Is Jeet Kune Do a Legit System?

Training
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[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
To the OP. If you want to learn how to fight then take boxing or Muay Thai. A striking art is going to be fine in most situations for self defense barring weapons. Just make sure you’re sparring regularly. You won’t learn to fight if you’re not sparring. [/quote]

Fight? Funny… I’ve only been in a handful of them – so I’m no expert – and they all turned into really sloppy sumo after about 3 seconds. People that want to duel will square off and continue to punch or kick if that is their training. People that want to assault you throw a punch or two then grab you so you can’t hit back, if you’re still standing. Course, YMMV. So are we talking about duelling or assaulting here?

I never even got remotely close to doing a kick in any of them (and I got a 2nd degree Black belt in TKD, did kickboxing tournies for a few years, so I’m a pretty passable kicker too. Whether that type of kicking will stop someone is one question, my point is that picking up a foot that high was at no point a good option. You can’t absorb real powerful hits so well perched on one leg.) Not too much punching either (and I did boxing for a couple of years too and love it dearly.) The encounters ended with either me TKO-ing the guy with a hard throw (few times), a choke and one time I busted the guy’s arm really good. Sparring helped me think on my feet, but virtually none of those tools transferred directly… Striking arts, by and large, are great for starting fights where you can throw the first punch or 5, but not so good if the other guy starts. Sparring is easy. Hitting someone back who’s hellbent on beating you to a pulp is harder than you think, and kicking them ain’t gonna happen unless it’s a fluke.

– jj

62

[quote]jj-dude wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
To the OP. If you want to learn how to fight then take boxing or Muay Thai. A striking art is going to be fine in most situations for self defense barring weapons. Just make sure you’re sparring regularly. You won’t learn to fight if you’re not sparring. [/quote]

Fight? Funny… I’ve only been in a handful of them – so I’m no expert – and they all turned into really sloppy sumo after about 3 seconds. People that want to duel will square off and continue to punch or kick if that is their training. People that want to assault you throw a punch or two then grab you so you can’t hit back, if you’re still standing. Course, YMMV. So are we talking about duelling or assaulting here?

I never even got remotely close to doing a kick in any of them (and I got a 2nd degree Black belt in TKD, did kickboxing tournies for a few years, so I’m a pretty passable kicker too. Whether that type of kicking will stop someone is one question, my point is that picking up a foot that high was at no point a good option. You can’t absorb real powerful hits so well perched on one leg.) Not too much punching either (and I did boxing for a couple of years too and love it dearly.) The encounters ended with either me TKO-ing the guy with a hard throw (few times), a choke and one time I busted the guy’s arm really good. Sparring helped me think on my feet, but virtually none of those tools transferred directly… Striking arts, by and large, are great for starting fights where you can throw the first punch or 5, but not so good if the other guy starts. Sparring is easy. Hitting someone back who’s hellbent on beating you to a pulp is harder than you think, and kicking them ain’t gonna happen unless it’s a fluke.

– jj[/quote]

Agreed. Especially regarding kicking. I have never seen or thrown an effective kick in any type of a serious dust up. Knees in a clinch are about as close as it ever seems to get. A few straight boxing type shots thrown preemptively before either party closes the distance can sometimes bypass this if even one of the lands clean, but “sloppy sumo” is generally about it. That said if one person can land even one effective strike it turns the tide of that whole shove and cuddle pretty quick.

63

[quote]batman730 wrote:

Agreed. Especially regarding kicking. I have never seen or thrown an effective kick in any type of a serious dust up. Knees in a clinch are about as close as it ever seems to get. A few straight boxing type shots thrown preemptively before either party closes the distance can sometimes bypass this if even one of the lands clean, but “sloppy sumo” is generally about it. That said if one person can land even one effective strike it turns the tide of that whole shove and cuddle pretty quick.[/quote]

One time I caught a guy’s kick and threw him through a doorway. I never kicked myself after that.

