[quote]CoreyK wrote:
Did anyone else read through this whole thread only to find that there are no more pictures of said girl?[/quote]
Exactly, I was looking for more pics. Here is what I found, she’s jennie from bikini joe’s;
Pictures of girl in varying stages of undress from said flag outfit FTW.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
conorh wrote:
BrownTrout wrote:
I hate when people equate the confederacy with white supremacy. Today the Civil War is remembered as little more than a conflict to liberate southern slaves, when in reality this was a side effect of the disavowing of the confederate states of America. The Civil War was about the institutionalization of the federal government and the Uniting of all the states under one supreme authority. I’m actually really afraid by how few people understand this.
I grew up on the Southern edge of a confederate border state and I used to tow this same party line. Now I’m not so sure. I definitely think that the Civil War was principally over state’s rights and limiting federal power, but in fact I think it was pretty clearly an issue of white supremacy and racism.
From CSA Vice President Stephens’ Cornerstone Speech:
(Jefferson’s) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. … Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerÃ??Ã?¢??stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery Ã??Ã?¢?? subordination to the superior race Ã??Ã?¢?? is his natural and normal condition.
That being said, in this day and age I don’t think it’s inherently racist to wear/display the Stars and Bars, but there’s probably significant correlation with racism. Of course, symbols mean different things to different folks and in different contexts. I probably wouldn’t wear a Stars and Bars buckle to an NAACP meeting.
My Dad has a lot of red bandannas, doesn’t make him a Blood, after all.
Of course you realize that there were indeed northern slave states (5 of them I believe). And in addition Lincoln promised that the northern slave states would get to keep their slaves no matter what. He even promised that any southern state willing to rejoin the union at the time of the emancipation proclamation would get to keep theirs too (within 100 days). It’s all in the written down if you ever actually care to read what the proclamation actually said.
The northern states weren’t the “good guys” fighting for equality in the civil war. It was a power struggle plain and simple. The southern states were getting walked all over by the federal government with tariffs and other things. Lincoln was a racist, power hungry, politian and a tyrant, (suspended the writ of habeas corpus, imprisoned opposition for years without a trial),elected without a single electoral vote from a southern state, and by some experts estimation deliberately started the war (possibly to get re-elected).
Don’t construe this post as an “I voted for Davis” claim. I just reject the notion the civil war was about slavery and the north were the “good guys”. They just got to write the history books.
[/quote]
I agree. I fucking hate Lincoln. He was our worst president. I can’t believe how much people bitch about the Bush administration but never bring up that fascist Lincoln.
I even said in my post that I agree in principle that the Civil War (or Great War of Northern Aggression as I remember it being referred to growing up) was a state’s rights issue. I just think racism was part and parcel of the Southern culture incumbent on their economic system in a visceral way which I only recently acknowledged personally.
I guess my post was more a personal acceptance of historic southern racism on my part than any particular commentary on the Civil War and I should have framed it as such.
First of all the girl is hot. I would do anything I could to get her out of the rebel bikini.
Second of all, it was the flag of a major insurgency with the intent to break up the united states of america. If you did that now, you would go away for a long time. Let’s not even pretend there is no racism involved, including the slavery issue. Yes, other states had it but the southern portion of the US was a little behind the times on the slavery issue. In my opinion, which you can disagree with.
Third, more bikini rednecks please.
War of Northern Aggression. I think that was a revisionist term used much later.
My old folks still occasionally told stories about the family and the war.
Some of you need to get a history lesson. The flag was initially held by a small regiment in Virginia, and later adopted as the flag of the Confederacy. Many, many years later, it was adopted by some clansmen to show unity for the white brother’hood’ (pun intended). Of course these idiots failed to realize, although now it is commonly believed because of this, that being racist was inherently southern because they owned slaves. More black slaves came through New York harbor than any other harbor, and more black slaves were hung in New York City than any other city. Lets not confuse racism and slavery, because although to have a slave makes one a racist, to be racist does not make one want to own a slave. A majority of Northerners (of course, majority being more than 50%, which in the grand scheme is not a lot) thought slavery was awful, but most of these same people wouldn’t have saved a drowning African if he had two life vests. Most Northerners still considered Africans second or third class ANIMALS, let alone people.
Unfortunately this flag, in recent history, was adopted to symbolize white supremacy. In fact, many slaves fought AGAINST the North in the civil war, and there are former slaves who went on to write stories or books where they state they were never treated worse than when they walked through a big city like New York or Philadelphia.
