[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
… you just can’t say that “Japanese people are (blank)” any more than you can say that Americans are (blank). [/quote]
Several years ago, I was asked to give a speech to a group of mid-level managers from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries dealing “Japanese People through the Eyes of a Foreigner.”
Your quote is almost verbatim how I started off. [/quote]
I like that I actually get it. I don’t know the minutia and sub-content extensively, but I get it.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
I unfortunately do not speak well enough to make friends with the common folk easily and for as friendly as Japanese seem to be… [/quote]
This right here tells me you still have a lot, a LOT to learn. And I’m not talking about your lack of language skills.
Chushin knows exactly what I mean.
[/quote]
Amen, brother, amen.
(I thought the same thing when I read what he wrote, BTW.)[/quote]
Okay Quasi, for example, that Japanese “friendliness” is something all new ex-pats feel is one of the given goods of Japanese culture. We just cannot believe how nice the Japanese all are. Stay here long enough and you’ll find that there are exactly as many people here who actually care about you and want to help you as there are in any Western culture, and oftentimes the most friendly Japanese are the least likely to ever allow you to be their real friend, much less let you know a little bit about who they really are.
Japanese already do this to other Japanese outside of their in-group. Why would they treat a foreigner any differently?
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
So pretty much what I’m being told is “don’t bother trying to learn the culture if you’re only here two years.” Just be a bumbling idiot gaijin and go about my ways, I mean that’s what most do right? We all know that you can’t proficiently learn a language - especially in two years - at that level. I studied two years before coming and have had an additional 6 months since being here, I’m not that naive to believe I’ll ever get there.
We are on an internet forum, talking about Japanese people and culture. I would hope that you could at least start somewhere and go forward from there, usually that does occur in a conversation. Otherwise, it leads me to believe, that even if we met for a dinner/whatever you’d still have nothing to share, because it would take too long to do so, in essence there is nothing available for you to teach and nothing available for me to learn.
Seems rather pointless doesn’t it?
And I sincerely think its rather sad that beautiful Japanese girls end up with ugly assed foreigners. I’ve already seen a few in my time here when I do venture to the foreign hubs of Tokyo (like last night in Shinagawa). [/quote]
You’ll figure out whether or not you want to truly understand Japan or you’ll leave without having done so. In the meantime, enjoy the ride and quit sulking. Your questions are being answered. (^_^)
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
So pretty much what I’m being told is “don’t bother trying to learn the culture if you’re only here two years.” Just be a bumbling idiot gaijin and go about my ways, I mean that’s what most do right? We all know that you can’t proficiently learn a language - especially in two years - at that level. I studied two years before coming and have had an additional 6 months since being here, I’m not that naive to believe I’ll ever get there.
We are on an internet forum, talking about Japanese people and culture. I would hope that you could at least start somewhere and go forward from there, usually that does occur in a conversation. Otherwise, it leads me to believe, that even if we met for a dinner/whatever you’d still have nothing to share, because it would take too long to do so, in essence there is nothing available for you to teach and nothing available for me to learn.
Seems rather pointless doesn’t it?
[/quote]
I don’t think that’s what they’re getting at. I think they can explain it you, but any form in which they could articulate would be effectively hollow and without much meaning. Not very adhesive so to speak. I think it just takes time in the first person to truly develop an intimate working understanding that actually evolves your way of life and worldview, a very malleable yet rigid structure.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Ok, indulge my bragging here, but were you still around here when I wrote about meeting the emperor / Miyazawa / Watanabe?[/quote]
Oh, jeez. No, hadn’t heard about that. Do tell.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
So pretty much what I’m being told is “don’t bother trying to learn the culture if you’re only here two years.” Just be a bumbling idiot gaijin and go about my ways, I mean that’s what most do right? We all know that you can’t proficiently learn a language - especially in two years - at that level. I studied two years before coming and have had an additional 6 months since being here, I’m not that naive to believe I’ll ever get there.
We are on an internet forum, talking about Japanese people and culture. I would hope that you could at least start somewhere and go forward from there, usually that does occur in a conversation. Otherwise, it leads me to believe, that even if we met for a dinner/whatever you’d still have nothing to share, because it would take too long to do so, in essence there is nothing available for you to teach and nothing available for me to learn.
Seems rather pointless doesn’t it?
[/quote]
I don’t think that’s what they’re getting at. I think they can explain it you, but any form in which they could articulate would be effectively hollow and without much meaning. Not very adhesive so to speak. I think it just takes time in the first person to truly develop an intimate working understanding that actually evolves your way of life and worldview, a very malleable yet rigid structure.[/quote]
Also, what’s with the impatience, Quasi?
We are sharing some common experience with each other - something that there is not a whole lot of opportunity for.
Slow down, give us a chance, and ask some questions if you like.
But understand that while we’ll be happy to answer, it’s not that we have some burning need to. Explaining this stuff to people who haven’t lived it can be like, well. you teaching me basic engineering. To YOU it’s common sense, and while you might be happy to help me out, it will also be a bit tedious at times. [/quote]
Exactly. Tedious, and not even possible, for the most part.