One good shot without gloves can end a fight if you know how to punch.

64

Agree with Irish. I was getting grief in a bar from some little dick with a ‘black belt’ in ‘full contact’ karate who was part of a group of mates I was with. Never met the guy before that night. This kid kept pushing it, saying he’d kick my arse etc, meanwhile I, model citizen that i am, I was doing my best not to smack him in his smart mouth. So long story short, he launched a kick at my head in the doorway of some bar, I caught his heel, and followed his momentum upwards flipping him off his standing foot so he came down on his head. Only time in my life anyone has thrown a kick at me.

Terrible idea to throw kicks in my opinion. If a mug like me who has never defended one before in his life can see it coming a mile off, pretty good chance it isn’t an effective technique in the street.

65

I will try and re post those videos I don’t know why it should work though did the people that looked click on the links? Anyways Yeah anyone can tell you kicking in a fight is a bad idea but the reason is simple enough and this is where being smart and practical comes in… Kicks can work in the street perfectly fine and well but for the majority of the time they have to stay LOW… You can technically kick someone in the head but it is a dumb move that leaves you vulnerable and unless you have perfect speed, timing, distance, and awareness there is no real point plus there is a million better things to do, it is very unpractical because of the amount of time and follow through that it requires… why kick in the head when a quick lead straight to the jaw can suffice… Though you can easily break someones knee or kick the groin with your foot with plenty of speed and without leaving yourself open… Again it takes alot of dedication and repitition and application. Street fighting is an art in in itself as I have said… Completely different then sport martial arts… For example you catch me on the street I might do some dirty fighting tricks that people never learn elsewhere such as stepping on your foot to immobilize you and once I catch you offguard you better believe I am not stopping until your down for the count… Boxing is an awesome and great art to use but the stance most people use in the street leaves their groin wide open and you need kicking for distance its alot longer of a weapon then your fist… If you do not know how to kick properly thats on you but it does not mean its useless, though again as I said its retarded to try and kick someone in the head, you should be aiming for ankles, knees, groin, or if you can hit their head down low or lean them forward you can easily hit someone hard in the solorplexus etc… … also most people dont realize things such as people striking the eyes and throat they just always seem to think its going to turn into a slug match or brawl which 99% of the time it does but you get someone that trains for the street seriously and you may just have your eyes opened a bit more.

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[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
I will try and re post those videos I don’t know why it should work though did the people that looked click on the links? Anyways Yeah anyone can tell you kicking in a fight is a bad idea but the reason is simple enough and this is where being smart and practical comes in… Kicks can work in the street perfectly fine and well but for the majority of the time they have to stay LOW… You can technically kick someone in the head but it is a dumb move that leaves you vulnerable and unless you have perfect speed, timing, distance, and awareness there is no real point plus there is a million better things to do, it is very unpractical because of the amount of time and follow through that it requires… why kick in the head when a quick lead straight to the jaw can suffice… Though you can easily break someones knee or kick the groin with your foot with plenty of speed and without leaving yourself open… Again it takes alot of dedication and repitition and application. Street fighting is an art in in itself as I have said… Completely different then sport martial arts… For example you catch me on the street I might do some dirty fighting tricks that people never learn elsewhere such as stepping on your foot to immobilize you and once I catch you offguard you better believe I am not stopping until your down for the count… Boxing is an awesome and great art to use but the stance most people use in the street leaves their groin wide open and you need kicking for distance its alot longer of a weapon then your fist… If you do not know how to kick properly thats on you but it does not mean its useless, though again as I said its retarded to try and kick someone in the head, you should be aiming for ankles, knees, groin, or if you can hit their head down low or lean them forward you can easily hit someone hard in the solorplexus etc… … also most people dont realize things such as people striking the eyes and throat they just always seem to think its going to turn into a slug match or brawl which 99% of the time it does but you get someone that trains for the street seriously and you may just have your eyes opened a bit more.
[/quote]

How many real fights or street/bar altercations have you been in?