I am a New Yorker and went to school in the South. I too always thought this flag was the symbol of white racist southerners. Instead of accepting this, I did some research, and found some answers.
This flag will never be able to get rid of the stigma of being racist, because unintelligent WHITE SOUTHERNERS misinterpreted the meaning and now that is what is commonly believed. How sad.
[quote]paleotool wrote:
First of all the girl is hot. I would do anything I could to get her out of the rebel bikini.
Second of all, it was the flag of a major insurgency with the intent to break up the united states of america. If you did that now, you would go away for a long time. Let’s not even pretend there is no racism involved, including the slavery issue. Yes, other states had it but the southern portion of the US was a little behind the times on the slavery issue. In my opinion, which you can disagree with.
Third, more bikini rednecks please.[/quote]
But when a long train of abuses and usurpation, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
I maintain the only real difference between the revolutionary war and the civil war was that which side won. But I’m sure you consider the revolutionary army “insurgents” too.
[quote]conorh wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
conorh wrote:
BrownTrout wrote:
I hate when people equate the confederacy with white supremacy. Today the Civil War is remembered as little more than a conflict to liberate southern slaves, when in reality this was a side effect of the disavowing of the confederate states of America. The Civil War was about the institutionalization of the federal government and the Uniting of all the states under one supreme authority. I’m actually really afraid by how few people understand this.
I grew up on the Southern edge of a confederate border state and I used to tow this same party line. Now I’m not so sure. I definitely think that the Civil War was principally over state’s rights and limiting federal power, but in fact I think it was pretty clearly an issue of white supremacy and racism.
From CSA Vice President Stephens’ Cornerstone Speech:
(Jefferson’s) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. … Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? subordination to the superior race Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? is his natural and normal condition.
That being said, in this day and age I don’t think it’s inherently racist to wear/display the Stars and Bars, but there’s probably significant correlation with racism. Of course, symbols mean different things to different folks and in different contexts. I probably wouldn’t wear a Stars and Bars buckle to an NAACP meeting.
My Dad has a lot of red bandannas, doesn’t make him a Blood, after all.
Of course you realize that there were indeed northern slave states (5 of them I believe). And in addition Lincoln promised that the northern slave states would get to keep their slaves no matter what. He even promised that any southern state willing to rejoin the union at the time of the emancipation proclamation would get to keep theirs too (within 100 days). It’s all in the written down if you ever actually care to read what the proclamation actually said.
The northern states weren’t the “good guys” fighting for equality in the civil war. It was a power struggle plain and simple. The southern states were getting walked all over by the federal government with tariffs and other things. Lincoln was a racist, power hungry, politian and a tyrant, (suspended the writ of habeas corpus, imprisoned opposition for years without a trial),elected without a single electoral vote from a southern state, and by some experts estimation deliberately started the war (possibly to get re-elected).
Don’t construe this post as an “I voted for Davis” claim. I just reject the notion the civil war was about slavery and the north were the “good guys”. They just got to write the history books.
I agree. I fucking hate Lincoln. He was our worst president. I can’t believe how much people bitch about the Bush administration but never bring up that fascist Lincoln.
I even said in my post that I agree in principle that the Civil War (or Great War of Northern Aggression as I remember it being referred to growing up) was a state’s rights issue. I just think racism was part and parcel of the Southern culture incumbent on their economic system in a visceral way which I only recently acknowledged personally.
I guess my post was more a personal acceptance of historic southern racism on my part than any particular commentary on the Civil War and I should have framed it as such.[/quote]
If you think racism is in any way isolated to the south, you are kidding yourself. In the civil war days EVERYONE considered blacks far less than equal. If not explain to me Detroit and LA. There was not some miracle light switch that turned on in northern states that freed them from ignorance.
Iâ??ve lived in the south my whole life and been witness to much more racism against white people than any against blacks. And Iâ??ve spent the last 3 years in the Mississippi delta. No clansmen running around, no burning crosses, never even heard of it. Now keep in mind this is literally down the street from Money, Emmett Till, and one of the supposed graves of Robert Johnson. I can tell you itâ??s no longer the whites that institutionalize the racism. Black people are the majority and essentially ran the government.
That is the biggest difference Iâ??ve found when comparing it to northern towns.
