I believe in God. I even believe miracles may have hapened in my life.
But I also beleive it is best to be slightly skeptical. Here is some maths
the probability of guessing all the right questions on a multiple choice test with 4 options is
(1/4)^(number of questions on the test)
the probability of it happening twice is
((1/4)^(number of questions on the test))^2
given that the test had new questions the second time. Call this very small number P
call n the total number of janitors in the world ever, then the probability of this story happening once or more is:
the sum for values of r from 1 to n, of nCr P^r times (1-P)^(n-r)
because n is so vastly large the overall probability is not that small, even if we use conservative estimates for all the value.
I am not saying that its not a miracle, I am just saying that coincidences happen. If one or the other changes your life, thats great, but it shouldn’t be the basis for evangelism. If something can be disputed with a small amount of high school maths it probably isn’t a sure foundation for someones faith.
How do you know he actually can’t read and is just faking that he couldn’t. I don’t put a question mark because it’s a rhetorical question, he obviously taught himself to read but just pretended not to. What would a “supervisor test” consist of? How could he have been promoted so many times and still function without picking up the ability to read?
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
Or cause he hates his own kids
[/quote]
No one who sends their only son to die for our sins hates us.
[quote]Eli B wrote:
wtf is a production operator? That sounds like resume for janitor to me. If you had watched the embed youda seen he says passed through school too. So while I agree this is BS you havent uncovered the evidence.
full on drunk now.[/quote]
Touche, good sir. I also had a few drinks when I posted here originally. But I still think this pastor is one of those people exaggerating his life story to make it more marketable. I’ll find better evidence some other time.
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
yea… so god let’s sick innocent children wallow because of their lack of faith? This is essentially the argument you are presenting. I’m not attacking god. Just your weak argument.
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
Or cause he hates his own kids
[/quote]
No one who sends their only son to die for our sins hates us.[/quote]
Too bad his son was immortal, he could have died a thousand times and it would not have made a difference.
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
yea… so god let’s sick innocent children wallow because of their lack of faith? This is essentially the argument you are presenting. I’m not attacking god. Just your weak argument.[/quote]
I guess you’re not paying attention huh? That’s pretty common around here.
The poster said:
My response to him based only on what he posted was:
Now tell me what does that have to do with children? Nothing, not one single thing. Do you see the words “other people” in there? Do you? Go back and look, good boy. Now does that necessarily mean all other people? Does it mean all children? No. You took the ball and ran with it, unfortunately it was in the exact wrong direction.
Thanks for your attention, before you respond, and you will respond, think first.
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
Or cause he hates his own kids
[/quote]
No one who sends their only son to die for our sins hates us.[/quote]
Too bad his son was immortal, he could have died a thousand times and it would not have made a difference.
[/quote]
For those of us who have accepted his great sacrifice it’s made all the difference in the world. And he only needed to do it once.
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
yea… so god let’s sick innocent children wallow because of their lack of faith? This is essentially the argument you are presenting. I’m not attacking god. Just your weak argument.[/quote]
I guess you’re not paying attention huh? That’s pretty common around here.
The poster said:
My response to him based only on what he posted was:
Now tell me what does that have to do with children? Nothing, not one single thing. Do you see the words “other people” in there? Do you? Go back and look, good boy. Now does that necessarily mean all other people? Does it mean all children? No. You took the ball and ran with it, unfortunately it was in the exact wrong direction.
Thanks for your attention, before you respond, and you will respond, think first.[/quote]
Granted I know there is no point in discussing this with you. Yes, I do read. And yes, there is nothing in there about children. So what? Your argument that you put out was that god let “PEOPLE” wallow due to their lack of faith. And in fact, if you were paying attention to the original poster, it does say, “OTHER PEOPLE”. Now , before you try talking down to me because your logic is on par with a middle school student , please present your arguments better. Furthermore , the only thing I have done wrong was to post in such an inane and useless thread.
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
yea… so god let’s sick innocent children wallow because of their lack of faith? This is essentially the argument you are presenting. I’m not attacking god. Just your weak argument.[/quote]
I guess you’re not paying attention huh? That’s pretty common around here.
The poster said:
My response to him based only on what he posted was:
Now tell me what does that have to do with children? Nothing, not one single thing. Do you see the words “other people” in there? Do you? Go back and look, good boy. Now does that necessarily mean all other people? Does it mean all children? No. You took the ball and ran with it, unfortunately it was in the exact wrong direction.
