[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
You know, they laughted at Noah while he was building the ark. Well, they laughed for awhile. I imagine that they weren’t laughing when Noah and his family were in the boat and the rest of the world was drowning. I guess the laughing stopped, huh?[/quote]
Ahahahahaha! I love it when assclods take the Noah situation literally. Ahahahaha! Two of every fucking animal! Ahahahahaaha.
[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
It always surprises me how someone can be so sure that there is no God. I mean come on, how can anyone be so sure that there is no God?
What inspires such confidence? Sounds foolhardy to me.[/quote]
Foolhardy in what way? Perhaps there is a god who punishes all those who were foolish enough to believe in the false religions of the world, and rewards atheists and agnostics. Of course, that would unfairly favor those who were raised Catholic, so he’d have to grade on a sliding scale.
[quote]orion wrote:
Steveo,
it never appeared to you that an entity that is extremely powerful and demands of us to “bow or burn” is nothing more than a cosmic schoolyard bully?
[/quote]
Has it ever occurred to you that He is God and you are His Creation and You are accountable to Him?
Bow or Burn – that’s what the Bible says. You are we to argue with God?
[quote]juninho wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Imbrondir wrote:
I talked to a jehovas wit… um, i mean a friend told me how a friend of his talked to a jehovas witness (who besides being utterly annoying, usually knows alot of the bible). I… um, he asked him how he could believe in a god, with so crystal clear propaganda, that you’ll either go to paradise or burn in hell.
It turns out that neither hell nor satan is really mentioned in the bible (It is a belif that survived from older religion through a latin and a hard to read bible). And the closest verse about the unbeliever in afterlife says something like:
“… and he who won’t believe shall not see, not feel, nor know that he is dead”
Basicly what an atheist believes happens in “afterlife”. Can anybody prove me wrong, and show a verse reciting hell or satan?
How many do you wish? Here are a couple:
[b]
"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." Matthew 18:7-9
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14-15
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hella delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:1-15 [/b]
There are many many others that you can look up yourslef. The Bible teaches about Satan and hell very clearly. It also teaches that if you don’t come to Christ before you die, it is too late.
Hell awaits all who don’t take the free gift of salvation but eternal life awaits those who do. Pretty simple when it comes down to it, I think.
But what about this quote? It seems to back up the original poster and contradict yours:
“turn off thy mind, relax and float down stream, it is not dying.
Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void, it is shining, it is shining.
That you may see the meaning from within, it is being.”
Rev, 14:1-3.
[/quote]
Nice made up verse, but unfortunately not only is it not Rev. 14:1-3, but this is nowhere in the Bible.
The Bible says…Bow or Burn and Rev. 22:18 says not to make things up or we will be even more accountable!
[quote]danmaftei wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
danmaftei wrote:
I got some serious questions.
1 - What if I choose burn?
2 - How is it merciful to punish someone who has never heard of God by burning them in hell?
(1) If you choose burn, you will get it.
(2) You have heard of God’s mercy in His plan of salvation through Jesus Christ. Therefore you are without excuse (Romans 1).
(3) You can and should choose bow since that leads to eternal life!
God’s mercy extends to all, but in order to make it personall effective, you have to accept it my humbling yourself before your Creator, confess that as a sinner you cannot save yourself, and ask Jesus to save you.
If you do this from a pure and sincere heart, He will! That’s mercy, but He will never force you.
Good questions…
No, I meant what about some random kid born in Africa who all his life has never heard of Jesus? What happens to him?[/quote]
The Bible simply teaches this about it:
(1) Everyone is born a sinner – even the guy in Africa or an Island.
(2) God, through His Creation (called “general revelation”) has given everyone a glimpse of Himself. Just like if someone looks at a painting, he can infer a painter. Just like when someone looks at a building, he can infer a builder. When someone looks at Creation, he should infer a Creator. (Romans 1)
(3) If that person who through general revelation seeks in his heart to find out more about God, God will send someone to tell about His way of salvation.
That is why Romans 1 says that everyone is “without excuse.” Someone truly seeking God will find out about Jesus and salvation so that nobody in that condition will perish eternally.
However, God wants that person to actively seek. If he doesn’t that is not God’s fault, but our own sinful hearts (Psalm 14).
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
doogie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
doogie wrote:
Seriously, steveo, what is the difference between “convert or be beheaded” and “bow or burn”?
I know you addressed this to Steve, but I’d like to say: don’t equate Hanbali Islam with Islam, or Fundamentalist Christianity with Christianity. Every religion has some who are too zealous. When they begin physically harming others, that’s where the line has to be drawn. And Steve’s saying your spirit will die if you don’t accept Christ, while Hanbali Muslims will physically kill you for not converting. That’s quite a difference as God judges one while wackos judge another.
These are really two different things.
HH
What’s more demented? A radical to cutting off your head, or a “loving God” burning your soul for eternity?
