Jay Schroeder & Evosport

[quote]hockechamp14 wrote:
beau_zo_brehm wrote:
Ya thanks, this stuff is interesting. I think with Schroeder you have to decide which parts are accurate, and when he’s just being crazy.

Yeah the interview totally blew my mind. They mention somewhere in there one of his athletes attempted a max bench press 40+ times in an hour. Well newsflash, if he can perform 30+ reps of it in an hour, it’s not a max load! But if by max load he meant max velocity, then he’s no better than the football strength coaches he criticizes.[/quote]

Yes, they are using a max load. The idea is to teach your muscles to activate maximally, therefore, you train with a maximal load. Not only are you using a maximal load, you are moving the load at maximal velocity. What sense is there in moving a sub-maximal load multiple times at less than maximum velocity?

If you are applying force in any sport, there is no reason to apply sub-maximal force at a decreased velocity. This type of training focuses on moving maximal loads many times, because that is what you have to do in any given sport.

"listen to jay speak here…

mostshockingsportstraining.com/
jay-shroeder-teleseminar-download.html "

I just listened to this interview and I am not sure what the hell to say…not sure if he is genius or looney. I bring this up because one of the guys he talks about in the interview got picked up by the broncos and his pro day 40 time was not accurate with what jay said he was performing for him in AZ. I think Jay says he was running a 4.51 which is a bit off from his proday results…

“LB Spencer Larson was very impressive as he ran the 40 in 4.82 and 4.83, had a 33½-inch vertical jump, 9-foot, 8-inch long jump, 4.29 short shuttle, 7.37 cone drill, 26 reps at the bench press and ran position drills”

Jay harps on injuries of athletes and how they are getting injured due to lack of prep and positioning yet anyone who has followed Archuleta’s career knows he had had a handful of injuries throughout.

Also he has stated in the past and states that he is a champion powerlifter…does anyone know where he competes or competed? Are there any powerlifters out there who train using his methods and ARP? It seems that if these methods were capable of such unreal results then I assume he is producing some big name powerlifters out of his gym in AZ.

To be clear I am not trying to say he is full of shit, quite the contrary, I feel he seems to really know his shit and I THINK his system sound awesome in terms of what they are capable of achieving and what their approach is but I just wondering what others think of his systems now that more things seem to be presented and that he has done some seminars around the country.

I worked with a guy who uses the Schroeder method and in fact he came and did a seminar here in town. It’s interesting, and I’ve got copies of the 3 different phases that he puts most athletes through, but it takes close to 3-5 years to go through all of the phases.

The one-legged squat is actually performed with one foot elevated about 6-8 inches off of the ground while the other foot is approximately 4-6 inches to the side of the box.

Hips are kept back, as in a normal squatting position, but the weight is going to be slightly shifted to the elevated leg. Hold this position for 5 minutes, or as long as it takes you to complete 5 minutes total time.

To be completely honest I’ve not seen a ton of improvement from athletes utilizing this type of program. The ARP shows a great deal of promise, in several different capacities but the isometric only training I’m not really sold on.

I’ve seen too many athletes come in and get weaker in full range lifts and also not improve enough speed wise to warrant the amount of time and effort that they put into their training. I’ve heard some of the crazy stories about guys dropping off of 6 foot platforms and landing in a lunge position, but what does that show us?

That the guys can drop off of a 6 foot platform and land in a full lunge position. There is more than likely some carryover when it comes to speed of recruitment and neural efficiency, but can’t we achieve the same things with standard training methods with these methods mixed in?

Bump. Just seeing if there’s any more information on this.

jay has a site http://evosport.wordpress.com/

you can ask him questions there

[quote]squattin600 wrote:
jay has a site http://evosport.wordpress.com/

you can ask him questions there[/quote]

wasn’t aware of that. Thanks a bunch!

After checking out Jay’s site, I came up with more questions than answers. But that’s a good thing.

These questions go out to everyone (who can answer them):

  1. Jay mentions 7 iso-extreme positions, but he doesn’t mention how to organize them in training. Do you perform all 7 positions in a single training session? Do you separate them into sessions?

  2. What is the minimal frequency that can yield results? What is the maximal frequency that a person can push without showing signs of overtraining (whatever that means)?

  3. What is the progression for iso-extremes? An untrained (hell, even a trained) person will not be able to hold an isometric contraction for 3 minutes, and yet that’s the magic number that Jay gives. Anything less than 3 minutes does not produce results according to him.

  4. In his interview, Jay mentioned that he got 365-pound women to lose 200 pounds of fat in 6.5-9.5 months by doing iso-extremes. I somehow doubt that 365-pound women were able to hold his iso-extreme positions for the minimum 3 minutes, so wouldn’t lengths of time under three minutes have at least SOME effect?

Maybe he neglected to mention that along with iso-extremes they may have had a gastric bypass? Because losing weight at such a rate by doing isometrics just doesn’t seem realistic.

  1. What is the physiological basis of iso-extremes? Jay says that everyone, no matter whether it’s a man, woman, young or old will ALL start their training with iso-extremes. What about individualization?

Additionally, he says that iso-extremes will increase your vertical jump, lower your 40 yard dash times, make you gain muscle, make you lose fat, increase your 3 powerlifts without actually practicing them, save you money on your car insurance, cure cancer, and make your penis 2 inches longer (okay, maybe not those last 3, but needless to say, I’m skeptical).

What about specificity? How does holding a static position for 3 minutes do all that? Sure, beginners will improve on just about anything, but Jay makes these claims in regards to elite athletes. This one puzzles me the most.

  1. What happens after you can hold an iso-extreme position for 5 minutes? Jay says that at 3 minutes, the results will be excellent, at 4 minutes, the results will be almost unbelievable, and at 5 minutes, they WILL be unbelievable. He also says that anything past 5 minutes does not significantly differ from holding it for just 5 minutes.

So what do you do after those 5 minutes? On the one hand, the logical thing to do would be to add load. On the other hand, Jay mentions in his interview athletes that hold positions for 6.5 minutes, and Adam Archuleta holding a position for 30 minutes. So back to the question. What’s the progression beyond 5 minutes? Increase time, or increase load, or change training methods?

  1. Jay says that his iso-extreme positions should be held at the “greatest joint angle.” What does that mean? The greatest joint angle at the knee is 180. The greatest joint angle at the hip is 180. Does he then recommend holding a “squat” in basically an upright stance? What am I missing here?

  2. What sources have been influential in the development of his training system? He makes continuous references to Russian and Soviet training methods, but he never really mentions specific authors.

I’ve read Verkhoshansky’s, Zatsiorsky’s, Roman’s, and Matveyev’s books. Yes, they talk about isometrics, but never do they mention holding “iso-extremes”, and that’s all you need to become world class. When someone on his site asked him for recommendations on reading material, Jay simply answered with “read everything you can.”

  1. There’s exceptions to every rule. Different techniques and methods have different applications. When would you NOT use iso-extremes with a beginner?

  2. Can you (or should you) use iso-extremes with other exercises besides Jay’s magic 7? Why or why not?

Those are the questions I came up with. I feel that once we can all get the answers there, we can have a more complete perspective of the Evosport system.

If anyone knows the answers or can speculate intelligently, please do so.

Read this. It’s long but it will start to answer your questions.

jsal33

http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=62

[quote]jsal33 wrote:
http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=62[/quote]

I just finished reading this, and it answered a lot of my questions. Furthermore, it confused me a lot, and I got a ton of new questions. That’s good. Thanks for the link!

His can he be reached?

@cjmorro This is a 16 year old thread…