silverback,
it was actually Anatolyi Bondarchuck, the Russian hammer coach, that used the 5:1 ratio of skill to weights.
The 5:1 ratio is true for Hammer throwers, at the high level the technique demands constant driling since it is so dependant on feel. Extremely difficult to be an 80m hammer thrower.
Kelly I think you have a point, but nothing can take place of learning through trial and error what to do and how much to do it,with your strengths/weaknesses identified.
Trench, Andy Bloom is one my Heroes, not only are his athletic capabilties mind blowing, he is a true gentleman, a family man, a teacher and he does everything he can to help out other athletes. There are details of his ideas and training availible on thrwoing sites, unbeleivable work ethic!
During the offseason, he will do sets of 4 in 400 metre sprints keeping each lap to around 70 secs, anyone who’s run 400’s knows that is impressive, but this guy does it at 6’1" and 275lbs
Trench you forgot to mention one his most impressive lifts, setting a bar in the rack quite loww, he sits under it so his thighs are parallel to the ground and then squats it up (ie concentric only squat). Andy does this with 1000lbs!
Throwers are good examples of athletes with superior short acceleration without any specific training (~10 meters or so). The shorter the distance the more relative explosive strength is the main factor. However, with increasing distances qualities other than muscular explosive strength become more important. Each one of these qualities can be addressed or built up in activities other than sprinting- in fact, if there are habits that need to be changed then avoidance of the activity while building up the function might be the best way to change them. I gotta run now…will be back later for more.
Kelly,
Thank you kndly for your insight, please continue to elaborate on your last point when you get a chance.
One more thing, do you feel for a pure explosive athlete (thrower), non-quality work would be counter productive to the development of fast twitch fibres i.e. anything which isn’t performed for maximum fast twitch fibre contraction or recruitment: Maximal/ Max Speed/Rate of force develompment oriented movements such as GPP, bodybuliding or any other low intensity work. Thanks a lot.
Adam Archulea has his own workout tape; you can find it at www.enertiaentertainment.com
I know nothing about
Concentric squats with 1000lbs? I’d like to see that.
The tape offers no quality information. That is another reason why I have problems with Schraedor. I guess it is all about capitalism these days!
invisible the videos are put out by archuletta not schroeder!
70 second 400s are not impressive.
By next week someone will be posting that Andy squats 1500 lbs.
Strength coaches have families, pay bills and need to eat. Next time you want to work for free come to my horse farm.
Have you watched the tapes? Who else is in the video? If your going to associate your name to a product I would make sure it was of some sort of quality!
quote-/One more thing, do you feel for a pure explosive athlete (thrower), non-quality work would be counter productive to the development of fast twitch fibres i.e. anything which isn’t performed for maximum fast twitch fibre contraction or recruitment: Maximal/ Max Speed/Rate of force develompment oriented movements such as GPP, bodybuliding or any other low intensity work. Thanks a lot. /quote
I think in the short term yes, low intensity work is detrimental. However, long term some low intensity, tempo, or work capacity development work is necessary as it will allow one to tolerate more high intensity work and has enough benefits to make up for the negatives. Low intensity work can improve capillarization and blood flow - both of which improve circulation and the recovery from high intensity work which is anti-circulatory. It also stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system. Add all this up and you get improved work capacity. The trick is to develop work capacity and maintain it without causing negative adaptations as you mention. However, initially something has to give so some impacts on absolute peformance can be expected - that’s what a GPP phase is for. The volume necessary to build up general fitness may be detrimental, but remember it takes far less volume to maintain a quality then to increase a quality. After building up general fitness then you can maintain that fitness with far less volume as you transition into SPP and you now have an increased capacity to adapt to all work and can really intensify the specific work.
Kelly,
Thank you so much, thats a fantasic reply. Very good call on the short term versus long term solution.
Rick,
I think even for the average t-man 4 x 400m tempo runs in 70 sec are impressive training times, my point was Andy’s ability to do this at his size.
As for you implying that I was lying about Andy’s concentric squat, that was not nice, I make no assumptions about you.
A while ago, this subject was brought up on 'The Ring’forum (A forum where Andy heavily contributes to), when someone close to Andy mentioned this. Subsequently, Andy did post on the board to confirm that he had indeed done a 1000lb concentric squat from a parallel position.
Please feel free to search the Ring posts.
Thank you and take care
Andy Bloom never said he did a concentric “parallel” squat with 1000 lbs. What he said he did was set the bar so that he was coming up from a position where his thigh was perpendicular with his lower leg. Try squatting down beside a mirror and you will see that you reach this position long before you reach parallel. Still very impressive, but not the same thing.
I am really interested in Coach Davies opinion on this topic as he suggests a realitively high ammount of volume in his programs. Does the ammount of work you prescribe turn out to be detrimental to power output? specifically the high intensity GPP?
Magnolia-Fan.
Thanks for clearing up the Andy B. squat issue!
Although when myself and a lot of lifters I know Squat, the shins are kept perpendicular to the floor. this would give a parallel squat when the thigh and knee angle is 90 deg. BTW this method of squatting allows you to squat for the rest of your life with insignificant shearing stresses on the knee ligaments.