Almost all people will do anything to avoid physical pain. The idea of your soul dying is outside of a person’s experience, and is therefore scoffed at by many.
In my interpretation, you have to be a completely evil person, like a Kim Jung Il or Mao, for God to punish you so completely. God will not destroy you forever for not humbling yourself before Jesus; that’s simply too trivial, like cheating on your wife/gf or cheating on a test. Bad things, but not the cause of your doom.
I’m no theologian, but if Steve’s views are truly Christian then I’m not one.
HH
[/quote]
HH,
I appreciate you comments and your honesty. But honestly, can you find even one verse in the Bible that supports your view of only really bad sin is punishable by God?
James 2:10 teaches exactly what Deuteronomy 27:26 teaches and that is this: He who even breaks ONE of God’s commandments, one time is guilty of breaking all of them and therefore is guilty. That is what the Christain (and Jewish) Bibles teach.
Can you find anything in Scripture – after all if you are “Christian” then the teaching must come out of Scripture – that supports your view and thus contradicts the clear teaching as I have shown you?
If you find you are not really saved, you can be. It does take humbling though. That is what God requires. I sincerely hope that you truly find God on His terms and not continue to create a God in your own mind to suit your own tastes.
[quote]vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
You know, they laughted at Noah while he was building the ark. Well, they laughed for awhile. I imagine that they weren’t laughing when Noah and his family were in the boat and the rest of the world was drowning. I guess the laughing stopped, huh?
Ahahahahaha! I love it when assclods take the Noah situation literally. Ahahahaha! Two of every fucking animal! Ahahahahaaha.
[/quote]
Luke 17:26 shows that Jesus Christ believed in the story of Noah and the Flood as LITERAL.
Are you calling Jesus Christ that name? Is He mistaken, Vroom and you are correct?
Not THAT is FUNNY…I’ll take Jesus over you any day.
Bow or Burn, Vroomy – what the Bible teaches!
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
Ahahahahaha! I love it when assclods take the Noah situation literally. Ahahahaha! Two of every fucking animal! Ahahahahaaha.
Luke 17:26 shows that Jesus Christ believed in the story of Noah and the Flood as LITERAL.
Are you calling Jesus Christ that name? Is He mistaken, Vroom and you are correct?[/quote]
That’s hardly fair. In Jesus’ time people didn’t have a good understanding of the results of inbreeding, so we can forgive him. However, in this day and age if you believe that two elephants are a viable population, then you are an assclod.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
orion wrote:
Steveo,
it never appeared to you that an entity that is extremely powerful and demands of us to “bow or burn” is nothing more than a cosmic schoolyard bully?
Has it ever occurred to you that He is God and you are His Creation and You are accountable to Him?
Bow or Burn – that’s what the Bible says. You are we to argue with God?[/quote]
If such a God were human he`d be on par with Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot.
Instead of following him I would rather burn.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Luke 17:26 shows that Jesus Christ believed in the story of Noah and the Flood as LITERAL.
Are you calling Jesus Christ that name? Is He mistaken, Vroom and you are correct?
Not THAT is FUNNY…I’ll take Jesus over you any day.
Bow or Burn, Vroomy – what the Bible teaches![/quote]
Steveo,
I know the science is beyond you, but two of a species indeed is not generally enough to support a strong and viable population.
You had perhaps better reinterpret what Jesus was saying. I am certainly okay with the fact that there may have been a man named Noah who prepared for a regional flood and gathered up that which he could and saved it.
However, to try and pass it off as literally exact just shows how much of a moron you are.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
I’ll burn.
Smitty88 wrote:
It always surprises me how someone can be so sure that there is no God. I mean come on, how can anyone be so sure that there is no God?
What inspires such confidence? Sounds foolhardy to me.
Just as foolhardy as absolute belief in God.[/quote]
What is your position on the God issue?
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
You know, they laughted at Noah while he was building the ark. Well, they laughed for awhile. I imagine that they weren’t laughing when Noah and his family were in the boat and the rest of the world was drowning. I guess the laughing stopped, huh?
Ahahahahaha! I love it when assclods take the Noah situation literally. Ahahahaha! Two of every fucking animal! Ahahahahaaha.
Luke 17:26 shows that Jesus Christ believed in the story of Noah and the Flood as LITERAL.
Are you calling Jesus Christ that name? Is He mistaken, Vroom and you are correct?
Not THAT is FUNNY…I’ll take Jesus over you any day.
Bow or Burn, Vroomy – what the Bible teaches![/quote]
I think there is scientific evidence of a great flood many, many years ago.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Well, you can try to solace yourself by blaming those who follow Christ and His commands. You made a bad decision and are trying to justify that bad decision.
I am a Christian because I have been saved. I am saved through the shed blood of the Lord Jesus – just like the Bible says. I live my life in accord with Scripture, and share my faith actively in obedience to my Lord and Savior.
