Israel: Give Me A Motive!

[quote]lixy wrote:
The Allied powers following WW2 have the largest share of responsibility for the mess in that region, including the fighting between Palestine and Israel. [/quote]

Why is that? The British were the ones in charge of the Palestine mandate. Before and during the war the British refused to allow Jewish refugees into Palestine because the Arabs would get upset.

In 1939 Hitler deported a boatload of Jews that sailed around the Atlantic basin trying to find a home for them. Noone would take the Jews. Not even the US.

“On 4 June 1939, the St. Louis was also refused permission to land her passengers under orders from President Roosevelt as the ship waited between Florida and Cuba.”

After that the Germans decided to come up with another solution to the Jewish question. This is all because the British didn’t want to upset the Arabs.

The allies let Hitler slaughter millions of Jews to keep Arabs lile Lixy happy. But it still wasn’t enough.

[quote]
The decision to create the state of Israel, triggering a situation in which both the Arabs and the Israelis fight to reclaim or protect “their” lands is the root of the whole thing. [/quote]

What decision was that? At the end of the war the allies were pushing the Jews back into the concentration camps because they didn’t know what else to do with them because the British still refused to allow them into Palestine.

Finally when the Jews had enough of that bullshit they took it upon themselves to move back into the one area that had ever been their homeland.

[quote]
From the Arab perspective, a piece of their land was taken and made into a state to appease the guilt of Europeans (not Arabs) for slaughtering Jewish people. Nobody would do the same with a chunk of Great Britain or of the USA. [/quote]

Arabs and other Muslims were active participants in the Holocaust. Europeans tried to stop the Jews from going back to their homeland. You are making disingenuous excuses for Muslim prejudice and hatred.

[quote]
The USA doesn’t even give real independence to their local natives - just ties them up into its own federal structure.

From the Israeli perspective they’re thus surrounded by enemies and are determined not to give up what they have. Now, I don’t think anyone here is saying that Israel doesn’t have the right to protect itself. Just that Palestinian kids have the right to live. [/quote]

If their parents don’t care about turning their neighborhood into a war zone there is no one else to blame.

[quote]
Tel-Aviv is currently using a form of collective punishment (not to mention disproportionate) that puts it up there with the most vile regimes in modern history. This should be unequivocally condemned. [/quote]

They voted for Hamas and now they are suffering the consequences. If you mess with the bull you get the horns. What is vile is Hamas dragging everyone into their bullshit and their supporters like you not putting blame where it belongs.

[quote]
Despite whatever propaganda you might be fed, neither Palestinians nor Israelis have shown a real desire to live harmoniously. What we are witnessing is a crystallization of this decades later.

And let it there be no doubt that the Palestinians are the victims here. They are the ones in refugee camps. They are the stateless ones. They are the ones locked up in bantustans. They are dying in massive numbers under Israeli bombs. Israelis, by comparison, aren’t suffering one bit. So let’s keep some perspective. [/quote]

They are victims of their own hatred. If they weren’t such haters they would have resolved this long ago.

[quote]
Also, let’s stop pretending this is about “the Jooz”. Some of the most vocal critics of Israeli actions are Jews, and most of the staunchest defender of the Zionist state have nothing Jewish about them.

Peace. [/quote]

There are people on both sides who have different views of the conflict. Here is an interview with the son of a Hamas founder, who converted to Christianity.

http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/m/21728159/heroic_treason.htm?q=hamas

[quote]humble wrote:
Dunno if it has been posted.

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC

Do you have any more?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Watching the news, especially demonstrations in the west that look like something straight out of the mideast, I can’t help but think Israel will fall before the end of my days.

And I think the West will be instrumental in this. Just a hunch that Israel is going to be handed over on a silver platter, with hopes that the Jihad will end with the last of the Israelis. [/quote]

Neither the Religious nor the Geopolitical will see this happen.

I’ll leave the religious to others.

There are an estimated 100-200 Thermonuclear Devices, of varying tonnages, that Israel has in deep bunkers beneath the Negev desert.

Those will be unleashed if Israel ever finds herself in imminent danger of annihilation.

If Israel goes down, the Middle East and much of the World goes with her.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Watching the news, especially demonstrations in the west that look like something straight out of the mideast, I can’t help but think Israel will fall before the end of my days. And I think the West will be instrumental in this. Just a hunch that Israel is going to be handed over on a silver platter, with hopes that the Jihad will end with the last of the Israelis.

