Islam Needs to Prove It's a Religion of Peace

[quote]Makavali wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Their magic space god isn’t any more right or wrong then yours, fellas. Hate to break it to you, but you’ve got the same shot at proving Christianity is based on anything more than legends written by dope fiends and hookers.

Dope fiends and hookers don’t contradict themselves that much.[/quote]

Ok, where is this even coming from? What does Christian belief in God have to do with this? The convert to atheism is no less in danger. The atheist woman is no less lashed for hanging around men. What in the heck is going on with you people? You think this brutality and oppresion is reserved solely for the Christian minority? What’s with the bait and switch?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
By the way, two soldiers killed in Antrim by the REAL IRA.

Another two chalked up for Christianity, the religion of peace, love, and harmony.

No doubt.

And where’s the Christian defense? I don’t see it in your article. You won’t see me making any excuses for them. I won’t craft arguements about how poverty, economic, or national issues made them victims, who had no other option but terrorism. I’m not a bed wetting liberal, no matter what label the person is sporting.

You have no problem chalking this up to Christianity, so why take issue with us pointing out WIDESPREAD brutality and supremacism praticed in the Islamic world. I wouldn’t be so proud to take a stand for Islam. You might look down and notice you’re standing on the corpses and broken bodies of it’s very recent victims.
[/quote]

I don’t take issue with you pointing it out. What I take issue at constantly is a message board full of mostly white, mostly christian, mostly conservative Americans acting like we as a country or you as a religion have never committed genocides like it’s going out of style.

Not 100 years ago white christian hillbillies were finishing off the last of the Indians. Now, when we’re on the other side of the coin, white christian hillbillies are complaining that it’s not fair and they need to prove they’re peaceful.

Fuckin hell guys, make your minds up.

[quote]
It’s time for the Islamic world to reform. Suprisingly, it’s the non-believer that wants to sabotage a united front calling for, demanding, this reformation. At least, it seems to be the case in this forum. It’s pretty sad that the author, a reformed Islamic terrorist has been basically dismissed.[/quote]

I don’t disagree. I have a hatred for any psycho religious state, be it Iran, the Taliban, or whomever. I think that the stifling of the press, of women, etc. is unbelievable, and that yes, they need to move from the dark ages.

However, ain’t nothin’ wrong with pointing out the ridiculousness of a country that took 300 years to elect a black man calling on anyone to reform.

And I’m not a non-believer. I probably believe in God, but I think that nearly all religions are corrupt and full of shit. Although I’m kind of enjoying being a Catholic at the moment because they’re selling indulgences again, and I’m all about buying my way into heaven.

It seems that apparently, the dude with the most toys does win. Even in the afterlife. Republicans should be elated.

[quote]JamFly wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
By the way, two soldiers killed in Antrim by the REAL IRA.

Another two chalked up for Christianity, the religion of peace, love, and harmony.

No doubt.

What does the IRA have to do with religion? It’s a political issue dipshit.[/quote]

Yes, you fucking douche, it is. A political issue with deep ties to the root problem, which is the Protestant and Catholic divide. Without the religion issue, there’s no political issue. Got it cock?

Bell: tinkle ring tinkle ring tinkle ring

Response: Crusades; Inquisition; killings in the name of Christianity; quantitative and moral parity.

Bell: tinkle ring tinkle ring tinkle ring

Response: Crusades; Inquisition; killings in the name of Christianity; quantitative and moral parity.

Bell: tinkle ring tinkle ring tinkle ring

Response: Crusades; Inquisition; killings in the name of Christianity; quantitative and moral parity.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
shookers wrote:
This has nothing at all to do with “religion”

Islam is a faith yes, but more importantly it’s an ideology. Like communism, it resorts to barbaric practices that have no place in the free world. Islam should not be allowed to hide behind the false facade of freedom of religion to continue its heinous practices.

A religion that does not explicitly fights against freedom does not deserve to be protected by it.

If non-radical “westernized” Muslims want to believe and practice, thats perfectly fine. But in the world today, Islam is not simply a religion but a militant ideology threatening to wipe all of us out.

But the crusades?! And the conquistadors! We simply don’t have the moral highground.

They’re all fucking ridiculous. There are probably more deaths committed in the name of Christianity than those in any others.

But either way, all things being equal, one is not more militant than the other. I doubt many of the people here that criticize Islam really have read anymore than what works with them to prove their points.

