Iraq Invasion 10 Years Ago

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Oh God here we go, cry me a river over defense spending. [/quote]

Although I don’t share the extreme views of some here, it is important to consider the long term consequences…and there are many.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/iraq-war-anniversary-idUSL1N0C5FBN20130314

[/quote]

For me the spending is a huge issue, but I didn’t get to sit in those budget meetings. The thing is, imo, the removal of Saddam gives a chance to those that never ever would have had one. To me that is priceless. Will it amount to anything, maybe, maybe not. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have tried.

Everyone has their thoughts, mine are, we give billions away to fat slobs with a dozen kids, but we can’t spend money helping the oppresed? I don’t agree with that that is all. [/quote]

Why are you not jumping up and down supporting us invading Egypt, Syria, Iran, Russia, China, most of Africa, etc? Is there something special about people in Iraq or is oppression oppression? I can only assume you think our work has just started and we need to get busy with the rest of the world correct? I mean we should at least try right?

That’s just being consistent. [/quote]

Did nanyone say anything about Egypt, Syria, Ira, Russia, China, Africa, etc… How do you know my thought on the matter?

Ya actually, if some dick head is spraying “his” people with mustad gas, I’d say we should step in. Oh, but it’s expensive, says the RICHEST nation in the world that consumes THE MOST resources.

It’s cool though we can sit behind a computer enjoying our freedom, I mean fuck those kids in Africa being forced into slavery or prositution, the DOW is down…[/quote]

So wait a second. You have a problem with wasteful govt spending on people right here in this country in the form of entitlement programs that essentially use taxpayer money to better the lives of Americans who are struggling…and yet it’s okay to bomb people into democracy halfway around the world with taxpayer money?

We’re the richest nation in the world so we should be spreading freedom and saving lives all around the world, but the second someone says we should use those resources to help support the poor and infirm in our own country people like you fly off the handle about entitlement programs that go toward paying for people who don’t put into the system and that sort of thing. What the FUCK has one single Iraqi put into the American system that justifies spending trillions of dollars on them?

If we’re going to blow trillions of dollars of taxpayer money, I’d prefer we do it here in the form of entitlement programs that ostensibly aim to help the less fortunate Americans amongst us before we start doing the exact same thing in Iraq. [/quote]

No DB, I have a problem with wasting tax payer dollars right here in America on people that DON’T NEED it. Just like i have a problem with wasting money on foreigners that DON’t NEED it.

I am not for “bombing people into democracy”. I am for doing what we can to allow others the OPPORTUNITY to be free.

You can make assumptions about me all you want, that doesn’t make them true. I haven’t been against entitlement programs for those that NEED them. I; howver, don’t beleive everyone receiving enitltment benefits in this country NEEDS them.

Do you see where my distinction is?

My justification is I want to help those that can’t help themselve, you many not agree, which is fine. That’s my reason though. [/quote]

I work with people all the time who are on all sorts of forms of govt assistance. They all need it. I see your distinction, but I don’t know what constitutes “need”. All I know is that whatever those Iraqis needed over there, we spent trillions of dollars and didn’t give it to them. It’s just a different boot stepping on them now.[/quote]

That’s a valid point and certainly debatable. Need is a subjective term to be sure. I persoanlly think we tend to over inflate what wee really “need” here. Again though, that is debatable.

What’s funny is, I have yet to give my opinion of the war itself, that’s just not how this thread evolved. People have just jumped to their own conclusions, which whatver.

82

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Oh God here we go, cry me a river over defense spending. [/quote]

Although I don’t share the extreme views of some here, it is important to consider the long term consequences…and there are many.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/iraq-war-anniversary-idUSL1N0C5FBN20130314

[/quote]

For me the spending is a huge issue, but I didn’t get to sit in those budget meetings. The thing is, imo, the removal of Saddam gives a chance to those that never ever would have had one. To me that is priceless. Will it amount to anything, maybe, maybe not. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have tried.

Everyone has their thoughts, mine are, we give billions away to fat slobs with a dozen kids, but we can’t spend money helping the oppresed? I don’t agree with that that is all. [/quote]

Why are you not jumping up and down supporting us invading Egypt, Syria, Iran, Russia, China, most of Africa, etc? Is there something special about people in Iraq or is oppression oppression? I can only assume you think our work has just started and we need to get busy with the rest of the world correct? I mean we should at least try right?