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[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
I will try and re post those videos I don’t know why it should work though did the people that looked click on the links? Anyways Yeah anyone can tell you kicking in a fight is a bad idea but the reason is simple enough and this is where being smart and practical comes in… Kicks can work in the street perfectly fine and well but for the majority of the time they have to stay LOW… You can technically kick someone in the head but it is a dumb move that leaves you vulnerable and unless you have perfect speed, timing, distance, and awareness there is no real point plus there is a million better things to do, it is very unpractical because of the amount of time and follow through that it requires… why kick in the head when a quick lead straight to the jaw can suffice… Though you can easily break someones knee or kick the groin with your foot with plenty of speed and without leaving yourself open… Again it takes alot of dedication and repitition and application. Street fighting is an art in in itself as I have said… Completely different then sport martial arts… For example you catch me on the street I might do some dirty fighting tricks that people never learn elsewhere such as stepping on your foot to immobilize you and once I catch you offguard you better believe I am not stopping until your down for the count… Boxing is an awesome and great art to use but the stance most people use in the street leaves their groin wide open and you need kicking for distance its alot longer of a weapon then your fist… If you do not know how to kick properly thats on you but it does not mean its useless, though again as I said its retarded to try and kick someone in the head, you should be aiming for ankles, knees, groin, or if you can hit their head down low or lean them forward you can easily hit someone hard in the solorplexus etc… … also most people dont realize things such as people striking the eyes and throat they just always seem to think its going to turn into a slug match or brawl which 99% of the time it does but you get someone that trains for the street seriously and you may just have your eyes opened a bit more.
[/quote]

You know, that’s all well and fine in theory and if someone can actually execute it under the stress and chaos of a real fight, more power to them. I just don’t really see much of what you’re describing as the type of simple, imprecise, high percentage, gross motor based stuff that I would go to or suggest someone I was teaching go to in a real situation where their ass is on the line and everything is going to shit.

I also don’t think it’s accurate to say that you can “easily” break the knee, kick a groin or strike the eyes and/or throat (both excellent targets though) of a mobile opponent intent on doing you harm. In fact to say that anything is “easily” accomplished in a real violent encounter is not really accurate, in my training/experience, which is dominantly street/reality oriented.

As far as kicks go maybe, MAYBE, a low round/Thai kick if it was offered on a silver platter but even then I’m not crazy about the idea…

68

“I also don’t think it’s accurate to say that you can “easily” break the knee, kick a groin or strike the eyes and/or throat (both excellent targets though) of a mobile opponent intent on doing you harm. In fact to say that anything is “easily” accomplished in a real violent encounter is not really accurate, in my training/experience, which is dominantly street/reality oriented”.

Quoted for truth.

Street or combat encounters, from my experience, usuallly contain the following elements: religious extremists hellbent on killing you with God in their back pocket, violently high on PCP,Coke, or Meth,fueled to insane rage on domestic issues (divorce, losing kids, partner screwing around)or racial hatred. There is nothing easy about surviving any violent encounter regardless of your training. I would suggest to anyone exploring this issue to go back and read the “2 vs 1 road rage” thread at the top of the forum. a lot of good practical information provided.

As a side note: I am unable to send PM’s, has anyone heard anything from Robert A? I havent seen him on here since before Sandy, anyone know if he is ok? Thanks.

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I have been in a few fights and altercations at bars but probably no more then the average person; I am not claiming to have been in 100s of street fights or anything in that manner… So apparently I should have written that better and with more quality… I did not mean to apply that they are easy targets to hit just that they are better options and should be trained to go for those vulnerable points…

One big difference in real altercations is the adrenaline and how to control it so that you can still manauever just the same… Or how to act after getting your tooth knocked out or hit in the face without freaking out and clinching up, pulling over because you get the wind knocked out of you etc… of course hitting these places and practicing good kicking striking takes ALOT of practice and repetition to pull off in a real situation but if you train and practice those thousands of reps daily and work it in the most realism based way as possible and get the adrenaline fear response going you can get pretty good simulation…

I learned to control adrenaline mainly actually funny enough from when I had an anxiety and panic disorder and leaned to end the attacks taught me more control then I will ever need for it, actually paradoxically you end the adrenaline by allowing yourself to feel it fully and move with it which seems to be the exact opposite of which most do which is usually tense up freeze or flee.

