Homebrew: 2/10 Ratio for BA/BB?

Has anyone tried making Tren Ace or Test Prop with 10% BB?

I made some Test Prop @ 100mg/ml recently with 2% BA and 15% BB and it went perfectly.

Now I’m getting ready to make some Tren Ace @ 100mg/ml and am wondering if I should try bumping the BB down to 10%. So, it would be 2% BA, 10% BB, and Grapeseed Oil. Would it hold at 100mg/ml?

Also, would decreasing the BB even help reduce the pain?? I’ll be injecting ED and want to try to minimize the pain as much as possible as I want to avoid putting a damper on my lifting sessions due to muscle pain. I know the Tren Ace itself is responsible for causing pain, but I keep reading different opinions on whether or not the BB has a significant effect as well.

I’m NOT an expert, but I’ve brewed a few dozen times over the years and have always brewed 2/20 BA/BB. I’m sure you probably could get away with lowering the BB, but I’m not so sure that’s where your pain problem lies. I have always been under the assumption that BA was the painful solvent of the two. I’ve ALWAYS had problems with test-prop and pain afterwards.

I lowered my concentration down to 50 mg/ml and injected twice as much, which equals out to the same dosage, but diluted with more oil/solvents. I personally found this to work great for me, you may not want to go this route. I don’t mind injecting 2-3 mls instead of 1ml if I don’t limp for days afterwards! I would get football sized lumps and a fairly large amount of pain for several days after each injection. WE both know test-p is injected DAILY which means I literally limped through my ENTIRE cycle!

Make sure you are filtering well and working as sterile as possible. If you are and pain is still an issue, you may want to try my “pussy” route of lowering the concntration.

I believe that injection pain is mostly due to:

  1. Concentration (I remember reading an article regarding Tren Ace by Bill Roberts , where he said that lowering the concentration to 50mg/ml helps reduce injection issues)
  2. BA content (it looks like you have that dialed to the right percentage)
  3. The solubility of certain powders in oil

If anything I would think that more BB (up to a certain point) would be beneficial since it would help prevent the Tren from crystallizing once the BA is absorbed. I have no real experience with brewing and have only researched it. These are just some things to look into as the experts/vets chime in.

Tren ace gives you pain? That’s rare. I’ve heard of people experiencing pain with test prop, but not normally with tren ace. I certainly don’t experience any pain whatsoever with either tren ace or test prop brewed myself, both to 100mg/ml, though I may be less inclined physiologically to experience that sort of pain.

Still, I think generally the notion that prop and others of its ilk are “painful” is actually the product of shitty UGL produced gear becoming the norm.

Have you brewed your own tren before? Do you know it is going to give you pain? I’ve seen a number of painful gear threads here and participated in many, and there were not too many where we weren’t able to get to the bottom of the problem, and that problem never ended up being the powder or the BB. It was almost always either too much BA or a sterility issue.

2% BA is excellent, keep that. Lowering BB any more is not going to do anything to reduce pain, and may well have the opposite effect, if you cannot keep the gear in solution inside the muscle, and it is crystallizing there. Or it is just going to crash in the oil. Either way it’s a situation you don’t want. I, personally, would like to know how low you can go with BB, but I also personally don’t know, and would say the only way to figure it out is to experiment with very small batches little by little.

What kind of filtration system are you using?

Thanks for the replies.

Cortes, no, completely I am inexperienced with Tren Ace. This will be my first time with it (same with Prop). I’ve just read many times online about how some people get a lot of pain from their injections.

When you say “shitty” products coming out of UGL, you think it could have something to do with the BA content some of these guys might be using? I see a lot of recipes floating around that call for 5% BA. I’m no expert but that seems unnecessarily high.

If lowering the BB won’t help reduce pain, and Tren Ace itself isn’t very painful, why not instead bump up the BB and brew it at higher concentrations? I might be tempted to try 200mg/ml and see what happens. I will be running TA at about 50mg ED for my next cycle and if I only had to pin .25 ml the “pain reducing” benefits of smaller injection volume might outweigh the “pain increasing” effects of higher concentration. Your thoughts?

As for filtration, I am planning to run it through either a Whatman .2 or .45. I know .2 is considered safer, but it took forever to get the Prop I brewed through a .45 filter, and the idea of pushing 150ml of TA through .2 filters doesn’t sound very fun.

Read my thread on homebrewing. You had better filter good or suffer. Even good prop hurts me for week. I would never use a .45 to save time, because when your legs ache so bad you cannot work out, you have wasted allot of time and money. DO IT RIGHT!!

[quote]jMill2 wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

Cortes, no, completely I am inexperienced with Tren Ace. This will be my first time with it (same with Prop). I’ve just read many times online about how some people get a lot of pain from their injections.

When you say “shitty” products coming out of UGL, you think it could have something to do with the BA content some of these guys might be using? I see a lot of recipes floating around that call for 5% BA. I’m no expert but that seems unnecessarily high.

