Jesus or Burn

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Spinoza got kicked out of his synagogue and shunned for disagreeing with the literalists. Good company! :wink:

Spinoza went a bit further than non-literalism… he was essentially an atheist…[/quote]

His expulsion was early on. They tried to bribe him into renouncing his position, but money meant little to Spinoza. He’s a very cool guy, what I picture as a true philosopher.

Can we equate his calling all of existence God, with atheism? I’d have to think about that. Got some links?

102

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Well, folks, I have been away for awhile living my life – yes it is good to have a life. You guys should try it sometime!

I went onto T-Nation expecting to find something new. What did I find, the same blah, blah, blah, blah – man’s “grand” ideas about how the universe works and more slander against the Lord of Heaven and His Messiah – God Incarnate – The Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you guys not see the “handwriting on the wall?” With all of the wars going on and the nuclear threats – especially in the Middle East – tells me that the end times are a commin’.

[b] The choice is yours: Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and call out to Him, or burn.

          Bow or Burn

There is no other choice friends. It is either flee off of the broad road that is leading you to destruction in an eternal Hell and get onto the narrow way that leads to LIFE. Yes LIFE – life eternal.

The day is coming that you will no longer be able to make that choice. Make it now. The time is short.

         Bow or Burn

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world; but thta the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John 3:16-18

[/quote]
You expect me to bow to a god that would not just kill,but condemn his own children to horrible tortures for ETERNITY? Do you have children,pets even? If one of them makes a mistake,following their own instincts,do you torture them,burn them?

I sometimes wonder if people really consider what they are advocating. If god is really that heartless,I can see why Lucifer revolted!

103

I think Steve has a Histrionic Personality Disorder and although this usually occurs in women, some guys get it too. Usually this comes about as a result of issues in childhood with parents or due to mental issues after relationship breakdown.

Symptoms: (Source Psychology Today)

Constantly seeking reassurance or approval

Excessive dramatics with exaggerated displays of emotion

Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval

Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior

Overly concerned with physical appearance, often unhappy with current body image (funny that).

Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are

Self-centeredness, uncomfortable when not the center of attention

Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification

Rapidly shifting emotional states that appear shallow to others

Opinions are easily influenced by other people, but difficult to back up with details.

Probably I would imagine, Steve became a Born Again Christian as an alternative to deep depression after a traumatic experience.

We should pity him. But also try to help him.

104

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Can we equate his calling all of existence God, with atheism? I’d have to think about that. Got some links?
[/quote]

No, but I can refer you to Rousseau’s Letters from the Mountain, in which he maintains the same point.

Pantheism per se, and especially when combined with the denial of a personal God or afterlife is not much of a theism at all; it is playing with definitions.

I’ll qualify my point by saying that to a Jew or Christian, pantheism is an extremely weak kind of theism. It is not a revealed religion. It does’t admit divine intervention (or even interest) in human affairs.

Left to its own devices, pantheism is a sort of vague appreciation of the beauty of the universe without a moral component (this is why Einstein references “Spinoza’s God”). What Freud describes as the “Oceanic feeling” of wonder at the grandeur of the universe.

To follow the Freud thread a bit further, it doesn’t become real religion until a totem is erected, and a series of moral rules established.

Not to say that Natural Theology, on the other hand, doesn’t provide the pantheist or agnostic with a viable, moral alternative.

But from a strict pantheistic perspective, laying out these few points:

  1. There is no personal God. God does not care about you as an individual.
  2. There is no afterlife.
  3. From 1, there is no divine punishment or retribution for misdeeds. There is no divine recompense for good or extraordinary ones.
  4. There is no afterlife.

Well, to paraphrase Freud: A peasant told that there is God but no afterlife replies “Then, wherefore God?”

105

[quote]jasonigor wrote:
I think Steve has a Histrionic Personality Disorder and although this usually occurs in women, some guys get it too. Usually this comes about as a result of issues in childhood with parents or due to mental issues after relationship breakdown.