That’s just being consistent. [/quote]

Did nanyone say anything about Egypt, Syria, Ira, Russia, China, Africa, etc… How do you know my thought on the matter?

Ya actually, if some dick head is spraying “his” people with mustad gas, I’d say we should step in. Oh, but it’s expensive, says the RICHEST nation in the world that consumes THE MOST resources.

It’s cool though we can sit behind a computer enjoying our freedom, I mean fuck those kids in Africa being forced into slavery or prositution, the DOW is down…[/quote]

So wait a second. You have a problem with wasteful govt spending on people right here in this country in the form of entitlement programs that essentially use taxpayer money to better the lives of Americans who are struggling…and yet it’s okay to bomb people into democracy halfway around the world with taxpayer money?

We’re the richest nation in the world so we should be spreading freedom and saving lives all around the world, but the second someone says we should use those resources to help support the poor and infirm in our own country people like you fly off the handle about entitlement programs that go toward paying for people who don’t put into the system and that sort of thing. What the FUCK has one single Iraqi put into the American system that justifies spending trillions of dollars on them?

If we’re going to blow trillions of dollars of taxpayer money, I’d prefer we do it here in the form of entitlement programs that ostensibly aim to help the less fortunate Americans amongst us before we start doing the exact same thing in Iraq. [/quote]

No DB, I have a problem with wasting tax payer dollars right here in America on people that DON’T NEED it. Just like i have a problem with wasting money on foreigners that DON’t NEED it.

I am not for “bombing people into democracy”. I am for doing what we can to allow others the OPPORTUNITY to be free.

You can make assumptions about me all you want, that doesn’t make them true. I haven’t been against entitlement programs for those that NEED them. I; howver, don’t beleive everyone receiving enitltment benefits in this country NEEDS them.

Do you see where my distinction is?

My justification is I want to help those that can’t help themselve, you many not agree, which is fine. That’s my reason though. [/quote]

I just have some consistency issues with the way you’ve presented your viewpoints in this thread.

  1. If oppression is bad (I won’t fight you on this) then why the fuck are you not sounding the horn like mad to invade a whole bunch of other countries? Again, what makes Iraq so important? Don’t people in other areas of the world deserve the chance to be free? Sounds like we got a whole lot of bombing (I mean opportunity giving) to do.

  2. How do you know who needs and doesn’t need entitlement programs? You have a list of people that actually need them vs. a list that doesn’t? Who determines that exactly? You want to argue there is fraud in entitlement programs I won’t fight you. Why aren’t you pissed off about the massive fraud in defense spending? Or you think the government is magically efficient in that regard and not others?

But you mentioned the fat slob with a dozen kids (sounds like someone you must know), so what happens to those kids? Take them away from mom? Then do what with them? If you’re one of those people who think legitimate welfare queens are out there by the millions driving around lambo’s while recieving the nice government check I think you’re going to be sadly mistaken should you ever pause to let reality set in and not the steady diet of Republican worship lines fuck the government stuff we’ve been fed.

You might also keep in mind that is the side that is laughably arguing against abortion and against contraceptives but has no problem telling a bunch of people to go fuck themselves they are on their own when it comes to education and healthcare. Yes, the side who WANTS more unwanted kids, but is wholeheartedly prepared to let them live a miserable life once on the planet.

[/quote]

  1. Would you like me to start a thread about all the countries we should invade? Am I required to quantify every answer with every single other time I would apply the answer? I also never ever said invade. I’ve said help as best we can, which doesn’t always necessitate an invasion. You are the one that keeps saying bombing = freedom giving, not me. I never said military action is a must.

  2. I never said I know that, that’s why we need to reform entitlement programs. What I do know is that there are people in this world that “need” clean water and there are people in America that live off food stamps because they can’t find employment (read lazy).

I have said fraud exist in defense spending. I have said defense spending can and should be cut.

  1. The fat slob should get a job and yes if said fat slob can’t afford her kids they should be taken from her. What did you expect me to say, oh that’s such a shame she’s trying her best. If she is then great, good for her, but if she isn’t fuck her.

  2. Incentivize adopting U.S. children to help with above.

  3. You, like many on pwi, have to go to extremes. No I don’t think there are millions of single moms driving Porche’s on our dime, that’s absurd. That doesn’t mean people don’t take advantage of programs because they are lazy.

