Is this the point where Bruce Lee’s supremacy gets thrown into the discussion?? LOL
I believe seagal is as insane as any person can be and still get to live outside the asylum. I believe silva gave him that front kick comment as a freebie just like Bas said, and it’s complete bullshit. I would never go for his advice on striking. Ever. And I think this thing is at least half pr stunt for seagal. That being said, people really give no credit whatsoever to aikido and it has a great joint lock and submission repetoire. Look, I get the fact that the way aikido is taught in the states has almost no striking, super formalized hierarchy, and is really often taught as complete garbage by a bunch of people who don’t know how to react in a real fight --at FULL SPEED. Who don’t have timing, sense of distance, etc.
That being said, though, there ARE people who know how to make use of its joint locks, and throws, really well. It’s no different from judo in that regard, except that judo has a wider competitive “full speed” system in which you can gain experience to apply judo outside of the mat and in the cage (ala parisyan). And some of these aikido locks can be applied on the ground in ways that bjj doesn’t “think”. Outside the box of regular angles, if you will.
So honestly, if you take a guy who has speed, timing, experience, and sense of distance–Silva–and show him some new joint locks for ground control or take down defense, or just even odd angle of attack stuff, he can make use of it. And good use too. Odd angles and unfamiliar moves throw fighters for a loop. Look at the trouble people had adjusting to machida.
I believe also that as batshit insane as seagal is, he knows his aikido joint locks and throws. The japanese don’t fuck around with their heritage, in japan. He’d never last in a cage fight, not in a million years, but parts of his knowledge base is valuable to people to see new things in common situations.
So basically, I don’t see how everybody thinks aikido is worthless. It has some valuable information on locks and throws that needs a better outlet. I believe the way most people teach it in the US makes it worthless, but then isn’t that the same story with “fitness trainers”, weight lifting, dieting, TKD, hell even boxing? A million other things have the same problem with the quality of instruction but you don’t see people ditching the other subjects wholesale as worthless.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I believe seagal is as insane as any person can be and still get to live outside the asylum. I believe silva gave him that front kick comment as a freebie just like Bas said, and it’s complete bullshit. I would never go for his advice on striking. Ever. And I think this thing is at least half pr stunt for seagal. That being said, people really give no credit whatsoever to aikido and it has a great joint lock and submission repetoire. Look, I get the fact that the way aikido is taught in the states has almost no striking, super formalized hierarchy, and is really often taught as complete garbage by a bunch of people who don’t know how to react in a real fight --at FULL SPEED. Who don’t have timing, sense of distance, etc.
That being said, though, there ARE people who know how to make use of its joint locks, and throws, really well. It’s no different from judo in that regard, except that judo has a wider competitive “full speed” system in which you can gain experience to apply judo outside of the mat and in the cage (ala parisyan). And some of these aikido locks can be applied on the ground in ways that bjj doesn’t “think”. Outside the box of regular angles, if you will. So honestly, if you take a guy who has speed, timing, experience, and sense of distance–Silva–and show him some new joint locks for ground control or take down defense, or just even odd angle of attack stuff, he can make use of it. And good use too. Odd angles and unfamiliar moves throw fighters for a loop. Look at the trouble people had adjusting to machida.
I believe also that as batshit insane as seagal is, he knows his aikido joint locks and throws. The japanese don’t fuck around with their heritage, in japan. He’d never last in a cage fight, not in a million years, but parts of his knowledge base is valuable to people to see new things in common situations.
So basically, I don’t see how everybody thinks aikido is worthless. It has some valuable information on locks and throws that needs a better outlet. I believe the way most people teach it in the US makes it worthless, but then isn’t that the same story with “fitness trainers”, weight lifting, dieting, TKD, hell even boxing? A million other things have the same problem with the quality of instruction but you don’t see people ditching the other subjects wholesale as worthless.[/quote]
Great post.
It surfaced a rumor this week at middleeasy that Steven Seagal is actually paying to have access to UFC post fight stuff on fight night.
Kaisermetal, what is your beef with Seagal? I mean…in general…not just with regards to the UFC. You have thrown some pretty outlandish allegations out there about him, and then used Google as your reference point?
