[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]AzCats wrote:
Illegal Drugs (cocaine, heroin, marijuana, and methamphetamine) = 15,000-20,000 deaths per year
Legal Drugs (Tylenol, advil, aspirin and so on) = 106,000 deaths per year
Steroids (legal in many countries) = 0 (zero) deaths per year
You be the judge![/quote]
another falsehood.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/2008/06/28/2008-06-28_news_examines_relationship_between_stero.html
There are also articles that downplay this, but they come from BB sites. It’s like citing Freud’s Cocaine Papers as evidence that cocaine is good or citing High Times as evidence that weed doesn’t cause severe lung and heart damage.[/quote]
I dont want to completely derail this thread, because this is actually the most interesting discussion on this site in a while - mostly because it’s not everyone patting one another on the back and agreeing.
But to post that article as “proof” of a link between steroids and death is disingenuous at best. I haven’t even finished the article, but the VERY FIRST case they present is of a young NFL prospect who died of heart failure. While they present good circumstantial evidence (the bacteriostatic water and arimidex) of his use of steroids, you are COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that he was apparently INJECTING liquid viagra.
http://www.psa-rising.com/medicalpike/viagracardiodeaths031500.htm
"Viagra, commonly prescribed by doctors to treat male erectile dysfunction, is turning up too often at the scene of heart attack death in relatively young men. Some men may be vulnerable to heart attack after taking this drug, made by Pfizer. That is not known, but the drug itself is beginning to look like more than a bystander in the deaths.
Some men who have died after taking Viagra were elderly and on heart medication. But a study reported March 14 finds that more men who have died were under age sixty-five. Most of the deaths have occurred within a few hours of taking the drug. Most of the men took the standard dose. Most of the men had no reported heart problems. Although some men who died were taking nitrates as well as Viagra, men who were not taking nitrates died at a higher rate. "
Come on man, I am as interested in an honest discussion as the next guy, but supposition and weak leaps of logic do not advance your argument in the slightest
this on the other hand
[quote]Someone suggested I do some research on steroids. Here is a quote from a steroid abuse expert and a well-respected doctor in his field, according to the research I performed.
“For males in the U.S., heart disease is the number one cause of death, and steroid abuse makes heart disease even worse,” stressed Dr. Linn Goldberg, a professor at Oregon Health Sciences University, and an expert on steroid abuse.
I understand that steroid abuse in and of itself may not cause death, but it can certainly exacerbate the effects of other behaviors harmful to the heart’s health.
As for “mental addiction”, I fully understand that those who are predisposed to addictive behavior are likely to abuse drugs and that this does not mean that every single behavior that can become psychologically addictive will lead to abuse by everybody. I’m not demonizing sex or eating or running, I’m simply pointing out that someone who does take these behaviors to extremes can suffer as a result. Someone with an addictive personality is certainly capable of abusing steroids to the point of harm. Does it happen often and are there other aspects involved? No and yes. But there are numerous studies that show that steroid abuse can lead to heart problems. Does this happen on the same level as cocaine abuse: no, but it does happen. I’m not trying to say that cocaine and steroid abuse are on an equal level, but steroids can most certainly be abused.
Steroids can be used responsibly without withdrawal symptoms and I don’t think there is any way to “responsibly” use cocaine. But someone who is predisposed to addictive behavior and uses steroids is a prime candidate to become that .01% who suffers drastically from it as a result. If I gave the impression that I believe cocaine abuse and steroid abuse are equally problematic, my mistake; that wasn’t where I was going. But don’t try to tell me that steroid use is 100% safe for all grown men to use in any way, shape or form.[/quote]
Is a much more solid argument and raises good points