I took a business trip up to Minneapolis a few years back and got to hang out with a friend I knew that lived there. All of his friends essentially grilled me about how horrible the ignorant rednecks down south are, and none of them had even the slightest idea. I realized sitting there thinking about it that I hadnâ??t seen a black person since I got there. Essentially itâ??s really easy to be perfect and pro â??â??multiculturalâ?? when donâ??t have to deal with racial issues. Itâ??s easy to have a high and mighty opinion when everyone around you is the same race.
Go live in the delta a while, youâ??ll come out with a new perspective.
[quote]jdtarheel13 wrote:
Some of you need to get a history lesson. The flag was initially held by a small regiment in Virginia, and later adopted as the flag of the Confederacy. Many, many years later, it was adopted by some clansmen to show unity for the white brother’hood’ (pun intended). Of course these idiots failed to realize, although now it is commonly believed because of this, that being racist was inherently southern because they owned slaves. More black slaves came through New York harbor than any other harbor, and more black slaves were hung in New York City than any other city. Lets not confuse racism and slavery, because although to have a slave makes one a racist, to be racist does not make one want to own a slave. A majority of Northerners (of course, majority being more than 50%, which in the grand scheme is not a lot) thought slavery was awful, but most of these same people wouldn’t have saved a drowning African if he had two life vests. Most Northerners still considered Africans second or third class ANIMALS, let alone people.
Unfortunately this flag, in recent history, was adopted to symbolize white supremacy. In fact, many slaves fought AGAINST the North in the civil war, and there are former slaves who went on to write stories or books where they state they were never treated worse than when they walked through a big city like New York or Philadelphia.
I am a New Yorker and went to school in the South. I too always thought this flag was the symbol of white racist southerners. Instead of accepting this, I did some research, and found some answers.
This flag will never be able to get rid of the stigma of being racist, because unintelligent WHITE SOUTHERNERS misinterpreted the meaning and now that is what is commonly believed. How sad. [/quote]
Sorry, but youâ??re wrong. The stars and bars was only the battle flag (one of many), never the CSA flag.
And it is not only ignorant white southerners that mis-interpret the flag. You admitted growing up to thinking incorrectly about it until you educated yourself. =0)
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I maintain the only real difference between the revolutionary war and the civil war was that which side won. But I’m sure you consider the revolutionary army “insurgents” too.[/quote]
Oh yes I do indeed. Insurgent wasn’t meant as a dirty word. I would have been as well. I would have been if I lived in the south and union soldiers walked over my farm. My family were insurgents in both wars you speak of as well as regular unionists in the Civil War. If you are a Civil War aficionado you may know of the “position of armed neutrality”. That was the stupid blunder of the Missourians I’m related to. It means that they were beat by both sides.
Justifications for that war aren’t about a flag. I think that the dopey 19 year old who has the confederate flag window shade in the back of his pick up is the one who may need a history lesson (but it probably wouldn’t do any good anyway).
My real point is still: more bikini = good.
Can’t we all just get along and pick on the Irish…
For old times sake?
True, never the CSA flag technically, i misspoke. However, never the stars and bars either, because the stars and bars was the first flag used, definitely not the flag depicted on the bikini.
I didn’t mean to state ONLY ignorant white southerners mis-interpret the flag, what I meant was that is how the misrepresentation started, by ignorant white southerners using the flag to represent their ‘clan’. So growing up in NY, you see the flag, people say, “oh, that represents racist, redneck southerners”, which is incorrect from a historical standpoint, but not incorrent in how it was/is used by these groups, most notably the KKK.
You know all this hatred is really stressing me, I say we have a debate on whether she should keep it on or off with her and her friends. Does anybody know where she will be?
[quote]conorh wrote:
BrownTrout wrote:
I hate when people equate the confederacy with white supremacy. Today the Civil War is remembered as little more than a conflict to liberate southern slaves, when in reality this was a side effect of the disavowing of the confederate states of America. The Civil War was about the institutionalization of the federal government and the Uniting of all the states under one supreme authority. I’m actually really afraid by how few people understand this.
I grew up on the Southern edge of a confederate border state and I used to tow this same party line. Now I’m not so sure. I definitely think that the Civil War was principally over state’s rights and limiting federal power, but in fact I think it was pretty clearly an issue of white supremacy and racism.
From CSA Vice President Stephens’ Cornerstone Speech:
(Jefferson’s) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. … Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerâ??stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery â?? subordination to the superior race â?? is his natural and normal condition.
That being said, in this day and age I don’t think it’s inherently racist to wear/display the Stars and Bars, but there’s probably significant correlation with racism. Of course, symbols mean different things to different folks and in different contexts. I probably wouldn’t wear a Stars and Bars buckle to an NAACP meeting.
