[quote]Marzouk wrote:
One of Israel’s weapon defense systems is called ‘David’s Sling’ this has gota be a joke right? Yeah coz Gaza is a Goliath…[/quote]
Well when it comes to numbers Muslims out number Jews significantly.
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Fuck Israel
/Thread[/quote]
True colors, shown.[/quote]
What colors are them?[/quote]
Anti-Semitic
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Fuck Israel
/Thread[/quote]
True colors, shown.[/quote]
What colors are them?[/quote]
Anti-Semitic [/quote]
No not really, i have nothing against Jews, It the Israeli Government that i don’t like. 2 different things.
Cool article from the War Nerd, mostly deals with Gaza, but also mentions the Petraeus affair.
Basically, his argument is that attacking Gaza Israel is basically just taking out the frustration over not being able to handle Hezbollah in the north.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I don’t remember the Spaniards tearing out the hearts of thousands of their own young men for appeasement to one of their imaginary gods.[/quote]
I seem to remember the Spaniards burning thousands at the stake in the name of their imaginary God.[/quote]
Why do you think the Spaniards burned thousands at the stake? And, why do you think they believed in an imaginary God?[/quote]
A) The Inquisition, of which I’m sure you’re aware and B) for the same reasons that you think the Pagans believed in one[/quote]
Please post a source that shows thousands of people were burned at the stake.
Because there is only one God? That doesn’t make sense. And, that doesn’t answer the real question of how you know that these “thousands” we’re burned at the stake in the name of Jesus? …who was surely not imaginary and was in fact a real person, in account of many witnesses of his Life, Death, and Resurrection. [/quote]
I don’t think Jesus was imaginary, I think his divinity is imaginary.
Anyways, in the interest of intellectual honesty, I’ll give you the lowest credible estimate:
2,000 counts as thousands, so there’s the proof you requested.
Keep in mind that most scholars peg the number much higher than 2,000, and that’s not including those who died in the miserable prison squalor before or after being processed. If they too were counted we’d likely be talking about tens of thousands.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I don’t remember the Spaniards tearing out the hearts of thousands of their own young men for appeasement to one of their imaginary gods.[/quote]
I seem to remember the Spaniards burning thousands at the stake in the name of their imaginary God.[/quote]
Why do you think the Spaniards burned thousands at the stake? And, why do you think they believed in an imaginary God?[/quote]
A) The Inquisition, of which I’m sure you’re aware and B) for the same reasons that you think the Pagans believed in one[/quote]
Please post a source that shows thousands of people were burned at the stake.
Because there is only one God? That doesn’t make sense. And, that doesn’t answer the real question of how you know that these “thousands” we’re burned at the stake in the name of Jesus? …who was surely not imaginary and was in fact a real person, in account of many witnesses of his Life, Death, and Resurrection. [/quote]
I don’t think Jesus was imaginary, I think his divinity is imaginary.
Anyways, in the interest of intellectual honesty, I’ll give you the lowest credible estimate:
2,000 counts as thousands, so there’s the proof you requested.
Keep in mind that most scholars peg the number much higher than 2,000, and that’s not including those who died in the miserable prison squalor before or after being processed. If they too were counted we’d likely be talking about tens of thousands.
[/quote]
The Spanish Inquisition was run by Isabel and Ferdinand, Pope Sixtus while initially giving his blessing, balked at the methods used. When discovered he tried to move the tribunals under Papal authority giving all due rights and process to the acused, but the Spanish balked, and told him to stick it.
The one thing is certain about the Spanish Inquisition, it’s the stuff of legend more than fact. And while it tended to be quite nasty, it was under the authority of the Crown and not the church.
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0075.html
[quote]pat wrote:
The Spanish Inquisition was run by Isabel and Ferdinand, Pope Sixtus while initially giving his blessing, balked at the methods used. When discovered he tried to move the tribunals under Papal authority giving all due rights and process to the acused, but the Spanish balked, and told him to stick it.
The one thing is certain about the Spanish Inquisition, it’s the stuff of legend more than fact. And while it tended to be quite nasty, it was under the authority of the Crown and not the church.
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0075.html[/quote]
“Balking at methods used” doesn’t qualify as grounds for exculpation in my view.