  4. Has nothing to do with party lines, you keep bringing parties up not me.

  5. Your last paragraph has nothing at all to do with what we are talking about. The side that wants more kids, lol. More like the side that wants more people to deal with the ramifications of their choices.

83

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

  1. Would you like me to start a thread about all the countries we should invade? Am I required to quantify every answer with every single other time I would apply the answer? I also never ever said invade. I’ve said help as best we can, which doesn’t always necessitate an invasion. You are the one that keeps saying bombing = freedom giving, not me. I never said military action is a must.

  2. I never said I know that, that’s why we need to reform entitlement programs. What I do know is that there are people in this world that “need” clean water and there are people in America that live off food stamps because they can’t find employment (read lazy).

I have said fraud exist in defense spending. I have said defense spending can and should be cut.

  1. The fat slob should get a job and yes if said fat slob can’t afford her kids they should be taken from her. What did you expect me to say, oh that’s such a shame she’s trying her best. If she is then great, good for her, but if she isn’t fuck her.

  2. Incentivize adopting U.S. children to help with above.

  3. You, like many on pwi, have to go to extremes. No I don’t think there are millions of single moms driving Porche’s on our dime, that’s absurd. That doesn’t mean people don’t take advantage of programs because they are lazy.

  4. Has nothing to do with party lines, you keep bringing parties up not me.

  5. Your last paragraph has nothing at all to do with what we are talking about. The side that wants more kids, lol. More like the side that wants more people to deal with the ramifications of their choices. [/quote]

  6. I’m merely trying to follow your line of thinking. If oppression is a good reason for getting into Iraq then clearly it is a good reason for getting into other oppressed countries is it not? If no then why not? Are Iraqi’s more deserving of freedom than other people? Why? Or do you think perhaps reasons existed that leaders would be more likely to “sell” freedom to the American people than other areas of the world? And when you bring bombs to other countries and bomb them I think it’s ok to call it bombing. I know “nation building” sounds way better though hence why people use that. Dead civilians vs. nation building I’m always going to say nation building. It just sounds so much more peaceful.

  7. It sounds like you think the U.S. needs to drastically increase foreign aid. I’m not saying that’s a bad stance, but it really sounds like what you’re saying.

  8. I only bring up party lines because one side has desperately tried to sell the American people on the idea of welfare queens for a long time. One side has desperately tried to sell the American people on the idea that every time a food stamp is used it’s by someone who doesn’t need it.

  9. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that banning contraceptives and abortions would lead to more unwanted kids. See Romania, and see logic and reason for examples. I just think it’s ironic one side wants to have actions that lead to more unwanted kids is the same side usually saying fuck unwanted kids we’re tired of spending on education and health care (remember it isn’t the government’s job to provide health care right?) It IS the government’s job to force reproductive decisions though apparently. But yes, it didn’t have much to do with what we’re talking about, I was more ranting about the pro-birth party (pro-birth cause they want kids to be born, but once they are here don’t want to pay for them). Pro-life sounds way too nice knowing that.

84

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

So who were we murdering/stealing from when the national guard was sent into post Katrina New Orleans? [/quote]

The fact that they wear military costumes to “help” people should be an obvious fact they are a threat and only there for a display of force. They weren’t there to help people by carrying tactical weapons around flood victims.

They stole weapons from people. They forced people to leave their homes. They went door-to-door to do it.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/01/4114-hurricane-katrina-door-to-door-firearms-confiscation/

http://godfatherpolitics.com/9239/gun-confiscation-during-hurricane-katrina-gives-us-picture-of-road-ahead/

Guess what happened to people who did not want to comply.

Just an other day for costumed thugs as usual.

85

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

  1. Would you like me to start a thread about all the countries we should invade? Am I required to quantify every answer with every single other time I would apply the answer? I also never ever said invade. I’ve said help as best we can, which doesn’t always necessitate an invasion. You are the one that keeps saying bombing = freedom giving, not me. I never said military action is a must.

  2. I never said I know that, that’s why we need to reform entitlement programs. What I do know is that there are people in this world that “need” clean water and there are people in America that live off food stamps because they can’t find employment (read lazy).

I have said fraud exist in defense spending. I have said defense spending can and should be cut.