Thanks for your attention, before you respond, and you will respond, think first.[/quote]
Granted I know there is no point in discussing this with you. Yes, I do read. And yes, there is nothing in there about children. So what? Your argument that you put out was that god let “PEOPLE” wallow due to their lack of faith. And in fact, if you were paying attention to the original poster, it does say, “OTHER PEOPLE”. Now , before you try talking down to me because your logic is on par with a middle school student , please present your arguments better. Furthermore , the only thing I have done wrong was to post in such an inane and useless thread.
[/quote]
The suggestion that some people “wallow” because of lack of faith is a good one, and in case you havn’t noticed not a new concept. Again, the fact that some suffer for apparently no reason has nothing to do with it as I never claimed otherwise. I never made the sweeping conclusion that the ONLY way people wallow is if they have a lack of faith. But, well, you didn’t catch that junior.
An adult with even an average IQ would not have jumped in the thread and assumed what you did.
The fact that you’ve been taught a logic lesson by someone who is in your opinion on par with a middle school student must be embarrassing. No? Or have you not reached the maturity level in your life where you feel shame yet Sparky?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I have no idea regarding the credibility of this particular story. However, those who put God in a box and limit his power and authority by claiming he only works in certain ways are very mistaken. I’ve had miracles in my life that can only be attributed to God and I will never say that God is incapable of working through this, or any other person, any way that he wants.[/quote]
you mean, someone’s limb grew back? not THAT would be a miracle i would find hard to argue with.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I never understood how someone can believe in something as illogical as christianity, or any organized religion really.[/quote]
And I’ve never understood how people can believe that random gases, cosmic events, and evolution has allowed the earth and people and things on it to flourish in perfect distance between the sun and the moon. If none of this was created perfectly for us, earth and the life that is on it was the greatest accident in the history of existence. Just think about no earth, no sun, no moon and try to figure out where this all came about. I think it’s actually illogical to think it was “scientific” and not God-made.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I have no idea regarding the credibility of this particular story. However, those who put God in a box and limit his power and authority by claiming he only works in certain ways are very mistaken. I’ve had miracles in my life that can only be attributed to God and I will never say that God is incapable of working through this, or any other person, any way that he wants.[/quote]
you mean, someone’s limb grew back? not THAT would be a miracle i would find hard to argue with.[/quote]
I personally saw a man with a gimp limb (not amputated or missing but disabled and gimp) grow to a full functional limb. It was a miracle right in front of several peoples eyes during prayer. Most remarkable experience of my life. People can call me a liar, or like always try to come up with something scientific, but it was as real a miracle as there is.
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
Or cause he hates his own kids
[/quote]
No one who sends their only son to die for our sins hates us.[/quote]
Too bad his son was immortal, he could have died a thousand times and it would not have made a difference.
[/quote]
For those of us who have accepted his great sacrifice it’s made all the difference in the world. And he only needed to do it once.
[/quote]
Accepted his great sacrifice? I am not all that knowledgeable on the religious view of Christianity but Christ sacrificed his life because some snake told some woman to eat an apple a very long time ago correct?
Why did god put the tree to tempt Adam and Eve? It’s like giving the keys to the Bentley and saying don’t drive it. Why din’t god protect his precious children from the snake when it entered the garden?
How come god does not speak to people anymore? (none of the made up stuff the priests are sputtering). How come people are not handed large blocks of stone from a top of mountains with commandments? Where is Christ now? 2,000 years is a very very long time to wait for someone to save you.
I am not trying to put your religious views down but some simple questions like these seem to go by unanswered. Heck I will sacrifice myself for the heck of it if I can come back. There is no historical fact that Christ was even real.
I believe people like to think there is someone watching over their every move and thought, instead of taking responsibility for their own good/bad circumstances.
[quote]huz wrote:
I heard it works this way. God helps dudes like this, because it makes a cool story, but let’s other people wallow in shit because it’s a bland, boring story with no commercial value down the line. It’s marketing 101 and God has a phd…[/quote]
Or lets them wallow because of their lack of faith.[/quote]
Or cause he hates his own kids
[/quote]
No one who sends their only son to die for our sins hates us.[/quote]
Too bad his son was immortal, he could have died a thousand times and it would not have made a difference.
[/quote]
For those of us who have accepted his great sacrifice it’s made all the difference in the world. And he only needed to do it once.