Neither the Religious nor the Geopolitical will see this happen.

I’ll leave the religious to others.

There are an estimated 100-200 Thermonuclear Devices, of varying tonnages, that Israel has in deep bunkers beneath the Negev desert.

Those will be unleashed if Israel ever finds herself in imminent danger of annihilation.

If Israel goes down, the Middle East and much of the World goes with her.

Mufasa

[/quote]

I’m still thinking it’ll happen. Iran, Israel, and surrounding territory might not be very habitable afterwards, but there you go. Just takes one martyrdom operation effectively setting off a potent wmd in Israel.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Watching the news, especially demonstrations in the west that look like something straight out of the mideast, I can’t help but think Israel will fall before the end of my days. And I think the West will be instrumental in this.

Just a hunch that Israel is going to be handed over on a silver platter, with hopes that the Jihad will end with the last of the Israelis.

Neither the Religious nor the Geopolitical will see this happen.

I’ll leave the religious to others.

There are an estimated 100-200 Thermonuclear Devices, of varying tonnages, that Israel has in deep bunkers beneath the Negev desert.

Those will be unleashed if Israel ever finds herself in imminent danger of annihilation.

If Israel goes down, the Middle East and much of the World goes with her.

Mufasa

[/quote]

I worry this may be so.

Two points:
1 The recent Gaza rockets have reached Beersheba, 20 miles from Dimona and the nuclear reactors there. It would be unacceptable to have this facility in reach of Gaza’s rockets.

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.[/quote]

lol, then you don’t understand any religon at all if you think a ‘stones’ permanence or banishment despite it’s significance can influence the permanence or banishment of a religon.

That’s like saying, get rid of all the crucifixes and Christianity will vanish.

Sifu… liveleak has a few more but can you explain or provide some proof to your claim about Arabs being involved in the holocaust/genocide?

[quote]humble wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.

lol, then you don’t understand any religon at all if you think a ‘stones’ permanence or banishment despite it’s significance can influence the permanence or banishment of a religon.

That’s like saying, get rid of all the crucifixes and Christianity will vanish.

[/quote]
You misunderstand me. The hajj is one of the pillars of the faith, yes?

[quote]humble wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.

lol, then you don’t understand any religon at all if you think a ‘stones’ permanence or banishment despite it’s significance can influence the permanence or banishment of a religon.

That’s like saying, get rid of all the crucifixes and Christianity will vanish.

Sifu… liveleak has a few more but can you explain or provide some proof to your claim about Arabs being involved in the holocaust/genocide?
[/quote]

Probably the best place to start is with the grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Here is a German Documentary about him.

Hitler, The Mufti Of Jerusalem And Modern Islamo Nazism - YouTube

This news report from Bayerischer Rundfunk explains in detail the cooperation between the Nazis and the Muslim Arab leaders during WW2.

It goes on to explain how high ranking heads of the SS fled to the Arab world and carried on their activities under the protection of leaders such as President Nasser and how modern Islam has adopted a Nazi style ideology of hate and conspiracy against the Jews.

Here is another video about the mufti.

Here is a video about the SS handzar division that he raised.

Incidentally the actions of the Bosnian SS divisions during the war was the cause of what happened in Kosovo in the 90’s.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
To HAMAS:

Stop the daily missile attacks into Southern Israel and the carnage stops…

Mufasa[/quote]

Again, you’re ignoring the blockade and the fact that Gaza is, as the saying goes, the world’s largest open air prison. None of this excuses Palestinian terrorism; there are very few people in the West who are actually Hamas apologists. But you make the issue seem completely one-sided. It isn’t.

[quote]lixy wrote:
The Allied powers following WW2 have the largest share of responsibility for the mess in that region, including the fighting between Palestine and Israel.

The decision to create the state of Israel, triggering a situation in which both the Arabs and the Israelis fight to reclaim or protect “their” lands is the root of the whole thing.

From the Arab perspective, a piece of their land was taken and made into a state to appease the guilt of Europeans (not Arabs) for slaughtering Jewish people. Nobody would do the same with a chunk of Great Britain or of the USA.

The USA doesn’t even give real independence to their local natives - just ties them up into its own federal structure.