If lowering the BB won’t help reduce pain, and Tren Ace itself isn’t very painful, why not instead bump up the BB and brew it at higher concentrations? I might be tempted to try 200mg/ml and see what happens. I will be running TA at about 50mg ED for my next cycle and if I only had to pin .25 ml the “pain reducing” benefits of smaller injection volume might outweigh the “pain increasing” effects of higher concentration. Your thoughts?

As for filtration, I am planning to run it through either a Whatman .2 or .45. I know .2 is considered safer, but it took forever to get the Prop I brewed through a .45 filter, and the idea of pushing 150ml of TA through .2 filters doesn’t sound very fun.[/quote]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. See, I knew it. Every time with one of these threads, once the OP starts getting a bit more detailed about what’s actually going on, it immediately becomes clear what the problems are.

Here are your issues as I see them:

%BA. Go with 2%. As you surmise, 5% is ridiculously high. This is used by UGL’s most often, to compensate for an inability to achieve proper sterility. This is actually why I, more an more, would encourage guys who are going to make this a lifestyle to either fork over the extra money and go with pharm grade gear, or secure a reliable powder source and learn to homebrew. Homebrewed gear is orders of magnitude more safe than any UGL, including the big name UGLs like BD and GA, imo.

Filtration. Go with .2 or.22 whatman. Now the easiest, most efficient option, especially if you are brewing 150ml or more as you state, is to go with a bottle top filtration unit. They are absolute heaven, especially if you’ve been using (gag) syringe filters up to this point. However, these take a bit of initial set-up investment (most of it one-time) and some figuring out. I’ve explained in detail how to use them in another thread. Perhaps one of our members would be kind enough to link that thread, as I’ve forgotten which one it was.

If you are ready to go now and the bottle-top filtration system has to wait, then what you want to do is this: Go to the hardware store or, if you’re lucky, your garage, and get a heavy-duty caulking gun (should cost like 10 bucks, tops) and a couple of large washers of different sizes (like half dollar and old Eisenhauer silver doller sizes…I’m in Japan so mine are in cm and they are 3cm and 4cm diameter with a 0.8cm and 1cm hole, respectively). Then you’ll want to get a number of 20 or 30ml syringes. You can go with bigger, but the smaller ones have better compression because of the smaller size, but are about as small as you will want to practically go. I personally find 20ml syringes filled to the 25ml mark (full) to be just right. Okay, so now you will load up your syringe with your unfiltered oil, put the washers on over the tip, then, over that, you will screw on your .2 um whatman and your needle. Throw the entire thing in the caulking gun and you now have a quick and dirty (though sterile!!!) filtration compression device. Thanks once again to 5.0 for this idea! It is not my own.

Lastly, I do NOT suggest raising BB and going with a higher concentration. First, there’s a limit to how much powder the BB is going to help dissolve in oil. After a certain point, no extra amount of BB is going to do anything but be worse for our health. BB is not the worst thing ever to put in your body, but I would say that attempting to find the lowest possible amount you can safely put in would be a good thing. If you are not going to be shooting massive amounts of tren daily, then you don’t need a high ratio in the first place. Just go with 2/10 and brew with whole thing at 50mg/ml and have a completely painless brew. If you are going to be shooting a bit higher volume daily, then go with 2/20 and 100mg/ml, and, if you filter it right, I cannot see any reason why you should have any problems whatsoever with pain, because that’s what I do, and I NEVER have post injection pain of any kind with tren, or any of the steroids I brew, for that matter.

I am having trouble understanding how the bottle top filter is used for these purposes. How can this system be implemented when the receiving bottle is a pre-sealed vial? What am I missing here?

EDIT:
In the thread posted by IKIMURA, Cortes, you explained that “you will unscrew the top and throw it away, and either put a sterile cap (included) on the bottom unit [okay, this makes sense] or move directly to transferring your product to vials [I lose you here].”

So if I wanted to transfer the oil to vials right after, would I just draw the solution from the receiving unit using a syringe and follow the regular protocol of getting it into a sealed vial? If so, would this transfer not re-expose the oil?

EDIT
Nm, I continued reading the thread.

Cortes

You just sold me on getting a bottle-top filter. The caulking gun idea sounds like a good idea, but I think I am best off ditching syringe filters altogether. First I was apprehensive because I thought I would also need to buy a bunch of unsealed vials, stoppers, caps, and a capper along with, but after reading through the thread linked above I see I will not need to. It looks like all I will need to order is the Whatman ZapCap 0.2 filter, the hand pump, and a glass bottle to attach the filter to. Then, I will pour the filtered gear into the back of a 60ml syringe and inject it into sterile pre-sealed vials. I think my only question to you is when it comes to a handpump, how crucial is a pressure gauge? The place I was planning to order from only carries a handpump that has no gauge on it.

Thanks for all your valuable help!