Symptoms: (Source Psychology Today)

Constantly seeking reassurance or approval

Excessive dramatics with exaggerated displays of emotion

Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval

Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior

Overly concerned with physical appearance, often unhappy with current body image (funny that).

Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are

Self-centeredness, uncomfortable when not the center of attention

Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification

Rapidly shifting emotional states that appear shallow to others

Opinions are easily influenced by other people, but difficult to back up with details.

Probably I would imagine, Steve became a Born Again Christian as an alternative to deep depression after a traumatic experience.

We should pity him. But also try to help him.

[/quote]

I’m sorry to laugh but this sounds like some modern-day version of the Inquisition to me. “Sir, you are a zealous Christian, so you must be nuts! We will now begin the exploratory surgery! Ha, ha, ha!(manical laughter).”

Look, Steve goes somewhat overboard, probably just to piss off a lot of young egotistical males. Have a good laugh, insult him, and go on. Or you could start a thread called the ‘Jaws of Satan’ and enjoy that…

HH

106

[quote]nephorm wrote about pantheism:

  1. There is no personal God. God does not care about you as an individual.
    [/quote]

A variation of this thought is found in buddhistic philosophy. If god is the universe (a pantheistic god), then every individual is irreplaceable for god, because through every conscious mind god can see himself. God will not punish evil deeds, nor will he reward good deeds, he can probably not even do that, but you will get your reward in fullfilling your purpose. A muddled mind is the punishment in itself, a clear mind the reward.

107

[quote]karva wrote:
nephorm wrote about pantheism:

  1. There is no personal God. God does not care about you as an individual.

A variation of this thought is found in buddhistic philosophy. If god is the universe (a pantheistic god), then every individual is irreplaceable for god, because through every conscious mind god can see himself. God will not punish evil deeds, nor will he reward good deeds, he can probably not even do that, but you will get your reward in fullfilling your purpose. A muddled mind is the punishment in itself, a clear mind the reward.[/quote]

Just to clarify, though, this is not the same thing as pantheism. Buddhism is similar to Natural Theology, in that morality is relative to man by nature and not by choice.

108

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

I’m sorry to laugh but this sounds like some modern-day version of the Inquisition to me. “Sir, you are a zealous Christian, so you must be nuts! We will now begin the exploratory surgery! Ha, ha, ha!(manical laughter).”

Look, Steve goes somewhat overboard, probably just to piss off a lot of young egotistical males. Have a good laugh, insult him, and go on. Or you could start a thread called the ‘Jaws of Satan’ and enjoy that…

HH

[/quote]

LOL…

Jog on.

109

When someone is so positive about consequences I’ll face in my afterlife a couple of questions pop into my head. A rational answer to these would be appreciated.

  1. How can one ever say “God says” “Jesus says” or “God’s truth” when referencing a Bible that was written by MAN, compiled from multiple varied sources, influenced by personal biases, and brought together a couple hundred years after Christ’s death? How the hell do you know what God thinks or says?

If you played the telephone game as a kid you know a story can’t cross a classroom in tact. How do you expect these stories to remain true to their original form? How about what was left out of the stories? Why was it left out? What ends did that serve?

  1. How do you quote passages verbatim, as a literalist, and not fall into the trap of of eisegesis? It alway seemed to me that those who thumped the Bible hardest were, generally speaking, most guilty of this transgression.

A Catholic upbringing and a Jesuit college education were unable to provide answers for me, but if anyone can it’s T-Nation.

110

[quote]nephorm wrote:
karva wrote:
nephorm wrote about pantheism:

  1. There is no personal God. God does not care about you as an individual.

A variation of this thought is found in buddhistic philosophy. If god is the universe (a pantheistic god), then every individual is irreplaceable for god, because through every conscious mind god can see himself. God will not punish evil deeds, nor will he reward good deeds, he can probably not even do that, but you will get your reward in fullfilling your purpose. A muddled mind is the punishment in itself, a clear mind the reward.