John Paul II felt that his Church had been complicit enough to warrant an apology–universally understood to refer to the Crusades and Inquisition–at the turn of the millennium. And then four years later to write this: http://www.zenit.org/article-10371?l=english
As an aside, I do know that much talk of the Inquisition is overblown. I will note however that the estimate I provided above–2,000–is on the extremely low end of figures proposed by credible historians. The original point was that thousands had been killed by the Catholic Church, and the point stands. I’ll throw the Crusades into the mix as well.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
…I’ll throw the Crusades into the mix as well.[/quote]
Why?[/quote]
Because the point was about people killed by the Church.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
…I’ll throw the Crusades into the mix as well.[/quote]
Why?[/quote]
Because the point was about people killed by the Church.[/quote]
Well if you’re speaking of people killed by the church the Crusades would not necessarily be inclusive in the context of which we were speaking.
The Crusades were a series of wars with Muslims who in turn did their own torturing and killing. Those who suffered under the Inquisition were not enemy combatants engaged in a geo-political conflict.
There is a difference.[/quote]
Not all of those murdered in the crusades were “enemy combatants.” Far from it.
Thousands of innocent men, women, and children died simply because they worshiped the same God by a different name. Christianity has plenty of blood on its hands, along with Islam, Judaism, and Communism. I don’t say atheism because in the Soviet Union the reality was more in line with Political religion.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
…I’ll throw the Crusades into the mix as well.[/quote]
Why?[/quote]
Because the point was about people killed by the Church.[/quote]
Well if you’re speaking of people killed by the church the Crusades would not necessarily be inclusive in the context of which we were speaking.
The Crusades were a series of wars with Muslims who in turn did their own torturing and killing. Those who suffered under the Inquisition were not enemy combatants engaged in a geo-political conflict.
There is a difference.[/quote]
True, there a distinction. Though, every casualty incurred during the sack of Constantinople falls into the category of the persecuted (the Pope did condemn that particular excursion, but I doubt that did much to comfort the families of the dead).
[quote]loppar wrote:
Cool article from the War Nerd, mostly deals with Gaza, but also mentions the Petraeus affair.
Basically, his argument is that attacking Gaza Israel is basically just taking out the frustration over not being able to handle Hezbollah in the north.
http://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/lucian-truscott-iv[/quote]
Hamas has literally shot thousands of rockets into Israel in 2012. I would say they attack Hamas because Hamas regularly attacks them, Hamas just so happens to be located in Gaza and controls Gaza. What he proposes just makes no sense.
[quote]b89 wrote:
[quote]loppar wrote:
Cool article from the War Nerd, mostly deals with Gaza, but also mentions the Petraeus affair.
Basically, his argument is that attacking Gaza Israel is basically just taking out the frustration over not being able to handle Hezbollah in the north.
http://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/lucian-truscott-iv[/quote]
Hamas has literally shot thousands of rockets into Israel in 2012. I would say they attack Hamas because Hamas regularly attacks them, Hamas just so happens to be located in Gaza and controls Gaza. What he proposes just makes no sense.[/quote]
From the article:
“Between Nov. 11 and Nov. 13, there was something close to all quiet on the Gaza front. Then on Nov. 14 Israel killed the military commander of Hamas, Ahmad Al Jabari.”
Facts:
November 11: “Gazan groups fired over 100 rockets and mortars at Israeli cities and towns. A barrage against Sderot, timed to coincide with the morning commute to work, injured 3 people. One victim, physical education teacher Moshik Levy, was moderately wounded by shrapnel and glass from his car windshield which exploded in his face. A fourth person was injured while fleeing for cover, and five more people were treated for acute stress reaction. Two homes, one in Sderot and one in the Eshkol Regional Council, were damaged by direct rocket hits.”
November 12: “Gaza gunmen fired nine rockets at southern Israel. Seven rockets were fired at the Negev region and two towards Ashkelon.”
Yeah, real cool article. The author invents a two day lull where there was none during almost daily rocket attacks over a period of more than decade.