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[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
I have been in a few fights and altercations at bars but probably no more then the average person; I am not claiming to have been in 100s of street fights or anything in that manner… [/quote]

So, in these actual altercations what did you do? Genuinely curious. Were you able to effectively employ any of the more difficult or advanced techniques you are describing? If you were able to pull it off, how many of your students do you think could replicate that when it counts? I’m not being confrontational, I’ve just never had a plan survive first contact with reality and I’ve seen it damn few times as well. The more sexy and complex the plan is the lower it’s chance of remaining even remotely intact, in my experience.

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Well generally nothing really too complex I haven’t done anything that vicious to anyone yet because I have never had the need; also there is the legal aspect if you hurt someone that bad you better have a damn good alibi and hopefully no witnesses… So I never tried to break someone’s knees in real life or anything crazy like that… If I get into a more serious altercation and I use it I will be sure to let you know how it goes…

The thing is though I train until you simply strike without thinking you don’t go in there thinking I am going to do this then this then this technique… It’s really just instinctive and based on raw muscle memory through highly, highly, repetitious training… When I throw the strikes for real they come out just the same as when I practice it just kind of sinks into place… Again that’s on the individual they HAVE to train putting those hours and reps in and it takes a lot of practice and discipline… Also there has to be a higher degree of athleticism… Anyone can learn but they have to put the time in and effort.

I never go in with a plan I just train and train and train some more… Then when you go at it for real everything just falls into place instinctively… You see the opening and you strike and don’t stop until their down… Usually obviously better to hit first but in the eyes of law doesn’t look good… The idea is to see them about to throw the punch and hit them before they even fire it off like you see the shoulder lean and forward momentum lean… Then a quick straight lead to the face and then groin kick and then distance… Again it just takes practice and developing your tools

… Obviously someone untrained is not going to be able to pull it off as well and don’t know the aspects to not leave themselves vulnerable for a counter etc… Honestly most the people I train don’t commit to it too much definitely not enough to be able to pull it off for real… If I find more dedicated people I will let you know… Have plenty of friends and students of tommy that know their shit though

72

‘Everyone’s got a plan, until they get punched in the face’.

All your drills trained to repetition would be undone in an instant by a guy who knows how to street fight. You simply wouldn’t get enough time and space to execute fancy techniques, which is a good thing, because if you tried you’d find you couldn’t execute them in a bar anyway, cos a stool or table leg would catch your foot, or knee, or some drunk chick would stagger back into you and step on your standing foot in her stiletto (I have seen all of this stuff happen more than once to idiots who tried).

For most of us, the area we’re most likely to get in a fight is in a bar, pub or club. I don’t know about you, but if I go to one of these places, I go out for a good time and to enjoy the company of my friends. I don’t go out to spend the entire evening on edge just waiting for someone to be dumb enough to give me a dirty look so I can use my sweet moves on them.

If you end up in a brawl in one of these places, where the bodies are packed and space is tight, your kicks, and possibly even your straight punches, are not going to be much use to you. So by all means, train any fancy technique you like, but the chances are that you’ll get sparked out by the guy who only knows how to set up, disguise and throw an effective short right hook.

