religion and scripture quotes as if that actually proves or means anything.
For fuck sakes, can we get back to arguing about politics already?[/quote]
What is different about that and people throwing around unproven scientific theories? Both are based on faith and not fact.