  1. The fat slob should get a job and yes if said fat slob can’t afford her kids they should be taken from her. What did you expect me to say, oh that’s such a shame she’s trying her best. If she is then great, good for her, but if she isn’t fuck her.

  2. Incentivize adopting U.S. children to help with above.

  3. You, like many on pwi, have to go to extremes. No I don’t think there are millions of single moms driving Porche’s on our dime, that’s absurd. That doesn’t mean people don’t take advantage of programs because they are lazy.

  4. Has nothing to do with party lines, you keep bringing parties up not me.

  5. Your last paragraph has nothing at all to do with what we are talking about. The side that wants more kids, lol. More like the side that wants more people to deal with the ramifications of their choices. [/quote]

  6. I’m merely trying to follow your line of thinking. If oppression is a good reason for getting into Iraq then clearly it is a good reason for getting into other oppressed countries is it not? If no then why not? Are Iraqi’s more deserving of freedom than other people? Why? Or do you think perhaps reasons existed that leaders would be more likely to “sell” freedom to the American people than other areas of the world? And when you bring bombs to other countries and bomb them I think it’s ok to call it bombing. I know “nation building” sounds way better though hence why people use that. Dead civilians vs. nation building I’m always going to say nation building. It just sounds so much more peaceful.

  7. It sounds like you think the U.S. needs to drastically increase foreign aid. I’m not saying that’s a bad stance, but it really sounds like what you’re saying.

  8. I only bring up party lines because one side has desperately tried to sell the American people on the idea of welfare queens for a long time. One side has desperately tried to sell the American people on the idea that every time a food stamp is used it’s by someone who doesn’t need it.

  9. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that banning contraceptives and abortions would lead to more unwanted kids. See Romania, and see logic and reason for examples. I just think it’s ironic one side wants to have actions that lead to more unwanted kids is the same side usually saying fuck unwanted kids we’re tired of spending on education and health care (remember it isn’t the government’s job to provide health care right?) It IS the government’s job to force reproductive decisions though apparently. But yes, it didn’t have much to do with what we’re talking about, I was more ranting about the pro-birth party (pro-birth cause they want kids to be born, but once they are here don’t want to pay for them). Pro-life sounds way too nice knowing that. [/quote]

  10. We should do what we can to help ALL those oppressed. This whole time my statements have been based off what imo we SHOULD do not what we HAVE to do. Military action is only one possible course of action, the one used in Iraq. It may not be the best course of action in other situations. Iraq doesn’t = Syria, which doesn’t = Somalia, which doesn’t equal Iran. If you want to discuss another situation, start a thread about it.

Once again, as I mentioned I have yet to give my thoughts on the war in Iraq. Look back through the thread if you must. ThHe point is, people just assummed I was all for it based on what, I don’t know.

We bombed Iraq because we were at war. You keep equating this to freedom, as if all we can do to give people an opportunity to be free is bomb, which I don’t agree with.

Everyone is equally deserving of freedom, which is why I think we should help where we can. I don’t think we deserve it any more than the people of Iran or Iraq.

Again, it’s always an extreme. It’s either nation building or dead civilians. Have civilians died, yes, is that okay, no. It’s an unfortunate side of war, which is ugly.

  1. I would have to look into the $ given, who is receiving them, what they are being used for, etc… before saying whether I am for or against increasing foreign aid. I am not for just throwing money at problems.

  2. I think those of us with a little common sense can see through the over exaggerate crap guys like Hanity spew and reality. As frustrating as it is for you it is equally frustrating for a person like me that just wants to help, but is seen as a conservative and thus must hate the poor or _______(insert some group). It’s garbage and it pisses me off.

  3. It’s not a stretch at all, except I seriously doubt most people even republicans/conservatives want to ban contraception. Now abortion is a completely different story and I am 100% against abortion, in certain circumstance. I’d suggest you start another abortion thread for the 100th time if you’d like to go down that rabbit hole.

What I think you are failing to see is, for me *no one else just me), I don’t want to see more unwanted children. I also don’t want the remains of a “fetus” sucked out into a vacuum clear because that “fetus” is an inconvenience. I believe strongly in dealing with the consequences of your actions. There are exceptions, like rape, but in this case pregnancy from rape, I have to imagine is a small #. It’s not a black and white issue, and that’s all I will say on that.