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It’s not fancy and flashy of techniques at all it’s the same as throwing a jab just a bit different in leverage, and delivery… yeah I know exactly what you are talking about its not a set repetition or drills against a specific thing… It’s all broken rythym anyways… Which is why I said not having a plan in mind, it’s just simple reactions… You react to what you see and go from there… Anyways I know exactly what you are talking about I work security and seen plenty of fights break out myself… Just like you said…

One time a young twenty something dude fighting a middle aged person drunk in a movie theater… The old guy gets dropped to the ground turns into a wrestling match and the girlfriend of the younger person starts kicking the old dude with her stilletos in the legs, stomach, and almost the face… Then went in and separated them… Of course also I never walk around on edge waiting to fight someone or anything like that, only a tool goes around trying to wait for a chance to pull of some of his “sweet techniques” acting like hes Jason bourne or some shit… Haha kind of like that other thread with the dork in the subway and his katana…

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It’s not fancy and flashy of techniques at all it’s the same as throwing a jab just a bit different in leverage, and delivery… yeah I know exactly what you are talking about its not a set repetition or drills against a specific thing… It’s all broken rythym anyways… Which is why I said not having a plan in mind, it’s just simple reactions… You react to what you see and go from there… Anyways I know exactly what you are talking about I work security and seen plenty of fights break out myself… Just like you said…

One time a young twenty something dude fighting a middle aged person drunk in a movie theater… The old guy gets dropped to the ground turns into a wrestling match and the girlfriend of the younger person starts kicking the old dude with her stilletos in the legs, stomach, and almost the face… Then went in and separated them… Of course also I never walk around on edge waiting to fight someone or anything like that, only a tool goes around trying to wait for a chance to pull of some of his “sweet techniques” acting like hes Jason bourne or some shit… Haha kind of like that other thread with the dork in the subway and his katana…

75

I wasn’t breaking your balls about the “how many fights have you been in” question. Honestly, I don’t even disagree with what you’re saying. I think I maybe I just have forum fatigue on the whole issue and the martial arts in general… this whole idea of people training in “systems” where the instructors argue over who is right and who owns it and whether this technique is right or wrong or was added after the guy died… ugh. It’s just all so ridiculous considering the original intent of all of this was to defend yourself from dying.

It’s especially ridiculous because there’s only so many ways to punch, kick, and block. So they’re all arguing over… what? How they’re strung together?

It’s part of the reason that I like boxing as much as I do (besides the part where you don’t bow to foreign flags) - there’s six punches, and even though you can alter them a little bit here and there, NOBODY claims to OWN those six punches and then tells everyone else they’re doing it wrong.

And nobody pretends that the six punches you learn in sport fighting are any different than the punches you learn in a “reality based self defense” course or in Krav Maga or whatever either. They’re just punches. They land or they don’t. You knock the guy down, or you don’t. You live or you don’t.

Sorry for the rambling. Just tired of these goofy people in these goofy arts.

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[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
I will try and re post those videos I don’t know why it should work though did the people that looked click on the links? Anyways Yeah anyone can tell you kicking in a fight is a bad idea but the reason is simple enough and this is where being smart and practical comes in… Kicks can work in the street perfectly fine and well but for the majority of the time they have to stay LOW… You can technically kick someone in the head but it is a dumb move that leaves you vulnerable and unless you have perfect speed, timing, distance, and awareness there is no real point plus there is a million better things to do, it is very unpractical because of the amount of time and follow through that it requires… why kick in the head when a quick lead straight to the jaw can suffice… Though you can easily break someones knee or kick the groin with your foot with plenty of speed and without leaving yourself open… Again it takes alot of dedication and repitition and application. Street fighting is an art in in itself as I have said… Completely different then sport martial arts… For example you catch me on the street I might do some dirty fighting tricks that people never learn elsewhere such as stepping on your foot to immobilize you and once I catch you offguard you better believe I am not stopping until your down for the count… Boxing is an awesome and great art to use but the stance most people use in the street leaves their groin wide open and you need kicking for distance its alot longer of a weapon then your fist… If you do not know how to kick properly thats on you but it does not mean its useless, though again as I said its retarded to try and kick someone in the head, you should be aiming for ankles, knees, groin, or if you can hit their head down low or lean them forward you can easily hit someone hard in the solorplexus etc… … also most people dont realize things such as people striking the eyes and throat they just always seem to think its going to turn into a slug match or brawl which 99% of the time it does but you get someone that trains for the street seriously and you may just have your eyes opened a bit more.
[/quote]