I am curious…have you had other dealings with him that have made you dislike him so much? Do you personally know, for a fact, that his biography is BS, as you stated? How do you know, for a fact, that he banged his sensei’s daughter to get the privilege of teaching in Japan?
I don’t have an opinion about the guy one way or the other. I’m just curious why you have taken such a strong stance against the guy.
because he is a fad only looking to have some lights over him.
I think it’s obvious that Seagal helped Silva to be the fighter he is today. After all Segal is a 7th degree Aikdo black belt, and we all know how well practioners of Aikdo have done in mma.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think it’s obvious that Seagal helped Silva to be the fighter he is today. After all Segal is a 7th degree Aikdo black belt, and we all know how well practioners of Aikdo have done in mma.[/quote]
While valid to a point, couldn’t we have said the same thing about Karate prior to Machida’s emergence on the scene? Or how about Capoeira or crazy jumping off the fence round kicks to the head prior to Anthony Pettis being successful with such techniques?
My point is that we as Martial Artists/fans shouldn’t get caught up in the “this style is better than that style” mindset. Just about every system has things to offer, some more than others perhaps, but still. To close your mind to what someone is teaching simply because of it’s place/style of origin will potentially leave you missing out on knowledge that could have potentially helped you. Sure, sometimes you have to wade through a bunch of crap till you find that diamond in the rough, and the more experienced/knowledgeably you are the less often those “eureka” moments are going to come. But thinking that you/a style already has all the answers is short sighted IMO.
That’s pretty much the mindset many systems had prior to the emergence of the UFC/MMA. “Our style is the best; we don’t need to cross train in (insert style).” Yet, pretty much all of them were proven wrong. Now many MMA fighters/fans have adopted the same elitest mindset but towards styles which are most commonly trained for MMA (Boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, BJJ, maybe Judo and Sambo). Yes, those are all excellent systems, but that doesn’t mean that systems other than those couldn’t also have useful bits of information.
No one is suggesting that Steven Seagal made Anderson Silva or Lyoto Machida the fighters they are today. But why is it so ridiculous to think that he could have taught them a tweak or set-up for that front kick which allowed them to land it with more success/consistency? Why not just accept that they could both be totally sincere about giving him credit for that kick?
Sento, I agree with most of what you wrote but:
It IS very hard to believe.
Pointkarate, as in the style that his father taught him and his three competing brothers since birth and which he lives and breathes at his family’s dojo , is FULL of such setups, whereas Aikido is void of such things.
Not to forget, Seagal is an overweight actor grasping for attention.
My new dream: win a UFC match with a 360° split helicopter kick thanks to Van Damme. Or maybe Frank Dux?
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think it’s obvious that Seagal helped Silva to be the fighter he is today. After all Segal is a 7th degree Aikdo black belt, and we all know how well practioners of Aikdo have done in mma.[/quote]
While valid to a point, couldn’t we have said the same thing about Karate prior to Machida’s emergence on the scene? Or how about Capoeira or crazy jumping off the fence round kicks to the head prior to Anthony Pettis being successful with such techniques?[/quote]
No, because of the examples that you just gave. What you are saying is that those practitioners have actually won major fights. Where are all the mma Aikido champions? (Crickets chirping). Okay how about all the high level mma Aikido fighters? (more crickets chirping).
See what I’m saying?
I disagree I think we should get caught up in this style is better than that style mind-set Know why? Because some styles are just flat out better than others for mma. And we can actually see which ones are better by taking a look at all of the champions backgrounds. Let’s do that sometime it would be fun.
Or wasted your time. Whereas spending more time on the techniques that really work would be a productive use of your time. I remember reading a story back in the early days of the UFC. Dan Severn was fighting Tank Abbott and prior to the fight Severn trained part of the time using George Dillmans “deadly” pressure point system. It was funny to watch. After Severn took Abbott down he began trying these wacky pressure points as he had complete control. Of course none of them worked. Now one could say that Severn was not experienced enough to use such techniques, okay, fair enough. But that was 16 (or so) years ago, someone must be good at such pressure points, right? So where are they? Why weren’t they utilized? I’m not saying never learn new techniques. On the contrary I’m saying learn all the new techniques that can actually help you win.