Also I too am a fan of Magnolia great climax to an engrossing film (sorry!)
Very interesting thread…a few quick thoughts…hilarious but maybe true analogy written by CT about the DB Hammer and Schroeder similarity. Come to think about it, alot of genius teachers have a quirk about them or a downright personality flaw. If you can get by that, you can receive some great teaching. Anyway great kudos to the CTs, Silverbacks and Baggetts of the world - excellent advanced information without the usual accompanying arrogance. I also have observed that many times, an authority on a subject will NOT divulge everything. Its a normal response I think to simply’keep an edge’. For ex. - I’m trying to get better at golf. A buddy mentioned a slight swing flaw to me (on hole 18)that helped me on my shot to the green. But I’m sure he noticed it on Hole #1. I am sure this happens everywhere…so I don’t blame Jay for being close to the vest. Except he tends to confuse and top-line everything so that the athlete has to pay the big bucks to understand. My bottom line is that from lifting fast (never knew this till very recently) is without question contributing to being stronger. So, whether its the Bugarian/Russian originators, Westside or Jay, the premise is roughly the same.
NoMojoPin,
This is going to sound silly, but I’ve actually never seen Magnolia. The screen name is kind of a joke from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. Surely someone has gotten the joke, but no one has ever commented on it.
So are you a thrower yourself? I threw shot put and discus in college (52’ 2" and 185’ 5"), but haven’t been able to since then. I sure do miss if from time to time though.
Back again to the original topic. What can one prescribe to build up sprint times without sprinting? The example of throwers and o-lifters is a good example that one doesn’t need to sprint at all to have an awesome start as these guys are some of the fastest athletes in the world over 10-20 yards or so. However, it takes more then the strength qualities of a thrower to run further then 10-20 yards. You need reactive ability.
So break the race up into segments and look where you’re weak. In the 40 yard dash it’s all about the start, acceleration, and maybe top end speed depending on the person but no speed endurance. Look at each part of the race and see where you’re weak and address each. Build up the qualities needed outside of the sprint and then integrate them into your sprint. To a large extent you can do this without sprinting.
The start is all about relative explosive strength and power. Getting stronger will help but the time it takes you to use your strength is more important. There is a correlation between strength per lb of bodyweight and explosive strength but it’s not perfect. You can improve relative explosive strength from either the strength side of the coin or the speed side. Too decide where to focus you can run many tests…a simple one is to look at the time it takes to move heavy and submaximal loads. If you complete a 1rm squat slower then 3.5 seconds start to finish or if your reactive ability with medium range loads and bodyweight is poor it usually means you’re too slow and your time would better be spent focusing on explosive strength by doing exercises like explosive and reactive squats with mid-range loads and bodyweight reactive exercises that strongly engage the hips like altitude squat drops and jumps, lunge jumps, and lunge drops. These will build things up from the speed/power side of the coin.
If you’re fast enough get stronger. Squats, split squats, deadlifts, reverse hypers, glute hams, of varying types of performance coupled with drops to build things up more from the strength side of the coin.
To enhance the starting technique without starting get down into a stance and dive onto a high jump mat with or without a medicine ball or use similar drills. Next the acceleration phase.
Kelly,
Thanks for helping… I am swamped right now… good post.
I agree completely, and I believe CT also spends a great majority of his time in the weightroom, as compared to the field.
Obviously linear acceleration is a single element of most sports, but it is also the element that differentiates most B calibre athletes from A calibre athletes. No one cares how hard you hit if you can’t ever get to the point of attack.
Again, thanks Kelly.
Do you have any new stuff up on your website?
Lil’ Coach H
JR
A few thoughts on the topic:
As Silverback pointed out, it’s great to have a motivated athlete for five years as you can do great things, this normally doesn’t happen.
4.37" FAT time is probably what a top sprinter would post on a 40yds dash, unless there is a way to cheat a little with the combine test, then it would be faster.
From what I read Archuleta’s initial gym strength/power really sucked (273lbs squat in 3.47" at 172lbs!).
A 4.80" FAT 40yds with that kind of gym numbers show a significant potential to lower the time if strength/power is addressed, no matter how.
Of course 0.5" is a HUGE improvement that require a non-conventional approach.
If you want to lift big weights fast (moving the “power bell” peak to the right), a simple recipe is to use CAT and gradually decrease buffer over time with most training percentages on the right of said peak. Power athletes trained this way have a very fast concentric even with 90+% of their 1RM squat.
To Kelly: Throwers are not good example of athletes that run short sprints fast without sprinting, as they DO sprint.
I don’t know how you can maximally improve short sprints without sprinting especially if technique is not there yet, unless your practice is packed with short sprints already…
The CNS rate of firing is not just a matter of being trained to be fast, I guess some people fail on the test day because they get there in a neural overreaching status.
Just my $0.2. I would appreciate if some coach would further comment.
Best,
Carlo Buzzichelli, SSC, PPS, CPT
2003 T&F World Championship Accredited Sprint Coach
2002 Commonwealth Games Accredited Sprint Coach