Healthcare and education are different topics. You see abortion as forcing reproductive choice I see it as stopping murder, which is a huge difference. I also think being pro-birth as you put it doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. Again, it’s about consequences of actions. Now that’s I’m done with abortion :slight_smile:

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

  1. We should do what we can to help ALL those oppressed. This whole time my statements have been based off what imo we SHOULD do not what we HAVE to do. Military action is only one possible course of action, the one used in Iraq. It may not be the best course of action in other situations. Iraq doesn’t = Syria, which doesn’t = Somalia, which doesn’t equal Iran. If you want to discuss another situation, start a thread about it.

Once again, as I mentioned I have yet to give my thoughts on the war in Iraq. Look back through the thread if you must. ThHe point is, people just assummed I was all for it based on what, I don’t know.

We bombed Iraq because we were at war. You keep equating this to freedom, as if all we can do to give people an opportunity to be free is bomb, which I don’t agree with.

Everyone is equally deserving of freedom, which is why I think we should help where we can. I don’t think we deserve it any more than the people of Iran or Iraq.

Again, it’s always an extreme. It’s either nation building or dead civilians. Have civilians died, yes, is that okay, no. It’s an unfortunate side of war, which is ugly.

  1. I would have to look into the $ given, who is receiving them, what they are being used for, etc… before saying whether I am for or against increasing foreign aid. I am not for just throwing money at problems.

  2. I think those of us with a little common sense can see through the over exaggerate crap guys like Hanity spew and reality. As frustrating as it is for you it is equally frustrating for a person like me that just wants to help, but is seen as a conservative and thus must hate the poor or _______(insert some group). It’s garbage and it pisses me off.

  3. It’s not a stretch at all, except I seriously doubt most people even republicans/conservatives want to ban contraception. Now abortion is a completely different story and I am 100% against abortion, in certain circumstance. I’d suggest you start another abortion thread for the 100th time if you’d like to go down that rabbit hole.

What I think you are failing to see is, for me *no one else just me), I don’t want to see more unwanted children. I also don’t want the remains of a “fetus” sucked out into a vacuum clear because that “fetus” is an inconvenience. I believe strongly in dealing with the consequences of your actions. There are exceptions, like rape, but in this case pregnancy from rape, I have to imagine is a small #. It’s not a black and white issue, and that’s all I will say on that.

Healthcare and education are different topics. You see abortion as forcing reproductive choice I see it as stopping murder, which is a huge difference. I also think being pro-birth as you put it doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. Again, it’s about consequences of actions. Now that’s I’m done with abortion :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I’d say it’s a pretty big stretch to say we bombed Iraq because we were at war at best. We purposefully went into Iraq. That was an absolute choice made by our government. We were given a set of reasons why that needed to take place. Those reasons were proven to be absolute horseshit. We ABSOLUTELY could have waited to make sure. Iraq wasn’t even remotely a threat except to those who wanted to say it was one.

It turned into nation building after it was proven they fucked up by going in. We lost lives, Iraqi civilians lost lives, we spent trillions of dollars because of something we “thought” they had or at the least were told they had. We fucking had weapons inspectors doing their jobs there, but we told them to fuck off. We’re coming in guns blazing. It got changed into delivering freedom and nation building because the real reason we went in was a fucking outrageous flat out lie.

As for the entitlement shit, I just don’t get so called “conservatives” sometimes. If a news story breaks today of a woman making 75,000 dollars with three kids who used a food stamp it’s an absolute outrage. Fraud in the system. Fucking takers. Obama, liberals, fucking let’s go nuts. And you know what that IS absolute bullshit. But it is SMALL peas compared to the F-35. It’s a freaking penny compared to trillions on the Iraq War. But it’s defense, and you don’t question crony capitalism or fraud or waste when it comes to defense. You won’t see that on Fox News, or Brietbart or anything else. Talk about that and you’re not a patriot. Talk about that and you want us to be weak. Talk about that and you hate the troops. Oh you’ll see Tea Party rallies and outrage over the woman with the food stamp. You’ll hear the right go nuts as the perfect example of goddamn socialism. And we WILL have every right to be outraged over that. But see that same “small government” side explode over taxpayer waste in an area we spend so much more than everyone like defense? Yeah fucking right.