Think about that. What you’re saying is if a boxer for example learns how to kick efficiently he’ll be better. And who could possibly disagree with that? We completely agree, all mma fighters should cross train as much as possible in fighting systems that actually work, and they do. My only point (and we’ve already addressed it in the first response) is that Akido is worthless for mma. And I stand behind that. But I am open minded enough to change my mind when a great Akido fighter comes along - But I’m not holding my breath.
I accept the fact that it could have happened. But, I actually think there is a higher degree of possibility that there is an association going on here. Seagal wants his name associated with mma and the fighters want their name associated with Seagal, everyone wins. I am not a Seagal hater, I just don’t think that it went down the way it’s being explained.
Come now…
Do you honestly think that Steven Seagal taught Machida, a life long Karataka champion how to do a front kick?
If you do I have some property in Florida that I’d like to sell you sight unseen.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Sento, I agree with most of what you wrote but:
It IS very hard to believe.
Pointkarate, as in the style that his father taught him and his three competing brothers since birth and which he lives and breathes at his family’s dojo , is FULL of such setups, whereas Aikido is void of such things.
Not to forget, Seagal is an overweight actor grasping for attention.
My new dream: win a UFC match with a 360�° split helicopter kick thanks to Van Damme. Or maybe Frank Dux?[/quote]
Van Damme helped Fedor we all know what happened BLOODSPORT ON PRIDE!
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
i don’t think you quite understand Seagals background. this guy was one of the few if only white americans to actually teach in japan. do you know how good you have to be for japanese guys to take a white guy seriously, to teach in their home country. years ago, when seagal would hold seminars, guys from around the world would come to see him. regardless of what you think of his movies(in my opinion, some of the best action movies ever made) he is one of the highest ranked aikido practitioners in the world. watch some of his videos when he was in japan teaching. how smooth and explosive he is.
Do you really think machida and silva need a near 60 yr old, no longer making prime time movies, except for Machete, that was a main movie. do you really think those world class fighters need him for anything to appeal to america. get real dude. if that was the case, he would just come at the night of their fight and walk down the isle with them. instead he flies down to them spends days with them training with them. do you really think Silva would bow to seagal and call him Sensai if he didn’t take him serious. machida and silva are very proud men, they don’t need him or anyone else for some gimick.[/quote]
Not so fast (been doing MA for 30+ years). Seagal married a Japanese woman and inherited a chain of Dojos. My friends that live in Japan tells me he markets it as American martial arts – he is most emphatically not trying to out-Japanese them. His gimmick there is that Americans are really good at fighting and so the Japanese should learn it from him. As a martial artist, he is ok – not great, just ok. There was that unfortunate time he got choked out repeatedly by one of Gene LaBelle’s students, but we don’t talk about that…
In the Martial arts world, you show respect to those that came before you. Machada and Silva, to their credit, are treating him right and I’m sure he has some interesting ideas on training. But then again, as long as he’s been doing it, he better. Question is if he has as many good ideas for his time in grade as others (I think not, the times I’ve heard him speak, but that is just me.)
Oh and my friends in Law Enforcement thought he was a good joke with his reality-based cop show. Mostly Seagal is hype. As long as he has been doing it I think he ought to be better and he is way too stuck up to put up with.
And as always, I might just be full of shit…
– jj
[quote]jj-dude wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
i don’t think you quite understand Seagals background. this guy was one of the few if only white americans to actually teach in japan. do you know how good you have to be for japanese guys to take a white guy seriously, to teach in their home country. years ago, when seagal would hold seminars, guys from around the world would come to see him. regardless of what you think of his movies(in my opinion, some of the best action movies ever made) he is one of the highest ranked aikido practitioners in the world. watch some of his videos when he was in japan teaching. how smooth and explosive he is.
