Is HCG a Must on a Test Only Cycle?

Pharma
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For TRT if you look at the MIMS guide the dose is absurd…

“Hypogonadotrophin hypogonadism 500-1,000 IU IM thrice a wk for 3 wk followed by same dose twice a wk for 3 wk or, 4,000 u IM thrice a wk for 6-9 mth followed by 2,000 u thrice a wk for an additional 3 mth.”

Taken from mims

Also have an old textbook covering just about every medication that was available a few decades ago. Dosages/protocols to treat conditions. Many doctors in my family and due to my interest I was given the books to read. Sometimes I still read the books on anatomy/pharmacology and biochemistry in my spare time.

I can send you some screenshots at some point if you like. One book is so old they actually have masteron (drostanolone propionate) as a drug indicated to treat ER positive breast cancer in postmenopausal women! I believe the drug is still FDA approved to this day for this use, but isn’t manufactured anymore

One book also indicates methyltestosterone and/or fluoxymesterone for the prolonged treatment of male hypogonadism

Prolonged use of c-17 alpha alkylated androgens leads to hepatotoxicity and occasionally hepatic tumours/hepatocellular carcinoma, peliosis hepatis, intrahepatic cholastasis etc… Also skews lipid profiles really badly, like a 50% reduction + in HDL and 30-50%+ increase in LDL. Imagine being on that for 20-30 years “doctor! I’ve had four heart attacks and I’m only 46… Why?”

Both are still manufactured and FDA approved for treatment of hypogonadism in the USA but have largely been phased out elsewhere.

I’ve thought about using HCG adjunct with TRT, but due to reasons I won’t specify on here I’m very plausibly not fertile to begin with, aside from the aesthetic difference regarding testicular size there may be no point. In which case why waste money.

Was quite a knock to find out about the prospect of infertility at seventeen but whatever… To note I’m in my 20s now.

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I don’t consider it absurd if it Is what’s needed. As said, I used 3000 IU per week for my kids.

There was no reversal of testicular atrophy for me.

24

Not absurd if that’s a requirement, just referring to long term treatment/the cost of it. Like the guys with partial androgen insensitivity syndrome who require 500mg test/wk for mere replacement.

Or the people with HIV/AIDS that required 100mg oxymetholone/day for weight maintenance… That’s a big dose… Or aplastic anaemia… 1-5mg/kg/day!

HCG is… Was like 30$ for 5000iu here if I recall correctly. I’m not sure if it’s available outside of compounding pharmacies here anymore.

So if you had to go through like 3 vials per week the cost is far higher than trt alone (generally. Androgel is very expensive here).

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25

I used 3000 IU per week with TRT. It was covered by insurance.

HCG costs tripled this past year in the US.

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Clomid can be used also, which is dirt cheap.

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Of course it did… Really grinds my gears when pharmaceutical companies purposefully ramp up prices because they know no alternative is available

Injectable testosterone had a shortage in Aus last year. Compounding pharmacies took note, for those who switched over to compounding it was like 90$ for 750mg of test E

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Also HCG is an LH mimic, you’re still providing a negative feedback loop to HPTA during use. Clomid stimulates LH/FSH release, both are different. If you were to switch to Clomid now you’d go through a period wherein you’d have the testosterone levels of a castrated man. I don’t believe Clomid can be used while on T to maintain fertility… But I could be wrong.

Interestingly Clomid consists of two isomers. Enclomipheme and Zuclomiphene. Zuclomiphene actually may be suppressive in itself, enclomipheme largely mediates the LH/FSH stimuli

Enclomiphene is now being trialled as a means to treat certain types of secondary hypogonadism. Though I can’t foresee SERMS being used forever and once you take away the variable treating the hypogonadism… Provided the initial problem is still present you’ll have low T again.

Nolvadex (tamofixen) can also be used, nolvadex in itself acts as a prodrug, metabolite of tamox have a far higher binding affinity to the ER than nolvadex itself. Just a fun fact that I think is cool/noteworthy

How did you know you had hypogonadism when you were younger? How did a doctor find out? Was it a test you requested? @brickhead

Wondering because it’s an often overlooked and sadly under treated problem today… Even moreso twenty years ago

I knew something was wrong due to lack of energy, lack of and/or regression of physical development relative to other young adults my age at the time. Loss of muscle mass, was always called out for looking like I was years younger than I actually was. The issues actually started to pop up at around fifteen, but got worse over time… didn’t get it sorted out until I was eighteen. Sometimes I wonder if I would have been taller had I gotten it sorted out sooner as the anabolic portion of testosterone/AAS stimulate linear bone growth.

If you compare me now vs back then I look far healthier, I can grow facial hair. Also grew body hair literally everywhere… And tons of it. Now looking at laser treatment for hair on my shoulders/neck and maybe stomach as I’ve been picked on for it which is odd as back in the day this was fashionable.

Starting to lose my hair, which is understandable. Father went bald in his late 20s/early 30s so I’m assuming I’ll be on that same path and I’ll be bald by then. Using Minoxidil as a means of temporary prevention.

His free testosterone levels (late 50s) are triple what mine were at 18… How is that fair?

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I still pay $70 for 10 ml, I was able to get 2 vials last month for $130 total. I have to mix it myself.

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Perhaps they have gone down. Over half a year ago the mail order pharmacy I used had a tripled price. I MIGHT have a third kid, so perhaps it won’t be that expensive, though I Likely will put up with a hefty expense for a child. Otherwise I will use clomid.

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Clomid is used by itself. It doesn’t take long for it to work. A friend of mine has usual T values of 800 to 1000 with it alone, which he used for his first kid and for secondary hypogonadism.

When I briefly used Clomid it took my level from 240 to 790.

32

I had symptoms with no known cause (no roid use, no accidents). I went to the doctor and he tested my FSH, LH, and T and prescribed an MRI of my head. It was idiopathic hypogonadism.

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33

did you have a pituitary tumour?

Why did you stop using clomid?

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I didn’t like how I felt on it, but I don’t think I gave my symptoms time to dissipate because after switching to Androgel it took six months to feel like myself again.

There was no tumor. Idiopathic means no known cause.

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