Just to clarify, though, this is not the same thing as pantheism. Buddhism is similar to Natural Theology, in that morality is relative to man by nature and not by choice.[/quote]

I thought about the statement ‘There is no personal God’ and the conclusions one can make from that. You are right, the conclusions are very different and have different backgrounds, too.

111

So, people who live somewhere in the rainforest in Brasil and never had any touch to civilisation and those to christianity go to hell, huh? Or the people who lived in the about 500,000 years before christianty came along?

Makes a lot of sense to me.

I guess the only way to haven is to be like Ann Coulter…

112

This is getting tiresome and honestly, I think its getting out of hand.

Talking about religion is one thing. Telling all the members in a new thread every three weeks that they’re going to hell is crossing the line.

113

Can someone please tell me who is the /I/ in steve’s Rev 20 1:15 quote?

114

eisegesis = I see Jesus? Fun with Etymology…

115

[quote]larryb wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
Ahahahahaha! I love it when assclods take the Noah situation literally. Ahahahaha! Two of every fucking animal! Ahahahahaaha.

Luke 17:26 shows that Jesus Christ believed in the story of Noah and the Flood as LITERAL.

Are you calling Jesus Christ that name? Is He mistaken, Vroom and you are correct?

That’s hardly fair. In Jesus’ time people didn’t have a good understanding of the results of inbreeding, so we can forgive him. However, in this day and age if you believe that two elephants are a viable population, then you are an assclod.[/quote]

So you are calling me an “assclod,” but you are saying that Jesus Christ --who is God – didn’t have all of the necessary information at his disposal.

Please look in the mirror the next time you use that word.

116

[quote]orion wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
orion wrote:
Steveo,

it never appeared to you that an entity that is extremely powerful and demands of us to “bow or burn” is nothing more than a cosmic schoolyard bully?

Has it ever occurred to you that He is God and you are His Creation and You are accountable to Him?

Bow or Burn – that’s what the Bible says. You are we to argue with God?

If such a God were human he`d be on par with Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot.

Instead of following him I would rather burn.[/quote]

See where you are mistaken in your attempt to humanly understand God apart from faith, is this. Hitler and Stalin killed INNOCENT PEOPLE. God judges GUILTY SINNERS – of which I and the rest of us – all humanity are part.

However unlike Hitler and maniacs like him, God gives us freedom to choose Him over our sin, but He (as any good and competent judge) will execute judgement if we don’t take His free grace. Stalin and Hitler didn’t offer any free grace to anyone.

Stop with these ridiculous comparisons. And besides, “you would rather burn.” I hardly think that is what you will be thinking when you are in Hell’s flames for eternity burning forever and ever…

Bow or Burn – this is what God says in His Word.

117

[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Luke 17:26 shows that Jesus Christ believed in the story of Noah and the Flood as LITERAL.

Are you calling Jesus Christ that name? Is He mistaken, Vroom and you are correct?

Not THAT is FUNNY…I’ll take Jesus over you any day.

Bow or Burn, Vroomy – what the Bible teaches!

Steveo,

I know the science is beyond you, but two of a species indeed is not generally enough to support a strong and viable population.

You had perhaps better reinterpret what Jesus was saying. I am certainly okay with the fact that there may have been a man named Noah who prepared for a regional flood and gathered up that which he could and saved it.

However, to try and pass it off as literally exact just shows how much of a moron you are.[/quote]

So you were there at the time of Noah to give us a first hand account of what did or didn’t happen.

Hmmm…Vroom or Jesus…

…I take J E S U S!

118

[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
You know, they laughted at Noah while he was building the ark. Well, they laughed for awhile. I imagine that they weren’t laughing when Noah and his family were in the boat and the rest of the world was drowning. I guess the laughing stopped, huh?

Ahahahahaha! I love it when assclods take the Noah situation literally. Ahahahaha! Two of every fucking animal! Ahahahahaaha.

Luke 17:26 shows that Jesus Christ believed in the story of Noah and the Flood as LITERAL.

