Is the Arms Up Compound Nautilus Biceps Curl Better?

I don’t think there is any harm or danger in pausing in the contracted position. Since you are stopped at a point where the muscle is still experiencing some tension, some further fatigue will develop. It just isn’t the optimal spot for exerting high muscle tension, and it isn’t necessary to fully recruit muscle fibers.

Here are a couple of things to think about.

  • Why were you being advised to pause in the contracted position? Was it to experience muscle tension in the fully shortened position, because that was thought to be necessary to achieve full muscle recruitment? Or was it just to slow down the movement, reduce the use of momentum, and make the rep feel more deliberate? Has the original rational for using a pause held up as knowledge of physiology advanced? Maybe the pause is useful, but not for the reasons originally stated?

  • When you paused at the most contracted position, are you sure that the muscle was fully shortened? Or did just go as far as you strength would allow, and grind against that point (which might have been 5 or 10% short of a full contraction)?

From the 30-10-30 Growth Explosion article:

THE 30-10-30 TECHNIQUE

My new technique is named 30-10-30. That stands for a 30-second slow negative repetition, followed immediately by 10 faster positive/negative reps (one second up, two seconds down) with controlled turnarounds, followed by a finishing 30-second negative rep. The entire set takes approximately 90 seconds; 70 seconds of it involves what I call “negative uncontractions.”

I don’t know about “squeezing” on the pause, but there’s no doubt pausing in the contracted position on single joint and pulling exercises makes the set harder. Increased fatigue? Maybe. Also makes a smoother transition to the negative. So, as you said, the pause may be beneficial, but not necessarily for the reasons some state.

I thought it was pretty well established that Jone’s early cams were too aggressive in the contracted position. I don’t know when they started to change that, or if Jones was even involved. But the data in that study is consistent with an aggressive cam in the finish position.
==Scott==
What makes this confusing is I still hear very knowledgeable people who talk about how great it is to have the cams so aggressive in the contracted position. I would normally just write this off as people who don’t know any better but I can’t do that in this case. I went to great lengths to modify several of my Nautilus machines to make the motion feel even so it’s frustrating to think that maybe I shouldn’t have done that ??
Scott

I just know that when I pause a second and tense in the contracted position be it a curl or seated row I really feel it more in the muscle being worked than if I didn’t pause and tense it. Whether that translates into a better worked muscle don’t know, it just feels good?
Scott

I can’t copy this to my phone…if you have the ebook on page 17 under 10 optimal positive reps the last sentence it says “you want yo nail the 10th rep with plenty of capacity left to squeeze the contracting muscle in preparation for the most important rep - the finishing 30 second negative” and then on page 19 under weight selection, he indicates “your job is to contract and uncontract the muscle”

Therefore, I did mis speak in saying to squeeze after each rep…however the technique does suggest contracting the muscle

Im one who likes the aggressive cam. Did u even out the cam by reducing the friction? Is it the friction we are actually speaking of?

Science dudes believe there are a few ways to make your muscles grow. Mechanical tension (heavy weights through full ROMs). Metabolic Stress (the pump). Muscle Damage (tearing the muscle with accentuated negatives or violent reversals at the bottom.)

So if you do that squeeze at the top, you might be able to extend your set a little longer, pump the working muscle up a little more, and like already mentioned, keep tension on the muscle using a deliberate pace. So the squeeze at the top is Good to enhance “the pump” or to grow your muscle through Metabolic Stress.

At the same time, that little squeeze at the top might limit the amount of weight you can use. Or the controlled pace might limit the violent turn around at the bottom of the motion. So lifting with the little squeeze might limit the growth you get from Mechanical Tension or Muscle Damage.

So squeeze on Light Day. And don’t squeeze on Heavy Day or Forceful, Explosive Day.

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No it not so much the friction that makes it aggressive , it’s the cam shape. On my plate loading pullover the cam lobe gets bigger as to get near contraction so after several reps (depending on the weight you use) it can get near impossible or very difficult to get into the contracted position.
Scott

Isn’t that what you want tho? Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but that is the feel i want. Where the fully contracted is near impossible to get to. That plate loaded does have a larger cam tho

Why do you want it to be near impossible to get to the contracted position? That just means you won’t be able to do complete range of motion pretty quick in the set . Half way through the set you’ll be doing half reps.
Scott

I guess its dependant on where we’re at in reps

The so-called “fully contracted position” (which is not even true as we now know) led to some less productive techniques in my opinion. Some people recommended doing nothing but a static hold set in that position such as on a pec deck, Nautilus curl, leg extension, or pulldown for example.

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I get that. Some people enjoy that feeling. But how do you know, objectively speaking, that getting that feel translates into better results?

That’s the big question , does it translate into results? I know for me sometimes the only time I really feel a muscle strongly is when I squeeze the muscle in the contracted position so with that in mind maybe it’s worth doing ?
While on the thought of feeling the muscle being worked I often wonder how important that is to muscle growth. It’s easy as pie for me to feel my biceps pretty much whatever exercise I use but I find it harder to really feel my delts and lats when I work them. Should I try and narrow down my selection of exercises to those where I feel the muscle the most or not worry about that ?
Scott

If doesn’t do anything, then why does Darden suggest doing it

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I don’t want to nit pick this to death. But the discussion was mostly about the value of pausing and contracting hard in the most shortened position of the muscle, and the value of an aggressive cam to facilitate grinding hard at the end of the ROM to accentuate that felling. You seem to be addressing this by using Dr. Darden’s advice about how to perform the 10th rep of 30-10-30.

So here is the section on page 17 that I think you are referring to….

Coming out of the bottom position of your first 30-second negative, the goal is to smoothly increase speed of movement of the first rep so that you are performing at a speed of one second up (positive), two seconds down (negative). Again, focus on putting your mind in the middle of exquisitely smooth, rhythmic muscle contractions and un-contractions. The goal is to fill the working muscle with blood and nutrients while fatiguing its fibers. You want to nail the 10th rep with plenty of capacity left to squeeze the contracting muscle in preparation for the most important rep — the finishing 30-second negative.

Now there is nothing there about pausing for a second at the end of every regular rep. And even the comment about the 10th rep doesn’t explicitly mention squeezing hard at the end of the range of motion. The overall context is using 10 rhythmic reps to pump blood into the muscle, and he wants you to be short of failure, and have enough strength left to squeeze particularly hard for that last rep. I take that to mean that you want to feel the muscle contracting hard for the entire range of motion, and not as an instruction to pause in the most shortened position and then squeeze hard at that point. If that is what he really meant, it isn’t explicitly stated as such. ‘Contracting’ of the muscle occurs over the entire range of motion; ‘most contracted/shortened’ occurs only at the very end of the ROM.

So I interpret this differently than you do. But I could be wrong. I guess if Dr. Darden wants to clarify what he meant, he can weigh in.

I don’t want to nit pick either. But, in the 'Exercise Cues and Tips" at the end of the ebook, the Leg Extension states to 'Contract/Squeeze quadriceps at the very top of the range of motion. Leg Curl states to ‘Pause and squeeze the hamstrings at the very top of the range of motion’.

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You can add the Bent-Over Row, Lateral Raise, Biceps and Reverse Curl to that list of pausing and squeezing. Not being a smart-ass, just say’in.

I don’t mind nit picking