My Dad has a lot of red bandannas, doesn’t make him a Blood, after all.[/quote]
There were 4 states that remained in the Union that had slavery. Lincoln never freed those slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation didnt free any slaves.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
I don’t quite think this is what Mlk was marching against.
Confederate flag doesn’t have to be racist, if Black Panther shirts aren’t.
I wonder how a black guy with a confederate flag shirt would do in a bar in Alabama?
prob alright
i think most people in the south look at it as a symbol of the south nowadays and not as a symbol of hatred as was mentioned earlier. meanings can change over time, ya know.
Please. If none of you have been anywhere near the south, quit speaking for it. It is still a symbol of racism to some people even though it is clearly acknowledged that times change and the responses it gets now are nothing like it would have gotten even 20 years ago. Most people just don’t care much anymore because racism isn’t as blatant as it once was. There are still some skin head groups that use it in its racist sense in southern states so trying to act like this doesn’t exist anymore makes little sense.
I am more amazed that some people in this thread were completely unaware of this.
[/quote]
eh… I’m not saying your wrong or anything. I just haven’t really noticed anything like that. As a amtter of fact not one time in my entire life. I grew up in the “dirty South” and lived there most of my life. I can honestly say that if crap like that goes on it’s with extremely isolated fringe groups, and not the least bit common.
Actually I take that back. When I lived in Atlanta I saw lots of racism, but that was blacks hating on whites.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I wonder how a black guy with a confederate flag shirt would do in a bar in Alabama?
[/quote]
Not to bad. I’ve seen a lot of brothers carry the rebel flag.
Plus if you think about it the American Flag has more years and a bigger territory under it that was racists.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
I don’t quite think this is what Mlk was marching against.
Confederate flag doesn’t have to be racist, if Black Panther shirts aren’t.
I wonder how a black guy with a confederate flag shirt would do in a bar in Alabama?
prob alright
i think most people in the south look at it as a symbol of the south nowadays and not as a symbol of hatred as was mentioned earlier. meanings can change over time, ya know.
Please. If none of you have been anywhere near the south, quit speaking for it. It is still a symbol of racism to some people even though it is clearly acknowledged that times change and the responses it gets now are nothing like it would have gotten even 20 years ago. Most people just don’t care much anymore because racism isn’t as blatant as it once was. There are still some skin head groups that use it in its racist sense in southern states so trying to act like this doesn’t exist anymore makes little sense.
I am more amazed that some people in this thread were completely unaware of this.
[/quote]
ive been to Las Vegas, i think thats near the “south”. it certainly isnt north.
im not saying racism doesnt exist in general, find me the sentence where i said that. what im saying is i think a lot (not all) of people use it more so to express pride than racism.
im sure theres plenty of people who still use it to promote racism but not everyone.
why do people think that racism only existed in the south?
boston was just as segregated and racist as the south except the white people here couldnt stand each other either.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
ive been to Las Vegas, i think thats near the “south”. it certainly isnt north.
im not saying racism doesnt exist in general, find me the sentence where i said that. what im saying is i think a lot (not all) of people use it more so to express pride than racism.
im sure theres plenty of people who still use it to promote racism but not everyone.
why do people think that racism only existed in the south?
boston was just as segregated and racist as the south except the white people here couldnt stand each other either. [/quote]
Las Vegas is not really in the South. Racism is as rampant as it always is. I think racism is underrated. Most people think they are better than others, so why wouldn’t a group of people proud to be a certain race think they are better than another race, and be vocal? Think about it Lincoln wanted to send the slaves back on the slave ships then burn the ships. Well, what do Americans want to do to the Mexicans?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
ive been to Las Vegas, i think thats near the “south”. it certainly isnt north.
im not saying racism doesnt exist in general, find me the sentence where i said that. what im saying is i think a lot (not all) of people use it more so to express pride than racism.
im sure theres plenty of people who still use it to promote racism but not everyone.
why do people think that racism only existed in the south?
boston was just as segregated and racist as the south except the white people here couldnt stand each other either.
Las Vegas is not really in the South. Racism is as rampant as it always is. I think racism is underrated. Most people think they are better than others, so why wouldn’t a group of people proud to be a certain race think they are better than another race, and be vocal? Think about it Lincoln wanted to send the slaves back on the slave ships then burn the ships. Well, what do Americans want to do to the Mexicans?[/quote]
Use us as slave labor and then deport us. Not necessarily in that order.