[/quote]
Accepted his great sacrifice? I am not all that knowledgeable on the religious view of Christianity but Christ sacrificed his life because some snake told some woman to eat an apple a very long time ago correct?
Why did god put the tree to tempt Adam and Eve? It’s like giving the keys to the Bentley and saying don’t drive it. Why din’t god protect his precious children from the snake when it entered the garden?
How come god does not speak to people anymore? (none of the made up stuff the priests are sputtering). How come people are not handed large blocks of stone from a top of mountains with commandments? Where is Christ now? 2,000 years is a very very long time to wait for someone to save you.
I am not trying to put your religious views down but some simple questions like these seem to go by unanswered. Heck I will sacrifice myself for the heck of it if I can come back. There is no historical fact that Christ was even real.
I believe people like to think there is someone watching over their every move and thought, instead of taking responsibility for their own good/bad circumstances. [/quote]
I’m not gonna get into any of your questions because you say you’re not putting anyone’s religious views down when your entire reply was clearly sarcastic and pithy, but I have to comment on your comment about Christs existence. I’ve heard several times now on this board, posters saying there is no historical facts about Jesus. That is the most completely ignorant statement that I continue to hear.
Jesus’s life is as historical and documented as any other famous person in history. Atilla the Hun, Muhammed of the Muslim faith, Alexander the Great, Hipparchus the Greek astronomer, on and on and on. It is a fact that Jesus was born in Nazareth from the bloodlines of Judah and he was crucified in Jerusalem because he was becoming a powerful figure and people were calling him King of the Jews. The Romans obviously didn’t like that too much and neither did the Sanhedrin. Now you don’t have to believe that Jesus was anything other than a man but the historical denials are out of plain ignorance of historical fact.
Why did god put the tree to tempt Adam and Eve? It’s like giving the keys to the Bentley and saying don’t drive it. Why din’t god protect his precious children from the snake when it entered the garden?[/quote]
It’s called “free will”. If God had removed everything that was tempting then man could not have exercised his free will to sin. If man had loved God more than his own desire to disobey then there would have been no fall.
The best religious minds (hint, not me) in the world say that we now live in an age of faith. I can see their reasoning since Christs great sacrifice.
Mosses already did that remember? When Christ came to earth to make his great sacrifice he superceded those commandments and everything else up to that point. That isn’t to say that you can break the commandments of course.
You are actually talking about two different things I think. Firstly, you are commenting on why Christ has not yet returned, true? If so I cannot give you an answer and neither could Christ! In fact in the Bible Christ himself says that “only the father knows the hour of his return”.
Secondly, you mentioned 2000 years is a long time to wait to be saved, true? The fact is anyone who has accepted Jesus Christ’s great sacrifice on the cross as attonement for their own personal sin (past, present and future) is saved.
Being saved simply means that you get to avoid that whole messy hell thingy where you burn for etenrity, and yes it will happen. Bottom line anyone who has accept Christ from that point forward and is now bodily dead is in fact in heaven and “saved”.
Not to worry, many on T Nation put down Christianity, I’m used to it by now. When you are in your 20’s and you’ve been enlightened by the latest college professor (most T-Nation members) and can lift mountains and pay homage to the latest science a disregard for Christianity is usually not far behind.
Add to that being a few dollars ahead and you almost have a perfect storm for rejecting Christianity.
But I’m not the least offended don’t worry about it.
Well, I’ve tried to answer them, but I feel you got cheated because I am far from an expert on these matters, so I’m sorry I probably left you with more questions. Why don’t you visit a good Christian web site and ask their people the same questions. If nothing else they will be able to explain things far better than I’m able.
Please don’t make me pull out the exhaustive research that I’ve done regarding Christ as an historical figure. He absolutely lived that is a fact!
Whether someone is watching over your every move matters little, you’re still responsible for your actions and will be held personally accountable someday for every action and even every word uttered.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I never understood how someone can believe in something as illogical as christianity, or any organized religion really.[/quote]
And I’ve never understood how people can believe that random gases, cosmic events, and evolution has allowed the earth and people and things on it to flourish in perfect distance between the sun and the moon. If none of this was created perfectly for us, earth and the life that is on it was the greatest accident in the history of existence.
Just think about no earth, no sun, no moon and try to figure out where this all came about. I think it’s actually illogical to think it was “scientific” and not God-made.[/quote]
So you’re saying God is a kid with an ant farm. We’re clearly in capable hands…