Sounds like you are preparing to fight some idiots. Dude, if you really wanted to put someone out of their misery, are you going to leave them any avenues of escape? There is people getting pissed off enough to take a swipe at you (which you might be the cause of and deserve, though that line of argument never seems to make it into “self-defense” classes) and there is someone who thinks you should be punished or dead. First case is all you’ve talked about, sort of. Now, nice middle class people are in this category and are probably inept enough that you pull a lot of that off. You can square off with them because they are unfamiliar enough with the situation to stand there and watch.

People from other socio-economic classes generally will just shoot you if they want you dead. If they are beating you at all it is because they think you aren’t really a credible threat. in those strata of society, you beat women and children if they act up, so there is something very specific about getting punched out by one of these guys. Understand this if they are going barehanded it is because they are sure they will win and they probably have done it enough to know they’re right. Barehanded in the first place means they don’t think enough of you to treat you with any respect – they just aren’t afraid you’re going to do anything back. Think about that. Getting a beating like that is extremely humiliating which is the point. They probably are also armed a couple of ways in case you don’t take your beating like a man, in which case they are more than (in their opinion) justified in gutting you.

My point? Just don’t assume most people who discuss violence or do martial arts/sports have seen jack shit. I’ve seen folks who could easily walk all over me in a ring I’m sure would never see a committed attack coming or know what to do if they were getting a serious beating. Thinking that way is just off the radar. They are a lot like Nicole du Fresne that way.

Oh and as a friend (his job was to beat up pimps from competing whorehouses and sometimes firebomb them for fun) of mine quipped “head kicks work great after you break their legs.” He liked baseball bats in the dark at close quarters. And no, you wouldn’t see it coming at all. He’d use the bat to break your legs then administer a barehanded beating/stomping. And yes, he’s done it more than a few times.

– jj

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I’ve seen tons of kicks used effectively in fights, the funniest part is none of them were from martial artist. All the martial artist who tried to use it failed miserably, Idk what level they were whether 1 day or black belt but I know it didn’t work. The people I did see use it were heavy soccer players, one or two were D1 soccer level. They did it instinctively, and I’m not sure they were aiming for deadly leg or rib breaking just kicking the shit out of the person.

One guy threw about 10 kicks up and down the side of a guys body before I knew they were even fighting. Some of the others I’m not sure where they kicked just knew the other guy was hurt. Whatever you do I hope it’s instinctive because by time you think about it the fight might be over.

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[quote]idaho wrote:
“But I really like your point about the tactical firearms training. I consider military servicemen and women to be ‘martial artists’ in a sense… I totally agree about military personnel being martial artists; in fact many of the martial arts that we know of today were originally utilized by soldiers on the battlefield (Jujutsu, Kenjutsu, TKD, Krav Maga, even Muay Boran which later became Muay Thai was utilized on the fields of battle”)."

Good and accurate comments: Just for a follow up on your thoughts, thought you would be interested in this weeks’ training:

All training conducted in body armor, elbow and knee tactical pads, including a outdoor session in striking

tactical room clearing with small arms, which included handguns, shotguns, and SMG’s

Battlefeild takedowns, followed up with a firearm or knife assault

obstacle course in body armor( no helmet), including a handgun drill at completion

Muay Thai basics in battle rattle, elbows, knees and very low kicks, dont use hand strikes if they can be avoided, due to possible broken fingers, cannot manipulate triggers…etc

basic JJ in body armor

2 on 1 or 3 on 1 sparring drills in protective gear, plus body armor, no head strikes due to injury control, but , 50 % to body, takedowns allowed, purpose of the drill is demostrate how YOU, REGARDLESS OF YOUR SKILL, has to work in a team and that YOU, MY WARRIOR, ARE NOT SUPERMAN.

simple takedowns and very basic knife defense in body armor

we stress full gear as much as possible because thats what your will be wearing during operations

hellfire missles are in another league:))

       [/quote]

Idaho came out with another great post here that I overlooked. I think it funny that everyone who uses the phrase “martial arts” is really using the wrong words for what they do.

