Is sterility really the important part with injections? I was reading about making tren-a, and there are lots of steps where the tren oil is exposed to air. I also heard that the whatman filters only have luer locks on one side, I assume most people touch them, and reuse them to filter more than on syringe’s worth of oil. So, I doubt homebrew is sterile.
I’ve read about people IMing drugs without worrying about sterility, snd almost never getting infections. Also, from reading that injection sticky, it sounds like a lot of people get abcesses from injecting test-e or other oils that make a depot, or require injection of a lot of oil at once.
Maybe gear doesn’t have to be 100% sterile? It could be that if someone injects 4ml of oil with a lot of BA, it damages the tissue and makes it easier for an abcess to form.
If it isn’t that, does homebrew tren have to be 100% sterile if it’s just 1ml of GSO, no BA per injection??
Also, are there syringe filters with luer locks on both sides? I can only find filters with a lock on one side and a plain plastic tip on the other. Is there a way to attach a syringe to the plastic tip? I don’t get how people are able to filter into a sealed vial without two luer locks, unless they filter into an unsealed vial and then use a crimper to seal the vial.
I’m no expert, but logic tells me that no, your gear doesn’t have to be 100% sterile. I’ve come to this conclusion because I know there are a lot of people using shoddy homebrewing practices and aren’t getting infections.
Filtering the gear through a .2 Whatman in the first place will remove the bacteria. Adding BA will prevent new bacteria from growing. My understanding is that BA can also kill off some bacteria, although it shouldn’t be relied on for that. I’m guessing BB and other solvents would also make it difficult for bacteria to grow. Then, even if some bacteria does make it IM, your body isn’t completely defenseless against just any bacteria. My guess is it would require certain bacteria, or at least certain amounts of bacteria to cause problems.
It seems reasonable to me to assume that just exposing the filtered gear to a little bit of air is “safe”. There are a lot of homebrewers who buy unsterile, unsealed vials. Then they “sterilize” them somehow, which for most people probably just means rinsing them in rubbing alcohol and then baking them in the oven.
Then they pour the filtered gear into the open vial, exposing it to plenty of air, before capping the vial off. This method is obviously FAR from what would be considered “sterile” in a pharmaceutical setting, but based on what I’ve read in various browsing homebrewing forums, it seems his sort of practice is very common and infections aren’t a problem.
Some bacteria from the skin surface will penetrate the body on injection.
Most bacteria are not pathogenic (do not cause human disease.)
Bacterial infection is typically a matter of bacterial load, not a matter of a single bacterium leading to a developed infection.
It is easy to handle filters so as to not have the problems you suspect.
The concentration of bacteria of any sort in decently clean room air is low enough that brief exposure with proper care in handling is likely to yield only a very small number of bacteria “landing” in oil.
Few bacteria are small enough to make it through an 0.44 or smaller submicron filter (spores will go through however.)
Handling practices are probably rarely in an area of “careless, but still good enough for virtually zero risk.” They tend to either be proper, or crappy, I suppose.
A philosophy that bacteria must not matter on account of the filtering supposedly not working anyway, or whatever reasoning, will likely lead a home producer to a crappy sort of product.
I filtered very carefully. I had to filter into syringes though (which actually worked well), and I only had two .45 micron filters. I filled four syringes and used four new ones to draw the oil from the unsealed vial. Even though I was very careful, I had to do things like set the filters down into their little cases.
Even though I was careful, I’m sure the oil is not lab grade sterile. But, as you said, there are different types of bacteria. I’d bet most harmful bacteria are on the skin before swabbing, since the skin is great for growing bacteria, whereas fats with no water isn’t. I’m tempted to try to bake or boil the filled syringes quickly, at a low tempurate, but I’m not sure what the melting point is for the plastic.
It sounds like people use homebrew that isn’t 100% sterile and get good results. An abscess that goes all the way to the muscle sounds so bad though, it makes me worried. Are there any other tips to avoid abscesses? How about a heat pack after injection, or antibiotic ointment? If I inject 1mL of just GSO every day, can I just rotate between the VGs if there isn’t any soreness? If start injecting 2mL every day, do I need to use more injection sites? If I do get an abscess, how will I know? Will I get pain and inflammation the next day, or could it take longer to have symptoms? I wouldn’t want to inject more oil into a place that is already developing an infection.
The oil barely flows through 25g needles, it goes like one drop at a time. I’m guessing it won’t flow at all through a 27g? Is the oil supposed to be that thick, or did I do something wrong?
Thanks Bill Roberts and everyone else. It’s great having experts and e-celeberties guide me through all of this, it’s kept me from doing things incorrectly.
Oil going through a needle is a matter of patience.
Not only is it not necessary for 3 mL (or whatever volume) of oil to find its way into muscle into 10 seconds flat or even faster, it’s undesirable.
There are no super-conduits built in that are ready to shuttle oil away that fast.
Instead of oil being able to seep between muscle fibers, instead a 3 cc, or whatever volume cavity will be forced open when such speed is used. Therefore it is better not to use such speed.
Proper care when making a formulation combined with reasonable care in wiping the septum (stopper) of the vial, wiping the skin, and having a clean needle makes the risk of an abscess low.
Bacteria require, among other things, elements such as nitrogen, phosphorus, and sodium to be able to multiply. These should not be present in useful quantity in a steroidal oil preparation.
That is not to say that no one has ever made some nasty preparations: some have.
I dont understand the part about not being “100% sterile” if its not… how can you even use the term to describe it? It would be just considered not sterile wouldnt it?? And even considering to put this information on an open board is rather silly. People push the edges so when you start saying sterility isnt a big deal then I can just see some stupid kid taking this the wrong way and pushing the fine line your flirting with a bit further.