Do you really think machida and silva need a near 60 yr old, no longer making prime time movies, except for Machete, that was a main movie. do you really think those world class fighters need him for anything to appeal to america. get real dude. if that was the case, he would just come at the night of their fight and walk down the isle with them. instead he flies down to them spends days with them training with them. do you really think Silva would bow to seagal and call him Sensai if he didn’t take him serious. machida and silva are very proud men, they don’t need him or anyone else for some gimick.[/quote]
Not so fast (been doing MA for 30+ years). Seagal married a Japanese woman and inherited a chain of Dojos. My friends that live in Japan tells me he markets it as American martial arts – he is most emphatically not trying to out-Japanese them. His gimmick there is that Americans are really good at fighting and so the Japanese should learn it from him. As a martial artist, he is ok – not great, just ok. There was that unfortunate time he got choked out repeatedly by one of Gene LaBelle’s students, but we don’t talk about that…
In the Martial arts world, you show respect to those that came before you. Machada and Silva, to their credit, are treating him right and I’m sure he has some interesting ideas on training. But then again, as long as he’s been doing it, he better. Question is if he has as many good ideas for his time in grade as others (I think not, the times I’ve heard him speak, but that is just me.)
Oh and my friends in Law Enforcement thought he was a good joke with his reality-based cop show. Mostly Seagal is hype. As long as he has been doing it I think he ought to be better and he is way too stuck up to put up with.
And as always, I might just be full of shit…
– jj[/quote]
inherited the dojo’s or not. if he sucked as a teacher, nobody would be at his school. ive seen old videos of him, and most obviously is extremely confident in what he says and believes. i think nobody would ever disagree with his confidence in himself and his ability. and that alone can motivate guys.
he is a commanding looking dude. whether or not he was an average martial artist, which i think he was far superior to average, but even if he was average, his mindset and his belief in himself was far above average and that can translate to motivating his students.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think it’s obvious that Seagal helped Silva to be the fighter he is today. After all Segal is a 7th degree Aikdo black belt, and we all know how well practioners of Aikdo have done in mma.[/quote]
While valid to a point, couldn’t we have said the same thing about Karate prior to Machida’s emergence on the scene? Or how about Capoeira or crazy jumping off the fence round kicks to the head prior to Anthony Pettis being successful with such techniques?
My point is that we as Martial Artists/fans shouldn’t get caught up in the “this style is better than that style” mindset. Just about every system has things to offer, some more than others perhaps, but still. To close your mind to what someone is teaching simply because of it’s place/style of origin will potentially leave you missing out on knowledge that could have potentially helped you. Sure, sometimes you have to wade through a bunch of crap till you find that diamond in the rough, and the more experienced/knowledgeably you are the less often those “eureka” moments are going to come. But thinking that you/a style already has all the answers is short sighted IMO.
That’s pretty much the mindset many systems had prior to the emergence of the UFC/MMA. “Our style is the best; we don’t need to cross train in (insert style).” Yet, pretty much all of them were proven wrong. Now many MMA fighters/fans have adopted the same elitest mindset but towards styles which are most commonly trained for MMA (Boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, BJJ, maybe Judo and Sambo). Yes, those are all excellent systems, but that doesn’t mean that systems other than those couldn’t also have useful bits of information.
No one is suggesting that Steven Seagal made Anderson Silva or Lyoto Machida the fighters they are today. But why is it so ridiculous to think that he could have taught them a tweak or set-up for that front kick which allowed them to land it with more success/consistency? Why not just accept that they could both be totally sincere about giving him credit for that kick?[/quote]
Couple of points to ponder.
-
Martial arts systems are reference books (how else could you hope to preserve some such exacting set of physical moves for posterity?) .
-
Martial arts are specific tools for a specific purpose. Historically, these were what we would call a MOS (military occupation specialty) today. Once upon a time shooting arrows or hacking people with swords was someone’s job.
-
Martial arts should contain techniques that give you an advantage. Many techniques in MMA do not. They are intended for elite athletes at the top of their game. Think about that. You’ve got to be in top-notch shape to use them and they are best deployed as late game moves against another trained fighter.
So where am I going with this? Look, when people say martial art X is better than Y they are confusing the content of the art with the training. I can give you a really minimalist martial art (boxing) and train the Hell out of it and you will be a handful. I can give you an enormous martial art that has a technique for every possible situation which is all but unlearnable (Hapkido, “Art of 10,000 techniques” comes to mind). So, just because someone studied X and is unbeaten doesn’t mean squat unless they can take any nice little old lady and repeat it. They might be a really gifted athlete or work like their ass is on fire.