The difference is that extremists have done with Islam what Ho Chi Minh did in Vietnam when he folded the two causes of nationalism and communism into each other when in reality, the two ideas are very contrary to each other. But by making the biggest, strongest group of nationalists the NVA/Viet Cong/NLF, he made them one in the same.

They’ve done a similar thing in the Middle East, folding the hatred of the US/Israel together with Islam. It’s actually a very intelligent thing to do.

But either way, the thought process that Islam is inherently dangerous makes no sense because the million of Muslims living in the US rarely show any hint of overt violence. I’ve found that most Muslims are interested in being very peaceful. That they would be willing to give their lives for something shouldn’t seem strange, because we’ve got our chickenhawks on this very board telling us all to kill in the name of country all the time.
[/quote]

Good post. I think the issue you’re not quite saying is whether it’s an issue of Arab culture being violent/unreformed more than it is one of Islam. Yes, there are violent Muslims in other regions (Pakistan and Afghanistan come to mind), but often those conflicts are, as you said, about ethnicity or territory and are then given religious justifications. That’s true of Palestine, the longest running “Islam vs. the West” conflict I can think of offhand.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
By the way, two soldiers killed in Antrim by the REAL IRA.

Another two chalked up for Christianity, the religion of peace, love, and harmony.

No doubt.

And where’s the Christian defense? I don’t see it in your article. You won’t see me making any excuses for them. I won’t craft arguements about how poverty, economic, or national issues made them victims, who had no other option but terrorism. I’m not a bed wetting liberal, no matter what label the person is sporting.

You have no problem chalking this up to Christianity, so why take issue with us pointing out WIDESPREAD brutality and supremacism praticed in the Islamic world. I wouldn’t be so proud to take a stand for Islam. You might look down and notice you’re standing on the corpses and broken bodies of it’s very recent victims.

I don’t take issue with you pointing it out. What I take issue at constantly is a message board full of mostly white, mostly christian, mostly conservative Americans acting like we as a country or you as a religion have never committed genocides like it’s going out of style.

Not 100 years ago white christian hillbillies were finishing off the last of the Indians. Now, when we’re on the other side of the coin, white christian hillbillies are complaining that it’s not fair and they need to prove they’re peaceful.

Fuckin hell guys, make your minds up.

It’s time for the Islamic world to reform. Suprisingly, it’s the non-believer that wants to sabotage a united front calling for, demanding, this reformation. At least, it seems to be the case in this forum. It’s pretty sad that the author, a reformed Islamic terrorist has been basically dismissed.

I don’t disagree. I have a hatred for any psycho religious state, be it Iran, the Taliban, or whomever. I think that the stifling of the press, of women, etc. is unbelievable, and that yes, they need to move from the dark ages.

However, ain’t nothin’ wrong with pointing out the ridiculousness of a country that took 300 years to elect a black man calling on anyone to reform.

And I’m not a non-believer. I probably believe in God, but I think that nearly all religions are corrupt and full of shit. Although I’m kind of enjoying being a Catholic at the moment because they’re selling indulgences again, and I’m all about buying my way into heaven.

It seems that apparently, the dude with the most toys does win. Even in the afterlife. Republicans should be elated.
[/quote]

Sit down and shut the hell up white Christians inheritors of the original sin (black slavery). Non-white, non-believers will shoulder the load for us all. Well, front and center, we’re all waiting with baited breath.

Let’s see. We’re talking about Islamism today, and we go off into indulgences, in a volutary association with the Catholic Chuch…Not to forget, inherited white sin. Inherited guilt for Christians (though I’d imagine there were some Deists, agnostics, and even outright atheists who had no problem running the Indian off of their land, setting up their homestead in it’s place.)

Today South Park can lampoon Christ regularly, with nothing more than a few smattering of protests. But, name a teddy bear after the Prophet, and look out folks! Nah, we won’t deal with the present issue. We’ll go to the history books for a few conversation stoppers.

Which is troubling. After all, women and religious minorities don’t have much of voice in the Islamic world. Too bad we aim to silence each other about their status. Like, today, in the present. Widespread.

I gotta go, you folks are killing me.

Edit: One last thing. Someone needs to take the infamous pic of the kneeling woman covered from head to toe, being shot in the head in a soccer stadium for whatever slight she brought upon muslim males, and make one of those popular internet posters with the white lettering at the bottom. It could read “I know, man. But, shhh. The inquisition, dude. The inquisition.” It doesn’t have to be the inquisition. One could use whatever white, or Christian wrong, they can pluck from history.