From the Israeli perspective they’re thus surrounded by enemies and are determined not to give up what they have. Now, I don’t think anyone here is saying that Israel doesn’t have the right to protect itself. Just that Palestinian kids have the right to live.

Tel-Aviv is currently using a form of collective punishment (not to mention disproportionate) that puts it up there with the most vile regimes in modern history. This should be unequivocally condemned.

Despite whatever propaganda you might be fed, neither Palestinians nor Israelis have shown a real desire to live harmoniously. What we are witnessing is a crystallization of this decades later.

And let it there be no doubt that the Palestinians are the victims here. They are the ones in refugee camps. They are the stateless ones. They are the ones locked up in bantustans. They are dying in massive numbers under Israeli bombs. Israelis, by comparison, aren’t suffering one bit. So let’s keep some perspective.

Also, let’s stop pretending this is about “the Jooz”. Some of the most vocal critics of Israeli actions are Jews, and most of the staunchest defender of the Zionist state have nothing Jewish about them.

Peace.[/quote]

Good post.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
humble wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.

lol, then you don’t understand any religon at all if you think a ‘stones’ permanence or banishment despite it’s significance can influence the permanence or banishment of a religon.

That’s like saying, get rid of all the crucifixes and Christianity will vanish.

Sifu… liveleak has a few more but can you explain or provide some proof to your claim about Arabs being involved in the holocaust/genocide?

Probably the best place to start is with the grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Here is a German Documentary about him.

Hitler, The Mufti Of Jerusalem And Modern Islamo Nazism - YouTube

This news report from Bayerischer Rundfunk explains in detail the cooperation between the Nazis and the Muslim Arab leaders during WW2.

It goes on to explain how high ranking heads of the SS fled to the Arab world and carried on their activities under the protection of leaders such as President Nasser and how modern Islam has adopted a Nazi style ideology of hate and conspiracy against the Jews.

Here is another video about the mufti.

Here is a video about the SS handzar division that he raised.

Incidentally the actions of the Bosnian SS divisions during the war was the cause of what happened in Kosovo in the 90’s.

[/quote]

Are you aware that the most extreme Zionists also sought to cooperate with the Nazis?

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

This conflict is about stopping those rockets (whose range has now dramatically increased; can anyone say “IRAN”?)

[/quote]

Israel LOVES terrorism… LOVES IT, plain and simple. They NEED IT to exist. Thats why they commit so many acts of “fake terror” disguised as Arabs.

Just knowing the number of high-profile cases where Israel got busted red-handed faking terrorism (Lavon affair, King David Hotel to name just two), how could ANY rational person trust that those rockets are even coming from Hamas?

Lebanon army: 7 missiles ready to be fired at Israel found in south Lebanon
25/12/2008
The missiles were found five kilometers from Lebanon’s border with Israel, in an area which is considered a Hezbollah stronghold but is officially under the jurisdiction of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), in accordance with UN Security Council resolution 1701. Under the terms of the UN resolution, it is forbidden to station weapons in this area.

Two senior officers said that the rockets’ timers were activated, and one of the officers said the rockets were to have been fired overnight Thursday…
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050127.html

Mortar mishap sparks security scare ahead of peace summit
Three mortars, apparently fired by a private Israeli defense contractor accidentally, exploded in northern Israel near the Lebanese border Monday.

The explosions, which Israeli police initially blamed on the Lebanese resistance group Hizbullah, caused a security scare ahead of today’s Sharm el-Sheikh summit.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=12482

Oops…

But who really cares if Hamas gets rocket technology from Iran anyway? Thank Israel for that!

Israel admits resuming defence exports to China
http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw060306_1_n.shtml

China’s Missile Imports and Assistance From Israel
China’s missile-related imports and assistance from Israel have been a subject of particular concern in the United States because of worries that Israel may be providing China with “back door” access to controlled, sensitive US technology.