Oh and the most uniformly deadly martial arts are American, since they all involve shooting a firearm. I’m serious. These are martial arts and they work. Just think though about the gap between effectiveness and practical usage. See, if you wanted to make the ultimate deadly martial art, you’d take use Army sniper training as a basis for it. Of course, the real-life applications of this super deadly martial art are somewhat limited. Mostly what people mean about effective is that it is good for social not predatory violence. Next time someone talks about the most effective martial art, use my proposed one as an example. It has a darned near 100% kill rate. People get roughed up in MMA bouts, but serious injuries are fairly rare and deaths almost never happen. The main UFC site even touts how much safer than boxing it is and they want to make it into an Olympic sport too (and they just might).
So what about Aikido? Simple people. It is not a martial art. Nope. I’m saying that as a pro. It was taken from an old, very good system called Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu which Ueshiba had studied (yes I am quite familiar with it and am head instructor of a related Aikijujtsu school, 'k?). Ueshiba was a fundamentalist Shintoist who belonged to a weird cult called the Omoto kyo which, among other things, believed that the good gods would only return to Earth when enough good karma was here. So Ueshiba retooled his training as a means to foster good karma and in doing so systematically defanged every technique he took from the old Daito ryu. Everytime people do Aikido they are supposed to be hastening the return of the gods through co-operative practice. Daito ryu is wikked kewl and Seagal sort of tried to reverse what Ueshiba did, at least on film, i.e., he added back in some striking and other things, but his system was based off of karate and some boxing, so it just doesn’t go with his joint work and to my eyes looks, well, flashy but a might odd.
And as always, I might just be full of shit…
– jj
Edit: One pet peeve about Ueshiba is why his students were in rapt awe of his abilities. I’ve seen him on old videos and when he needs for a technique to really work, he cranks one from Daito ryu on them them, but he did not teach this to his students. No wonder they were impressed. His early students did learn this when he was still running a Daito ryu school and they broke away when he had his spiritual awakening to form the Yoseikan Budo, which is pretty good.
jj-Dude,
Thank you for posting that perspective.
I was under the impression it was Gene LeBell himself that choked out Seagal on a film set.
Thread Drift Warning:
Are you referring to Shioda’s system? I have always seen that written as Yoshinkan Aikido.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Robert A wrote:
I was under the impression it was Gene LeBell himself that choked out Seagal on a film set.
[/quote]
I have heard multiple stories about it and each one crazier than the one before it. The most logical one I have heard was Seagal was talking some crap about how he couldnt be choked out because he could control his breathing or blood flow because of his ki. He sat down and proceeded to get choked out.
I have also heard it was a full blown fight and Lebell kicked his ass and choked him out but that doesnt sound likely seems he still works in Hollywood. Choking out a star of a movie in a fight isnt gonna get you more work in Hollywood.
Segal started his own form of aikido called tenshin aikido. Instead of using strikes to disrupt or annoy the attacker it uses them as an offensive weapon. People who have studied under him have said it is the most brutal form aikido training they have ever done. If aikido wasn’t effective why would the Japanese tain their entire police force in it?
The reason why you don’t seee it in MMA is because to use it effectivly you need to train for years. My cousin takes aikido and his instructor is a retired NJ state cop. He would work undr cover in latino gangs in Newark and Camden. Try telling him aikido is uneffective. He personally has met Segal and said he is the real deal, that his hands are so fast you can’t feel him grab you.
As far as the poster who says that aikido isn't a martial art I guess BJJ isn't either by your standards. Ushiba once took a 18 year old Judo champ down when he was in his 60's. The Judo champ spent the rest of his life training underneath him.
I know segual is a tool but he is very knowlegable in all martial arts not just aikido. The MMA fighters think he is effective who are we to say they are lying.
[quote]punchedbear wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
I was under the impression it was Gene LeBell himself that choked out Seagal on a film set.
[/quote]
I have heard multiple stories about it and each one crazier than the one before it. The most logical one I have heard was Seagal was talking some crap about how he couldnt be choked out because he could control his breathing or blood flow because of his ki. He sat down and proceeded to get choked out.