We can be done talking about abortion I didn’t really mean to get into that…but your stance is quite telling. You want to have actions that lead to unwanted pregnancies (who the fuck do you think is getting abortions, women who DON’T want the kids) and yes contraceptives are usually on the agenda for religious wackos (see Rick Santorum)…but you specifically said no need to pay for them once they are here. So a kid born to a woman who CAN’T support that kid you don’t feel it is your obligation to do anything? You’re blaming the kid for who he/she was born with? Again, striking inconsistency when talking about stuff out of people’s control.

I think it’s immoral to support actions that would increase the amount of unwanted children and then say it’s not on society to help those kids out. I guess we can be against murder while in the womb, but once out fuck those kids? After all, actions have consequences. Shouldn’t have been born to that mom.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Oh God here we go, cry me a river over defense spending. [/quote]

Although I don’t share the extreme views of some here, it is important to consider the long term consequences…and there are many.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/iraq-war-anniversary-idUSL1N0C5FBN20130314

[/quote]

For me the spending is a huge issue, but I didn’t get to sit in those budget meetings. The thing is, imo, the removal of Saddam gives a chance to those that never ever would have had one. To me that is priceless. Will it amount to anything, maybe, maybe not. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have tried.

Everyone has their thoughts, mine are, we give billions away to fat slobs with a dozen kids, but we can’t spend money helping the oppresed? I don’t agree with that that is all. [/quote]

Why are you not jumping up and down supporting us invading Egypt, Syria, Iran, Russia, China, most of Africa, etc? Is there something special about people in Iraq or is oppression oppression? I can only assume you think our work has just started and we need to get busy with the rest of the world correct? I mean we should at least try right?

That’s just being consistent. [/quote]

Did nanyone say anything about Egypt, Syria, Ira, Russia, China, Africa, etc… How do you know my thought on the matter?

Ya actually, if some dick head is spraying “his” people with mustad gas, I’d say we should step in. Oh, but it’s expensive, says the RICHEST nation in the world that consumes THE MOST resources.

It’s cool though we can sit behind a computer enjoying our freedom, I mean fuck those kids in Africa being forced into slavery or prositution, the DOW is down…[/quote]

So wait a second. You have a problem with wasteful govt spending on people right here in this country in the form of entitlement programs that essentially use taxpayer money to better the lives of Americans who are struggling…and yet it’s okay to bomb people into democracy halfway around the world with taxpayer money?

We’re the richest nation in the world so we should be spreading freedom and saving lives all around the world, but the second someone says we should use those resources to help support the poor and infirm in our own country people like you fly off the handle about entitlement programs that go toward paying for people who don’t put into the system and that sort of thing. What the FUCK has one single Iraqi put into the American system that justifies spending trillions of dollars on them?

If we’re going to blow trillions of dollars of taxpayer money, I’d prefer we do it here in the form of entitlement programs that ostensibly aim to help the less fortunate Americans amongst us before we start doing the exact same thing in Iraq. [/quote]

No DB, I have a problem with wasting tax payer dollars right here in America on people that DON’T NEED it. Just like i have a problem with wasting money on foreigners that DON’t NEED it.

I am not for “bombing people into democracy”. I am for doing what we can to allow others the OPPORTUNITY to be free.

You can make assumptions about me all you want, that doesn’t make them true. I haven’t been against entitlement programs for those that NEED them. I; howver, don’t beleive everyone receiving enitltment benefits in this country NEEDS them.

Do you see where my distinction is?

My justification is I want to help those that can’t help themselve, you many not agree, which is fine. That’s my reason though. [/quote]

I work with people all the time who are on all sorts of forms of govt assistance. They all need it. I see your distinction, but I don’t know what constitutes “need”. All I know is that whatever those Iraqis needed over there, we spent trillions of dollars and didn’t give it to them. It’s just a different boot stepping on them now.[/quote]

That’s a valid point and certainly debatable. Need is a subjective term to be sure. I persoanlly think we tend to over inflate what wee really “need” here. Again though, that is debatable.

What’s funny is, I have yet to give my opinion of the war itself, that’s just not how this thread evolved. People have just jumped to their own conclusions, which whatver. [/quote]

Well, I certainly think we NEED food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education and programs designed to combat alcohol and drug abuse. I don’t know about the last need, but the first five listed are a HUGE majority of the “entitlement budget”. And yet, for the most part, the same people who attack those programs are the ones who want to bomb people into democracy all over the world.