The gem above is true enough, and looks nice pulled out and all cleaned up.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I gotta go, you folks are killing me.[/quote]

I’d have figured you’d be “out”.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Today South Park can lampoon Christ regularly, with nothing more than a few smattering of protests. But, name a teddy bear after the Prophet, and look out folks! Nah, we won’t deal with the present issue. We’ll go to the history books for a few conversation stoppers.
[/quote]

You didn’t answer anything, so I wasn’t going to either. But let me point out that if the history books weren’t so fat with the misuse of every religion in order to serve the purpose of war, maybe I wouldn’t be able to use this.

But nope, nope, our space god is better, we love peace, blah blah blah. Keep them blinders on.

They keep drawing me back in. And a touch of insomnia doesn’t help.

Where in the world is this “my god is better” coming from? Did I propose a conquer and forcible conversion of the Islamic world? Or, well, a reformation. Further, in what way, shape, or form, have I based my arguements on Christian theology? In what way does speaking up for any and all shades of apostates, religious (and non-religious) minorities, oppresed and brutalized women, have to do with “my god is better than your god?” Where in the world is this coming from? Seriously?

I didn’t answer your points because, well, what the heck do indulgences and American slavery have to do with this? Sorry, but the “your great grandpappy did bad things” card is just about worn out. Not only is it’s effectiveness wearing thin in stifling debate about issues in the present, it’s counterproductive in the face of supremacism in the here and now.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I gotta go, you folks are killing me.

I’d have figured you’d be “out”.[/quote]

Ladies and gentlemen, the comedy stylings of Makavali! How about a round of applause! Badda-boom!

[quote]NealRaymond2 wrote:

Sloth wrote:
Ok, where is this even coming from? What does Christian belief in God have to do with this?

…What in the heck is going on with you people?

Bell: tinkle ring tinkle ring tinkle ring

Response: Crusades; Inquisition; killings in the name of Christianity; quantitative and moral parity.

Bell: tinkle ring tinkle ring tinkle ring

Response: Crusades; Inquisition; killings in the name of Christianity; quantitative and moral parity.

Bell: tinkle ring tinkle ring tinkle ring

Response: Crusades; Inquisition; killings in the name of Christianity; quantitative and moral parity.
[/quote]

See my poster proposal.

[quote]NealRaymond2 wrote:

FightinIrish26 wrote:
No one needs to prove that they’re a religion of peace, especially not to some … on a message board or some … editorialist … .

The gem above is true enough, and looks nice pulled out and all cleaned up.

[/quote]

Not just any editorialist, guys. Emphasis, mine.

“Mr. Hamid, a former member of an Islamist terrorist group, is an Islamic reformer and senior fellow at the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies.”

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
JamFly wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
By the way, two soldiers killed in Antrim by the REAL IRA.

Another two chalked up for Christianity, the religion of peace, love, and harmony.

No doubt.

What does the IRA have to do with religion? It’s a political issue dipshit.

Yes, you fucking douche, it is. A political issue with deep ties to the root problem, which is the Protestant and Catholic divide. Without the religion issue, there’s no political issue. Got it cock?[/quote]

So the IRA are motivated to kill Protestants because their religion says so? I wonder why there are not more Catholics all over the world killing Protestants because God told them to? Did you know one of the soldiers killed was Catholic???

Hillarious - people like you are the reason the US receives such negative sterotypes.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
By the way, two soldiers killed in Antrim by the REAL IRA.

Another two chalked up for Christianity, the religion of peace, love, and harmony.

No doubt.

And where’s the Christian defense? I don’t see it in your article. You won’t see me making any excuses for them. I won’t craft arguements about how poverty, economic, or national issues made them victims, who had no other option but terrorism. I’m not a bed wetting liberal, no matter what label the person is sporting.

You have no problem chalking this up to Christianity, so why take issue with us pointing out WIDESPREAD brutality and supremacism praticed in the Islamic world. I wouldn’t be so proud to take a stand for Islam. You might look down and notice you’re standing on the corpses and broken bodies of it’s very recent victims.

It’s time for the Islamic world to reform. Suprisingly, it’s the non-believer that wants to sabotage a united front calling for, demanding, this reformation. At least, it seems to be the case in this forum. It’s pretty sad that the author, a reformed Islamic terrorist has been basically dismissed.[/quote]

Look I’ve been caught up in Christian bombings in London and Manchester on several occasions and I’ve been caught up in Islamic bombings in London on one occasion. Neither set of people makes me in a hurry to sign up for their peaceful religion.

