[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes Horiuchi graduated from West Point and he was in the Army for 8 years; however, he was in the FBI for nearly double that time, 15 years, and from what I can gather was trained by the FBI as a sniper. Further, Horiuchi’s actions are the exact opposite of what is taught in the military.
[/quote]
Right man, yes. This is my point, right here, your last line seals it.
He did the very opposite of what he was supposed to do in almost every single way imaginable. There are bad people in this world, and some wear uniforms. There are in fact soldiers that would give and follow the order to do the unthinkable.
That’s all I’m saying. [/quote]
I understand. Now try and see it from my perspective. If I’m understanding you correctly you are essentially saying because there are bad apples in every organization, we can’t trust the institution as a whole to do what that institution is designed to do. That is, support and defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic, in this case. Fair enough?[/quote]
I’m saying we can’t trust that government, any government is going to be benevolent for any period of time, and the unfortunate fact is, the military takes orders from that government.
Luckily, our military takes an oath and is volunteer, which lends itself to be self policing against the unthinkable. Which, without this post turning into a novel, just requires the evil men in government to frame the issue differently.
No I don’t think JH is some massive conspiracy to take over Texas, but neither do I have an issue with people being concerned given the nature of the leaked info, and the general lack of transparent response from the government about it at first. Since 9/11 the government has pulled some seriously heinous shit, so people being on edge isn’t a surprise.
Do I think Generals will turn around tomorrow and order the slaughter of American Citizens in rural areas of the continental United States? No, not by a long shot. And I’d venture to guess the man that did such a thing would be shot more likely than followed.
However, do I think those same soldiers would eliminate a terrorist threat, foreign or domestic in rural areas of the continental United States? Yup. And I’m thankful for that. However, one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
My main issue is it comes down to the notion of “is the US truly exceptional to the point of, we will buck the historical precedence and NOT devolve into a collectivist totalitarian shit hole nation?”. And people worried the answer to that question may be “no, we aren’t that exceptional” are called all sorts of names, and apparently insulting to Vets because we ARE worried that evil men DO have control within our government.
Because let’s face it. The great experiment was the most self limited and controlled government the world has ever known… And what are we today? The largest, most powerful and influential government the world has even known, and the argument could be made that we are the largest, most advanced empire the world has ever knows.
I’m not intending to insult the military. I’m intending to ask an uncomfortable question, which the lack of answer from those calling me (or others names) is rather disturbing. Shit, people that fancy themselves well versed on the topic completely “dismiss” the question, which in turn means the questions need to be asked with even further expediency.
Honest question, if faced with the choice of execute this American Citizen or be shot yourself, what percentage of the people you served with you take that bullet?
Then answer it like this: If faced with the order of “drone strike this citizen” or be court marshaled. How many would drop the bomb?
Then answer it like this: violate the (pick a number) amendment rights of these citizens or be fired, how many would be unemployed?
The point being, at what degree of “wrong” does the line in the sand get drawn?
[quote]You’re using Horiuchi as an example as to why. My point, in this case, is that it’s a terrible example.
Let me put it differently:
Beans CPA, got licensed by the AICPA in 1976. He practiced public accounting until 1984 at which time he becomes a corporate accountant for Bank of America. In 1999, Beans committed a material act of fraud that ruined hundreds of lives and cost tax payers millions.
Usmc: "How can I possibly justify placing faith in the institution of the AICPA. I mean, They licensed Bean’s and verified that he understood GAAP, ethics, etc… and look at what he did. He knew better then to commit fraud, yet he still did it.
Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
[/quote]
It’s not ridiculous at all. Why do you think GAAP is now rule based and not principle based like IFRS? Why do you think there is government oversight like PCOB? We watch and regulate across all industries.