88

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

  1. We should do what we can to help ALL those oppressed. This whole time my statements have been based off what imo we SHOULD do not what we HAVE to do. Military action is only one possible course of action, the one used in Iraq. It may not be the best course of action in other situations. Iraq doesn’t = Syria, which doesn’t = Somalia, which doesn’t equal Iran. If you want to discuss another situation, start a thread about it.

Once again, as I mentioned I have yet to give my thoughts on the war in Iraq. Look back through the thread if you must. ThHe point is, people just assummed I was all for it based on what, I don’t know.

We bombed Iraq because we were at war. You keep equating this to freedom, as if all we can do to give people an opportunity to be free is bomb, which I don’t agree with.

Everyone is equally deserving of freedom, which is why I think we should help where we can. I don’t think we deserve it any more than the people of Iran or Iraq.

Again, it’s always an extreme. It’s either nation building or dead civilians. Have civilians died, yes, is that okay, no. It’s an unfortunate side of war, which is ugly.

  1. I would have to look into the $ given, who is receiving them, what they are being used for, etc… before saying whether I am for or against increasing foreign aid. I am not for just throwing money at problems.

  2. I think those of us with a little common sense can see through the over exaggerate crap guys like Hanity spew and reality. As frustrating as it is for you it is equally frustrating for a person like me that just wants to help, but is seen as a conservative and thus must hate the poor or _______(insert some group). It’s garbage and it pisses me off.

  3. It’s not a stretch at all, except I seriously doubt most people even republicans/conservatives want to ban contraception. Now abortion is a completely different story and I am 100% against abortion, in certain circumstance. I’d suggest you start another abortion thread for the 100th time if you’d like to go down that rabbit hole.

What I think you are failing to see is, for me *no one else just me), I don’t want to see more unwanted children. I also don’t want the remains of a “fetus” sucked out into a vacuum clear because that “fetus” is an inconvenience. I believe strongly in dealing with the consequences of your actions. There are exceptions, like rape, but in this case pregnancy from rape, I have to imagine is a small #. It’s not a black and white issue, and that’s all I will say on that.

Healthcare and education are different topics. You see abortion as forcing reproductive choice I see it as stopping murder, which is a huge difference. I also think being pro-birth as you put it doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. Again, it’s about consequences of actions. Now that’s I’m done with abortion :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I’d say it’s a pretty big stretch to say we bombed Iraq because we were at war at best. We purposefully went into Iraq. That was an absolute choice made by our government. We were given a set of reasons why that needed to take place. Those reasons were proven to be absolute horseshit. We ABSOLUTELY could have waited to make sure. Iraq wasn’t even remotely a threat except to those who wanted to say it was one.

It turned into nation building after it was proven they fucked up by going in. We lost lives, Iraqi civilians lost lives, we spent trillions of dollars because of something we “thought” they had or at the least were told they had. We fucking had weapons inspectors doing their jobs there, but we told them to fuck off. We’re coming in guns blazing. It got changed into delivering freedom and nation building because the real reason we went in was a fucking outrageous flat out lie.

As for the entitlement shit, I just don’t get so called “conservatives” sometimes. If a news story breaks today of a woman making 75,000 dollars with three kids who used a food stamp it’s an absolute outrage. Fraud in the system. Fucking takers. Obama, liberals, fucking let’s go nuts. And you know what that IS absolute bullshit. But it is SMALL peas compared to the F-35. It’s a freaking penny compared to trillions on the Iraq War. But it’s defense, and you don’t question crony capitalism or fraud or waste when it comes to defense. You won’t see that on Fox News, or Brietbart or anything else. Talk about that and you’re not a patriot. Talk about that and you want us to be weak. Talk about that and you hate the troops. Oh you’ll see Tea Party rallies and outrage over the woman with the food stamp. You’ll hear the right go nuts as the perfect example of goddamn socialism. And we WILL have every right to be outraged over that. But see that same “small government” side explode over taxpayer waste in an area we spend so much more than everyone like defense? Yeah fucking right.