Quasi, forgive me, but you’re beginning to sound like the new recruit just arriving in-country getting pissed at the old veterans at the bar because they won’t take him step-by-step through all the details of what he has to know to survive in “the shit”.
It’s not that we’re jealously guarding occult knowledge gained after a hard fight (…well, maybe a little), but rather it’s that nobody can tell you. Just like in learning a language, or a martial arts technique, or a new sexual position, you really can’t be told. You have to experience it and figure it out for yourself.
The example that you used is illustrative of what I am talking about: “Japanese people never say ‘no’, it’s impolite.”
Gross oversimplification. Japanese people say no all the time. In business you will often hear “sore ha muri da” (that’s impossible) or “sore ha ima jitai, dekimasen” (we can’t do that now). Even the phrase “kentou sasete itadakimasu” (allow us to think about your proposal) is an obvious “nice no” understood by every Japanese person on the planet, but misunderstood by every gaijin who takes words at face value.
And if you want to find out whether Japanese can say “no”, wait’ll you marry one. The word for “headache” in Japanese is “zutsuu”.
And now for something completely different:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
And if you want to find out whether Japanese can say “no”, wait’ll you marry one. The word for “headache” in Japanese is “zutsuu”.[/quote]
Lol!
[quote]Cortes wrote:
And now for something completely different:
[/quote]
lol I like how the first bit of the video doesn’t have any playback
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Also, what’s with the impatience, Quasi?
We are sharing some common experience with each other - something that there is not a whole lot of opportunity for.
Slow down, give us a chance, and ask some questions if you like.
But understand that while we’ll be happy to answer, it’s not that we have some burning need to. Explaining this stuff to people who haven’t lived it can be like, well. you teaching me basic engineering. To YOU it’s common sense, and while you might be happy to help me out, it will also be a bit tedious at times. [/quote]
Indeed you do not have a burning need to, as you have no actual relationship with me. However as we are on a forum that is built around discussion, sharing, and helping one another I suppose I jumped the gun in hoping similar might occur in this case. After all, my good friend back home was quite excited to see someone interested in the culture he became a part of, and I assumed similar for you all.
I may not have lived it, but I am living it. Every day. Just like I teach English every week, it would be far easier if they already understood the language before I taught them, but I do it because they want to learn and however poor a teacher I am, I still give it a shot. And you’re right, I could not teach you easily the intracacies of the different pitch, angle, and twist of an impeller blade or why you need ‘x’ number of stages to change the pressure ‘y’ value, but I could easily explain how a compressor works with real-world examples.
Anywho, I confirm and concede that is a lot to write in a forum post. Much like me trying to explain a basic engineering concept might be easy but it still takes time and space. A lot to invest in a stranger.
You’re also right, you guys don’t often have the opportunity to reflect on your past experiences and share them with one another. By all means, please do so, I certainly de-railed this thread and will allow it to get back to its original intent. I will check back in as the stories are shared to enjoy and reflect on my own experiences - though not with the emperor :P. Its cool none-the-less to know there are, or were other ex-pats on this forum!
Since at least a couple of you here are already onto Friday afternoon like me, I wish you a good weekend. Golden Week is on its way!
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Golden Week is on its way![/quote]
Well now I knew there was a time difference, but I didn’t know it was that extreme!
[quote]Cortes wrote:
And now for something completely different:
[/quote]
Oh shit. You’ve just reminded me of the funniest advertisement I ever saw in a Japanese newspaper, that was intending to be funny. I could just describe the ad, and three people would laugh, but it may be more instructive to describe it in such a way that everyone can at least understand the joke, and in this way illustrate what is involved in teaching cultural nuances.
Okay, so first off, you have to know that “akemashite omedetou gozaimasu” is how you wish someone a Happy New Year in Japan.
Next, you have to know that there is a whole class of foods called osechi-ryori, which is traditionally eaten around the New Year’s celebration (osho-gatsu). Among these foods are herring roe (kazunoko), sweet black beans (kuromame), and sweet chestnut paste (kurikinton).
With me so far? Okay. So on New Year’s Day, 1999, I open up the newspaper to find a full-page color ad with the following headline:
Akemashite omedetou gozaimasu.
Kazunoko. Kuromame. Kurikinton.
Below this headline is a large photo of a Pachinko parlor sign, displaying the name of the establishment, “Pachinko Daitoryo”. Only thing was, the “PA” in the word “Pachinko” was not illuminated, so it just said “CHINKO”.
What you now have to know is that “chinko” is a vulgar slang word for “penis”, and that “daitoryo” means “president”.
Also, it might help to know that kurikinton sounds tantalizingly close to the Japanese pronunciation “Clinton”, and that January 1999 was right in the middle of the Lewinski scandal.
So what we had was a Japanese national newspaper running a full-page ad that essentially says “Clinton: President Prick”.
I always wonder what the boys in the American Embassy thought about this, and if the President was ever told, and how they explained it to him.