From the article:
“The simplest answer is: you don’t want a truce. And it may be that simple: Israel wants Gaza as a punching bag”
Yeah that makes sense! Hamas wants a truce but Israel doesn’t. To be sure. Hamas only fired 109+ rockets on November 11 and 12 so Israel should’ve cancelled Operation Pillar of Defense and worked on another Hamas “truce.” After all, they’ve always worked so well in the past haven’t they? Good grief what utter crap.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
One of Israel’s weapon defense systems is called ‘David’s Sling’ this has gota be a joke right? Yeah coz Gaza is a Goliath…[/quote]
Well when it comes to numbers Muslims out number Jews significantly.[/quote]
It’s also a defensive weapon - a misssle defense system.[/quote]
Okay. I’m not quite sure what your point is?
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I don’t remember the Spaniards tearing out the hearts of thousands of their own young men for appeasement to one of their imaginary gods.[/quote]
I seem to remember the Spaniards burning thousands at the stake in the name of their imaginary God.[/quote]
Why do you think the Spaniards burned thousands at the stake? And, why do you think they believed in an imaginary God?[/quote]
A) The Inquisition, of which I’m sure you’re aware and B) for the same reasons that you think the Pagans believed in one[/quote]
Please post a source that shows thousands of people were burned at the stake.
Because there is only one God? That doesn’t make sense. And, that doesn’t answer the real question of how you know that these “thousands” we’re burned at the stake in the name of Jesus? …who was surely not imaginary and was in fact a real person, in account of many witnesses of his Life, Death, and Resurrection. [/quote]
I don’t think Jesus was imaginary, I think his divinity is imaginary.
Anyways, in the interest of intellectual honesty, I’ll give you the lowest credible estimate:
2,000 counts as thousands, so there’s the proof you requested.
Keep in mind that most scholars peg the number much higher than 2,000, and that’s not including those who died in the miserable prison squalor before or after being processed. If they too were counted we’d likely be talking about tens of thousands.
[/quote]
I’ll be glad when the rest of the Black Legend goes away.
I’d be interested how your source says 250 people were burned, then we’re going to multiple it 5 times, then multiple it by 2. Anyway. 3000 to 5000 people were killed in the inquisition. The fact that the archives are in Latin makes it difficult for me to study them, however from footnotes along I’m not really sure the method of killing. However, I’d like to point out that the Inquisition had a definite secular characteristic. Yes, the crime is heresy, Inquisitors were not always clerics, they were more to the end (also when things like a defense attorney, testimony under oath, appeals to higher court, unus testis nullus testis, no uncorroborated testimony, and public defender for the underprivileged were introduced) when things were more lenient towards heretics. I’d also point out that the starters of the Inquisition were Isabella and Ferdinand, who believed that a religious unity would lead to a political unity within a united Spain.
So, I’m sure you can claim that Spaniards, in the name of Jesus, killed 3000 to 5000 of their own. But, it would be disingenuous. It was not Spaniards, but the Monarch of Spain playing God for political reasons.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
The Spanish Inquisition was run by Isabel and Ferdinand, Pope Sixtus while initially giving his blessing, balked at the methods used. When discovered he tried to move the tribunals under Papal authority giving all due rights and process to the acused, but the Spanish balked, and told him to stick it.
The one thing is certain about the Spanish Inquisition, it’s the stuff of legend more than fact. And while it tended to be quite nasty, it was under the authority of the Crown and not the church.
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0075.html[/quote]
“Balking at methods used” doesn’t qualify as grounds for exculpation in my view.
John Paul II felt that his Church had been complicit enough to warrant an apology–universally understood to refer to the Crusades and Inquisition–at the turn of the millennium. And then four years later to write this: http://www.zenit.org/article-10371?l=english
As an aside, I do know that much talk of the Inquisition is overblown. I will note however that the estimate I provided above–2,000–is on the extremely low end of figures proposed by credible historians. The original point was that thousands had been killed by the Catholic Church, and the point stands. I’ll throw the Crusades into the mix as well.[/quote]
My point of objection was the burned part. My second point of objection was in the name of Jesus. My third point of objection (which I see now) is that the Pope apologized for the Inquisitions (which covers more than Spain). Also, I’ve assumed that you’ve never apologized for your friend’s mistakes. However, both as a Catholic and as a Spaniard, I feel empathy towards those who were murdered. However, I also have no tolerance for just making up exaggerations and being both Catholic and Spanish I’m quick to be skeptic of claims about the Black Legend as I’ve heard my own teachers claim that the Pope killed millions at the stake in the Spanish Inquisition, as if he himself traveled to Castile to be an Inquistor for a million trials.