Maybe as an American you haven’t seen first hand the sectarian hatred that goes on within Christianity but I have.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

Look I’ve been caught up in Christian bombings in London and Manchester on several occasions and I’ve been caught up in Islamic bombings in London on one occasion. Neither set of people makes me in a hurry to sign up for their peaceful religion.

Maybe as an American you haven’t seen first hand the sectarian hatred that goes on within Christianity but I have.[/quote]

You seem to be confusing peoples personal predjudices and politically motivated terrorism for a religious movement? You are suggesting that the Catholic church condones, supports and promotes terrorist bombings in the same fashion as islamic clerics openly do, don’t you see how ridiculous this non-comparison is?

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sloth wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
By the way, two soldiers killed in Antrim by the REAL IRA.

Another two chalked up for Christianity, the religion of peace, love, and harmony.

No doubt.

And where’s the Christian defense? I don’t see it in your article. You won’t see me making any excuses for them. I won’t craft arguements about how poverty, economic, or national issues made them victims, who had no other option but terrorism. I’m not a bed wetting liberal, no matter what label the person is sporting.

You have no problem chalking this up to Christianity, so why take issue with us pointing out WIDESPREAD brutality and supremacism praticed in the Islamic world. I wouldn’t be so proud to take a stand for Islam. You might look down and notice you’re standing on the corpses and broken bodies of it’s very recent victims.

It’s time for the Islamic world to reform. Suprisingly, it’s the non-believer that wants to sabotage a united front calling for, demanding, this reformation. At least, it seems to be the case in this forum. It’s pretty sad that the author, a reformed Islamic terrorist has been basically dismissed.

Look I’ve been caught up in Christian bombings in London and Manchester on several occasions and I’ve been caught up in Islamic bombings in London on one occasion. Neither set of people makes me in a hurry to sign up for their peaceful religion.

Maybe as an American you haven’t seen first hand the sectarian hatred that goes on within Christianity but I have.[/quote]

Gee, where I was trying to recruit and convert anyone here? Ok, we suck. Now, with that out of the way, will our pure as the wind driven snow atheist brethern join us in condemning the widespread abuses in the Islamic world? Instead of muddying up calls for widespread reform with atheistic evangelization?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
NealRaymond2 wrote:

FightinIrish26 wrote:
No one needs to prove that they’re a religion of peace, especially not to some … on a message board or some … editorialist … .

The gem above is true enough, and looks nice pulled out and all cleaned up.

Not just any editorialist, guys. Emphasis, mine.

“Mr. Hamid, a former member of an Islamist terrorist group, is an Islamic reformer and senior fellow at the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies.” [/quote]

What does the title “Islamic reformer” mean? If you have Luther in mind or Calvin in mind, then tough tomato. There is no centralized clergy or Church equivalent in Islam to stand against (except in Iran, but I don’t suppose you consider the MEK to be a “terrorist group”). Most Muslims will shit on this guy, like they shit on the Sauds, the Alaouites, Al-Qaeda and anyone who claims to interpret the words of God for them.

As for this guy’s fellowship, the “Institute” seems to be one of those think-tanks which are exclusively looking out for American interests. That puts them at a heavy bias. From their “about us” page:

[i]Our Mission

The Potomac Institute for Policy Studies is an independent, 501(c)(3), not-for-profit public policy research institute. The Institute identifies and aggressively shepherds discussion on key science, technology, and national security issues facing our society, providing in particular, an academic forum for the study of related policy issues. From these discussions and forums, we develop meaningful policy options and ensure their implementation at the intersection of business and government. The Institute?s current endeavors have required the formation of special efforts in:

  • Terrorism and asymmetry;
  • Emerging threats and opportunities;[/i]

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
That’s true of Palestine, the longest running “Islam vs. the West” conflict I can think of offhand.[/quote]

In British Mandate Palestine, Arab Christians made up about 20% of the population. And they vehemently resisted the establishment of a Zionist state from the very beginning. So, it was hardly “Islam vs. the West”. That narrative is indeed recent, and started when the secular PLO started losing ground to the Islamists in Hamas.

However, ain’t nothin’ wrong with pointing out the ridiculousness of a country that took 300 years to elect a black man calling on anyone to reform.

This country has been around , uh, 232 + years now and did not have elections immediately in 1776. and what does a man’s color of skin have to do with anything?