[quote]jMill2 wrote:
Cortes

You just sold me on getting a bottle-top filter. The caulking gun idea sounds like a good idea, but I think I am best off ditching syringe filters altogether. First I was apprehensive because I thought I would also need to buy a bunch of unsealed vials, stoppers, caps, and a capper along with, but after reading through the thread linked above I see I will not need to. It looks like all I will need to order is the Whatman ZapCap 0.2 filter, the hand pump, and a glass bottle to attach the filter to. Then, I will pour the filtered gear into the back of a 60ml syringe and inject it into sterile pre-sealed vials. I think my only question to you is when it comes to a handpump, how crucial is a pressure gauge? The place I was planning to order from only carries a handpump that has no gauge on it.

Thanks for all your valuable help![/quote]

You’ll still have to make certain the glass bottle is sterile. I wouldn’t trust myself to sterilize a glass bottle, that’s why I would use the complete filter units. they are not really that much more expensive, anyway.

A pressure gauge is an absolute must. You will need to find your sweet spot (it is different depending upon the size of the containment vessel and the neck diameter) and stay there. Too little pressure and you won’t get any filtration. Too much and you’ll rupture your filter or your containment vessel (both have happened to me).

Any local hardware store should have a hand pump for draining brake lines with a pressure gauge on it. However, I’m surprised that the same place that is selling the filter units is not selling a pump to go with them. Unless they are sold out of hand pumps, of course.

The rest of your idea looks good.

Well shit, I got a little ahead of myself and already ordered the hand pump without a gauge. I figured if I didn’t place the order ASAP I would have to wait until after Christmas to get a hold of it. Yeah, I’m an impatient bastard. But, if I can get a pump from the hardware store, maybe when the other one comes I’ll just send it back.

The reason I opted for the filter top + glass bottle rather than the top + bottom units was because the place I ordered from only carries .2 filters by themselves. The top + bottom units are all .45. This might be a silly question, but can we openly discuss filter sources here?

Oh, wait, before hitting “submit” I just checked the other place I order supplies from. Sure enough, they’ve got the complete units, and to add insult to injury, it looks like they might be cheaper than the tops I bought. I’ll order from them next.

As for sterilizing the glass bottle I ordered, what if I rinsed it out with some 91% Isopropyl Alcohol and baked it in the oven? The product listing says “autoclavable to 180°C (356°F)”.

Temperature
170 degrees C (340 degrees F) - 1 hour
160 degrees C (320 degrees F) - 2 hours
150 degrees C (300 degrees F) - 2.5 hours
140 degrees C (285 degrees F) - 3 hour

[quote]jMill2 wrote:
Well shit, I got a little ahead of myself and already ordered the hand pump without a gauge. I figured if I didn’t place the order ASAP I would have to wait until after Christmas to get a hold of it. Yeah, I’m an impatient bastard. But, if I can get a pump from the hardware store, maybe when the other one comes I’ll just send it back.

The reason I opted for the filter top + glass bottle rather than the top + bottom units was because the place I ordered from only carries .2 filters by themselves. The top + bottom units are all .45. This might be a silly question, but can we openly discuss filter sources here?

Oh, wait, before hitting “submit” I just checked the other place I order supplies from. Sure enough, they’ve got the complete units, and to add insult to injury, it looks like they might be cheaper than the tops I bought. I’ll order from them next.

As for sterilizing the glass bottle I ordered, what if I rinsed it out with some 91% Isopropyl Alcohol and baked it in the oven? The product listing says “autoclavable to 180Ã?°C (356Ã?°F)”.[/quote]

My, you certainly were eager, weren’t you?

You can “sterilize” the glass bottle, but are you certain you are going to be able to get out all of the particles of dust, dirt, hair, pollen, dander, human skin, fecal matter, not to mention if it comes from a factory what, plastic? Glass particles? That’s the purpose of filtering in the first place. If it were okay just to bake something at Xdegrees, then we could just do that with the oil itself and never have to worry about the filtration process.

You may be able to get all of that shit out of there, but I, personally, would not feel comfortable doing it that way, and certainly not having done anything like that myself, could not advise you as to how to do so. That’s why I just opt for the complete filter units. No extra steps, worry, or brain work. Maybe you can find someplace that sells the bottom units separately. That’d be my advice.

Good luck.

As Cortes says above, sterilization does not imply pyrogen free.

Just buy a USP grade pyrogen free glass bottle

Since we are (or were) on the topic of painful esters, I thought I’d ask about Testosterone Acetate. Is this less painful that the Propionate ester?

There’s probably no way to say for sure until you try it. People respond differently to acetic and propionic acid compounds. Just because someone has injection pain from one, neither, or both doesn’t necessarily mean you will too. There are a few other variables that come into play as well.

I have used 2/10 with 50/50 EO (Ethyl Oleate) and grapeseed.

No pain whats-so-ever.