You can come to Him at anytime, but you have to humble yourself.
“Bow or Burn” – this is a summary of what the Bible teaches. While I might have made up the slogan, it is very Biblical and so I stand upon God’s Word.
[/quote]
You still didn’t answer your question, what gives you the right to judge me. It’s up to god to judge me.
you say I have chosen wrong yet I have sought my faith by speaking to many religous leaders and no one has ever said that I would burn for what I beleive, or that I would have to bow or Burn.
as I said if the only reason your a Christian is to prevent yourself from going to hell its as if your saying that you don’t kill people so you don’t go to jail.
your not a good Christian(so you say) because you love God and believe in his words you are a Christian to avoid Hell.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
HH,
I appreciate you comments and your honesty. But honestly, can you find even one verse in the Bible that supports your view of only really bad sin is punishable by God?
James 2:10 teaches exactly what Deuteronomy 27:26 teaches and that is this: He who even breaks ONE of God’s commandments, one time is guilty of breaking all of them and therefore is guilty. That is what the Christain (and Jewish) Bibles teach.
Can you find anything in Scripture – after all if you are “Christian” then the teaching must come out of Scripture – that supports your view and thus contradicts the clear teaching as I have shown you?
If you find you are not really saved, you can be. It does take humbling though. That is what God requires. I sincerely hope that you truly find God on His terms and not continue to create a God in your own mind to suit your own tastes.
[/quote]
Jesus taught that people are more important than rules, such as when he healed the sick on the Sabbath. His point was that the Jews placed rules above people. It therefore follows that Jesus understood that we are not perfect. Jesus also taught that God is a forgiving God. To earn his eternal wrath, you’d therefore have to do something pretty evil.
Remember, the Bible was written to attract an audience (Spinoza). If you simply said, “An east wind allowed the Hebrews to cross the river.”, you’d lose your audience. Thunder and lightning make good selling points. Read the Bible that way and it’ll make far more sense. It is truth, but dressed up to get converts. Remember that.
HH
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
juninho wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Imbrondir wrote:
I talked to a jehovas wit… um, i mean a friend told me how a friend of his talked to a jehovas witness (who besides being utterly annoying, usually knows alot of the bible). I… um, he asked him how he could believe in a god, with so crystal clear propaganda, that you’ll either go to paradise or burn in hell.
It turns out that neither hell nor satan is really mentioned in the bible (It is a belif that survived from older religion through a latin and a hard to read bible). And the closest verse about the unbeliever in afterlife says something like:
“… and he who won’t believe shall not see, not feel, nor know that he is dead”
Basicly what an atheist believes happens in “afterlife”. Can anybody prove me wrong, and show a verse reciting hell or satan?
How many do you wish? Here are a couple:
[b]
"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." Matthew 18:7-9
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14-15
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hella delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:1-15 [/b]
There are many many others that you can look up yourslef. The Bible teaches about Satan and hell very clearly. It also teaches that if you don’t come to Christ before you die, it is too late.
Hell awaits all who don’t take the free gift of salvation but eternal life awaits those who do. Pretty simple when it comes down to it, I think.
But what about this quote? It seems to back up the original poster and contradict yours:
“turn off thy mind, relax and float down stream, it is not dying.
Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void, it is shining, it is shining.
That you may see the meaning from within, it is being.”
Rev, 14:1-3.
Nice made up verse, but unfortunately not only is it not Rev. 14:1-3, but this is nowhere in the Bible.
The Bible says…Bow or Burn and Rev. 22:18 says not to make things up or we will be even more accountable![/quote]
Busted! Actually, the ‘rev’ in this case stands for ‘Revolver’ - the Beatles album, track 14, (I think), lines 1-3. ‘Tomorrow Never Knows’/.
Who knows though, maybe in 2000 years time Lennon truely will be “bigger than Jesus”, and fire-brand Scousers may be arguing over the true meaning of his words on internet forums like this.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
It is truth, but dressed up to get converts. Remember that.
HH[/quote]
Well, sorry H2, but according to Steveo if you don’t buy his precise “literal” interpretations you are not a real Christian and as such are consigned to hell.
Join the club.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
It is truth, but dressed up to get converts. Remember that.
HH
Well, sorry H2, but according to Steveo if you don’t buy his precise “literal” interpretations you are not a real Christian and as such are consigned to hell.
Join the club.[/quote]
Spinoza got kicked out of his synagogue and shunned for disagreeing with the literalists. Good company! 
H2
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Spinoza got kicked out of his synagogue and shunned for disagreeing with the literalists. Good company!
H2[/quote]
Yes, I see your point. We are being persecuted for our beliefs.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Spinoza got kicked out of his synagogue and shunned for disagreeing with the literalists. Good company!
[/quote]
Spinoza went a bit further than non-literalism… he was essentially an atheist…
Burn, thanks!