I have also heard it was a full blown fight and Lebell kicked his ass and choked him out but that doesnt sound likely seems he still works in Hollywood. Choking out a star of a movie in a fight isnt gonna get you more work in Hollywood. [/quote]
The fullest version I’ve read, which stemmed from a thread posted on Bullshido some time ago was that on the set of Under Seige Segal had been boasting and bragging about his overall greatness to the stuntmen and the subject of chi was brought up. Steven proclaimed that he had a greater than normal control over his chi and could thus control blood flow throughout his body or some shit. Gene Lebell who was nearby (as it was his stunt crew) caught wind of this, approached him and called him out; assuring Steven that he could in fact choke him out. Steven apparently never even knew who Gene was and so stepped up to the challenge.
Now Gene didn’t like Steven. Apparently he was a total dick to Gene’s stunt crew, overly rough with the manhandling during scenes, so when Gene got this opportunity he got stuck right in but Steven immediately tapped and said it wasn’t fair as he wasn’t ready. Gene backed off and told him fine, let me know when you ARE ready. Steven composed himself, told Gene “ok” and as Gene went to apply the choke Steven reached down and tried to grab Gene by the balls, to which Gene backed up with him, still applying the hold… until his lights went out, which apparently happened as quickly as any other mortal man. Also, as sometimes happens, Steven pissed and shat his panties and considering he was such a dick about the whole thing Gene and co dragged him across the room and stuffed him into a locker.
When Steven came to he was furious and immediately had Gene and his crew fired and told them they’d never work in the movies again. I don’t know how it came around exactly but the threat of publicly coming forth with the story saw the team re-hired by the producers however on the proviso that no one involved publicly recounted the tale. Of course it came out anyway in a tabloid of some sort…
however, it is just a story. Bottom line is only the people who were there can fully comment on what truly happened. But having read that story and listened to a radio interview on it (will try to find both these sources and link them back here for anyone interested) I tend to believe that there’s at least some truth in it.
Steven was acting like a dick (not uncommon for him apparently if you consider all the rumours), got choked out, and continued to be a dick.
Note I am making no comment on his Aikido ability or ability to train others, nor indeed his firearms skills which he is also ‘supposedly’ highly regarded for.
edit - appears the film was Out For Justice, not Under Siege, my bad.
LOL! Edit 2, just to show how much a story can grow in the re-telling, this is the original source I caught this story in a couple of years ago. MTripps post on bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92170&page=2&highlight=steven+segal
Youtube interview with Jon Wertheim on the subject
and if Jon Wertheim is writing about it you can pretty much guarantee there’s some truth to it, considering neither party has come forth to refute or confirm the story.
[quote]nmj1199 wrote:
Segal started his own form of aikido called tenshin aikido.
[/quote]
No he did not. Here is a good description of it:
http://www.aikidotacoma.org/what_is_tenshin_aikido.htm
They do not. The Japanese police have their own system of restraints and takedowns called Taiho jutsu, which includes a lot of training with the keibo or short baton. Seagal might have done some police seminars, but to claim he trains their entire police force is sheer nonsense. I know senior Taiho jutsu instructors and Seagal has nothing to do with them.
[quote] As far as the poster who says that aikido isn't a martial art I guess BJJ isn't either by your standards. Ushiba once took a 18 year old Judo champ down when he was in his 60's. The Judo champ spent the rest of his life training underneath him. I know segual is a tool but he is very knowlegable in all martial arts not just aikido. The MMA fighters think he is effective who are we to say they are lying.
[/quote]
To be clear, Aikido as Ueshiba did it was anything but a martial art in the sense most people want one to be and most Aikido dojos are pretty darned fruity and filled with New Agers who have no interest at all at training for a specific combative application. This is like Taiji. I do know at least one seriously kick butt Taiji practitioner (Wim Demeere) but the point is that he trains like he means it and takes the accumulated wisdom in his art (of which there is a lot in Taiji though you’d never know it looking at most groups outside of China.)
Aikido techniques are close enough to useful ones that people who study them are forever trying to turn them back into a martial art, but doing so will always be less effective, since it just is the work of individuals. Sure I know cops who have studied Aikido and might be able to pull off a technique in a live fire situation but the bulk of their ability comes from an understanding of tactical/strategic considerations that they did not learn from the art, since it was removed. Said more plainly, the average Aikidoka has received little in practical application from their art. If they have this ability, it is because they added it from somewhere else.
– jj
From the non combat side of the spectrum. I mean martial arts training , Seagal is considered to be a fraud . Seagal has made ridiculous claims on his shooting ability and past CIA past .