For example, in the early 1990s, reports surfaced that Israel had secretly transferred information on the US Patriot missile system to China, in violation of Israel’s promise to the United States not to transfer the Patriot technology to any third country. Although both China and Israel denied the allegations, US government sources concluded that it was almost certain that a transfer of technology (though not physical equipment) had taken place…
http://www.nti.org/db/china/imisr.htm

Russia, Israel are China’s top arms suppliers
Israel is China’s second-largest arms supplier, after Russia…

Washington has also alleged on several occasions that Israel violated agreements by exporting to China restricted U.S. technology it buys with yearly U.S. subsidies…
http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2477.html

I shouldn’t have to spell it out, but I will…

China-Iran-Russia axis
Beijing has worked feverishly… in an apparent effort to prevent US military action against the remaining ‘axis of evil’ members, Iran and North Korea. In addition to recent massive energy deals with Tehran, which place Iran in China’s security web, both Beijing and Moscow have accelerated the transfer of missile technology to Tehran, while selling the Islamic republic increasingly sophisticated military equipment
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=China-Iran-Russia_axis

You have to legitimately ask the question, “why would Israel continue to sell the very technology they seem to be soooo afraid of, almost DIRECTLY to their worst enemy?” And not just a little bit… “Israel is China’s second-largest arms supplier”

Between the fake terror, selling classified technology to our enemies and the constant spying and stealing of technology from the US… now the massacre in Gaza… anyone continuing to unconditionally support Israel should be called a traitor.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Sifu wrote:
humble wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.

lol, then you don’t understand any religon at all if you think a ‘stones’ permanence or banishment despite it’s significance can influence the permanence or banishment of a religon.

That’s like saying, get rid of all the crucifixes and Christianity will vanish.

Sifu… liveleak has a few more but can you explain or provide some proof to your claim about Arabs being involved in the holocaust/genocide?

Probably the best place to start is with the grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Here is a German Documentary about him.

Hitler, The Mufti Of Jerusalem And Modern Islamo Nazism - YouTube

This news report from Bayerischer Rundfunk explains in detail the cooperation between the Nazis and the Muslim Arab leaders during WW2.

It goes on to explain how high ranking heads of the SS fled to the Arab world and carried on their activities under the protection of leaders such as President Nasser and how modern Islam has adopted a Nazi style ideology of hate and conspiracy against the Jews.

Here is another video about the mufti.

Here is a video about the SS handzar division that he raised.

Incidentally the actions of the Bosnian SS divisions during the war was the cause of what happened in Kosovo in the 90’s.

Are you aware that the most extreme Zionists also sought to cooperate with the Nazis?[/quote]

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/nazisupport.cfm

[quote]Sifu wrote:
humble wrote:
Dunno if it has been posted.

WARNING VERY GRAPHIC

Do you have any more?[/quote]

Yep

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
To HAMAS:

Stop the daily missile attacks into Southern Israel and the carnage stops…

Mufasa

Again, you’re ignoring the blockade and the fact that Gaza is, as the saying goes, the world’s largest open air prison. None of this excuses Palestinian terrorism; there are very few people in the West who are actually Hamas apologists. But you make the issue seem completely one-sided. It isn’t.[/quote]

If Hamas stopped with the rocket attacks and really made it clear and showed they would not resume, Israel and Egypt would end the blockade.

I was shocked to skim and see that Israel was an arms supplier to China. And was going to investigate. Then I saw it was a Just The Facts post. I’ll probably still investigate. But I’m sure it won’t pan out.

For once it seems there is actually some measure of TRUTH to a Just The Facts post. I wish I had time to investigate. But it’ll have to wait till the weekend.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
For once it seems there is actually some measure of TRUTH to a Just The Facts post. I wish I had time to investigate. But it’ll have to wait till the weekend. [/quote]

I’ve said it before…

The Chinese are extremely pragmatic and are not going to get themselves involved in things like “religious” squabbles. The Chinese will do what they feel is in the best interest of China…and that’s it.

Israel knows this…and knows that it is MUCH better to have a “friend” with Nukes who can put a million “boots on the ground” on your side rather than visa-versa.

(Or at least not have them against you…)

Mufasa

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
To HAMAS:

Stop the daily missile attacks into Southern Israel and the carnage stops…

Mufasa

Again, you’re ignoring the blockade and the fact that Gaza is, as the saying goes, the world’s largest open air prison. None of this excuses Palestinian terrorism; there are very few people in the West who are actually Hamas apologists. But you make the issue seem completely one-sided. It isn’t.[/quote]

The Blockade and the current fighting are for the same reasons.

And I’ll say it again…there are NO winners in all this…

Just a LOT of people who lose…

Mufasa

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I was shocked to skim and see that Israel was an arms supplier to China. [/quote]

Why would you be shocked? Are you under the impression that there’s an influential American lobby in Tel-Aviv?