Are you calling Jesus Christ that name? Is He mistaken, Vroom and you are correct?

Not THAT is FUNNY…I’ll take Jesus over you any day.

Bow or Burn, Vroomy – what the Bible teaches!

I think there is scientific evidence of a great flood many, many years ago. [/quote]

It is everwhere – true science is and always has been consistent with Scripture!

119

[quote]LNEX wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

Well, you can try to solace yourself by blaming those who follow Christ and His commands. You made a bad decision and are trying to justify that bad decision.

I am a Christian because I have been saved. I am saved through the shed blood of the Lord Jesus – just like the Bible says. I live my life in accord with Scripture, and share my faith actively in obedience to my Lord and Savior.

You can come to Him at anytime, but you have to humble yourself.

“Bow or Burn” – this is a summary of what the Bible teaches. While I might have made up the slogan, it is very Biblical and so I stand upon God’s Word.

You still didn’t answer your question, what gives you the right to judge me. It’s up to god to judge me.

you say I have chosen wrong yet I have sought my faith by speaking to many religous leaders and no one has ever said that I would burn for what I beleive, or that I would have to bow or Burn.

as I said if the only reason your a Christian is to prevent yourself from going to hell its as if your saying that you don’t kill people so you don’t go to jail.

your not a good Christian(so you say) because you love God and believe in his words you are a Christian to avoid Hell.

[/quote]

Sorry, perhaps due to the late hour when I can post, I missed your question. Sorrry.

I am not judging you at all. I am only explaining what the Word of God teaches. It does teach “bow or burn.” The Bible teaches that:

(1) Everyone is a hell bound sinner.
(2) Sin separates us from God.
(3) Good works or anything we can do are useless.
(4) Jesus paid our infinite fine
(5) We must accept Jesus by faith in order to be saved from Hell.

I am not a Christian because I only don’t want to go to Hell. I came to faith because I believed in the points above, and asked Jesus to save me – and He did! My life as a new man in Christ has been a “wonderful struggle,” but nevertheless, I do love God because He first loved me and saved me!

However, than being said, I cannot avoid the teaching of the Bible that without salvation I would be on my way to an eternity in Hell. It is not wrong to know what I have been saved from and warn others.

It is like this: If both of us went into a plane and we sat in our seats and then I asked you to put on a parachute you would think I was nuts. A parachute – why I don’t need one. But if I warned you that we were going to have to jump when we hit 30,000 feet with or without one, I think you would appreciate the warning, put it on and start to pray.

At the end of our lives, it is like we have to jump out of the plane. Jesus is the parachute!

120

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

HH,

I appreciate you comments and your honesty. But honestly, can you find even one verse in the Bible that supports your view of only really bad sin is punishable by God?

James 2:10 teaches exactly what Deuteronomy 27:26 teaches and that is this: He who even breaks ONE of God’s commandments, one time is guilty of breaking all of them and therefore is guilty. That is what the Christain (and Jewish) Bibles teach.

Can you find anything in Scripture – after all if you are “Christian” then the teaching must come out of Scripture – that supports your view and thus contradicts the clear teaching as I have shown you?

If you find you are not really saved, you can be. It does take humbling though. That is what God requires. I sincerely hope that you truly find God on His terms and not continue to create a God in your own mind to suit your own tastes.

Jesus taught that people are more important than rules, such as when he healed the sick on the Sabbath. His point was that the Jews placed rules above people. It therefore follows that Jesus understood that we are not perfect. Jesus also taught that God is a forgiving God. To earn his eternal wrath, you’d therefore have to do something pretty evil.

Remember, the Bible was written to attract an audience (Spinoza). If you simply said, “An east wind allowed the Hebrews to cross the river.”, you’d lose your audience. Thunder and lightning make good selling points. Read the Bible that way and it’ll make far more sense. It is truth, but dressed up to get converts. Remember that.

HH

[/quote]

Where are the verses to support your point? I have given clear verses from Scripture refuting what you are saying and you only give me your interpretations of things.

Verses please?