The basic etymology of martial arts is…well, it’s “the arts of Mars.” The Roman god of war. But at this point in time, the arts have about as much to do with real, true war as dancing does.

While fat suburbanites are bouncing around in dojos practicing moves that were designed to be used with swords (even though the instructor doesn’t know that), today’s martial artists are those guys doing the shit Idaho is talking about. It’s part of the reason that I like guys like Kelly McCann as much as I do - you take your movie actor martial arts, your jiujitsu, your whatever into a war zone today, and you’re a corpse in minutes.

Ugh. Again, maybe I’m just getting disgusted by the whole scene, and the fact that people truly don’t understand what they’re doing or why they’re doing it.

Idaho, I wish I could train like you do pal. Truly.

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I wasn’t breaking your balls about the “how many fights have you been in” question. Honestly, I don’t even disagree with what you’re saying. I think I maybe I just have forum fatigue on the whole issue and the martial arts in general… this whole idea of people training in “systems” where the instructors argue over who is right and who owns it and whether this technique is right or wrong or was added after the guy died… ugh. It’s just all so ridiculous considering the original intent of all of this was to defend yourself from dying.

It’s especially ridiculous because there’s only so many ways to punch, kick, and block. So they’re all arguing over… what? How they’re strung together?

It’s part of the reason that I like boxing as much as I do (besides the part where you don’t bow to foreign flags) - there’s six punches, and even though you can alter them a little bit here and there, NOBODY claims to OWN those six punches and then tells everyone else they’re doing it wrong.

And nobody pretends that the six punches you learn in sport fighting are any different than the punches you learn in a “reality based self defense” course or in Krav Maga or whatever either. They’re just punches. They land or they don’t. You knock the guy down, or you don’t. You live or you don’t.

Sorry for the rambling. Just tired of these goofy people in these goofy arts.[/quote]

I hear you man, the emphasis should be on effectiveness, not tradition or place of origin.

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[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I wasn’t breaking your balls about the “how many fights have you been in” question. Honestly, I don’t even disagree with what you’re saying. I think I maybe I just have forum fatigue on the whole issue and the martial arts in general… this whole idea of people training in “systems” where the instructors argue over who is right and who owns it and whether this technique is right or wrong or was added after the guy died… ugh. It’s just all so ridiculous considering the original intent of all of this was to defend yourself from dying.

It’s especially ridiculous because there’s only so many ways to punch, kick, and block. So they’re all arguing over… what? How they’re strung together?

It’s part of the reason that I like boxing as much as I do (besides the part where you don’t bow to foreign flags) - there’s six punches, and even though you can alter them a little bit here and there, NOBODY claims to OWN those six punches and then tells everyone else they’re doing it wrong.

And nobody pretends that the six punches you learn in sport fighting are any different than the punches you learn in a “reality based self defense” course or in Krav Maga or whatever either. They’re just punches. They land or they don’t. You knock the guy down, or you don’t. You live or you don’t.

Sorry for the rambling. Just tired of these goofy people in these goofy arts.[/quote]

I hear you man, the emphasis should be on effectiveness, not tradition or place of origin.

[/quote]

I really don’t understand any more why people with solid backgrounds in the arts aren’t constantly creating their own arts.

This is the reason that I really do actually like MMA and the training it involves - everyone is creating their own mini-system that’s based on what they find useful, what their background is in, etc. If you get guys like Bas Rutten incorporating more street-useful techniques, you really get some badass ways of fighting.

I’m hoping it kills the idea of “Well, I do Goju-ryu/kyokushin/krav maga/whatever and my way is the right way and the only way.” It won’t, but I hope it does.