We can be done talking about abortion I didn’t really mean to get into that…but your stance is quite telling. You want to have actions that lead to unwanted pregnancies (who the fuck do you think is getting abortions, women who DON’T want the kids) and yes contraceptives are usually on the agenda for religious wackos (see Rick Santorum)…but you specifically said no need to pay for them once they are here. So a kid born to a woman who CAN’T support that kid you don’t feel it is your obligation to do anything? You’re blaming the kid for who he/she was born with? Again, striking inconsistency when talking about stuff out of people’s control.

I think it’s immoral to support actions that would increase the amount of unwanted children and then say it’s not on society to help those kids out. I guess we can be against murder while in the womb, but once out fuck those kids? [/quote]

Right, to remove Hussein from power, a man that killed his own people with chemical weapons. Why do you think we went into Iraq? Intelligence pointed to WMDs, what do you want to hear? They weren’t there, maybe they were before, but they weren’t found. You want me to apologize for it, I was in high school when the war started so…

I don’t beleive former Presdient Bush just wanted to invade for the hell of it, what did he have to gain? Sure we could have waited, like we did in WWI & WWII. Question is how many lives could we have saved had we not waited? Or, what if Hussein had had WMDs and had used them to kill thousands of his own people or ignite a war with Iran, what then?

It’s an outrage because she makes a considerable amount of money and is abusing a system, you don’t see that? I’d rather give those food stamps to a mentally ill person, a homeless guy, or an African child that eats once a week. Not some lady that make well above average income in America.

I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that a replacement for the the F/A-18 hornet and super hornet is a MUST if we are to maintain air superiority. The F-35 is the proposed replacement. You can argue about the cost, function, etc…but the FACT of the matter is the F/A-18 platform is in serious trouble. Like, can’t find parts, trouble. The airframes are being forced beyond safe flight hours.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY I AM FOR CLEANING UP DEFENSE SPENDING AND REDUCING IT AS WELL. Do you know why teh F-22 Raptor is so expensive, because comapnies like Lockhead Martin charge a fuck ton for them (not sure if the do the f-22’s might be Boeing). Point is CAPITALISM is why they cost so much, that and they are advanced pieces of machinery. It aint no model T.

You have gone complete off on an irrelevant tangent, have I called you or even that Lifty guy unpatrotic, no. Christ, relax. I don’t care if you want to spend less of the military. Don’t cry though if China decides they want Hawaii and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. You reap what you sow.

Unwanted pregnacy > than murder, imo. So ya got meI guess you’re right. Religious wackos don’t represent my views, I am fine with all forms of contraception, except with abortion as contreception.

No, I specifically said if the woman can’t afford the kid to take the child away. Are you messing with me? We shouldn’t reward her for giving birth by giving her food stamps that’s for sure. If she can’t afford the child I will happily step in, but not if it’s a cycle that will continue forever. Keep stretching my words though that’s cool. It’s not telling at all about you is it?

You are cracking me up, you make me out to be an asshole because I EXPECT both the mother and father of a child to pay for that child while you are for KILLING that child because it would be unwanted. The mom/dad may not want that baby, but I bet that baby sure as hell wants to live. You can get off your high horse with that nonsense.

Yes, fuck those kid., that’s exactly what I wrote. Give me a break.

89

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

So who were we murdering/stealing from when the national guard was sent into post Katrina New Orleans? [/quote]

The fact that they wear military costumes to “help” people should be an obvious fact they are a threat and only there for a display of force. They weren’t there to help people by carrying tactical weapons around flood victims.

They stole weapons from people. They forced people to leave their homes. They went door-to-door to do it.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/01/4114-hurricane-katrina-door-to-door-firearms-confiscation/

http://godfatherpolitics.com/9239/gun-confiscation-during-hurricane-katrina-gives-us-picture-of-road-ahead/

Guess what happened to people who did not want to comply.

Just an other day for costumed thugs as usual.[/quote]

I guess you want me to respond to your garbage huh? If members of the miliatry acted with misconduct they should be punished like everyone else.

Are you happy now? You win evil America is so…evil.

90

are you guys really reading all that stuff and clicking on all those links?
if you have an argument then keep your points short.
here is my argument, commit genocide of your people and/or neighboring nations then you get taken the fuck out.
its not complicated.
iraqis lived in terror for a decade you privileged whiny cunts and saddam hussein told the United Nations to fuck off. not this year saddam.

the world is full of genocidal maniacs and we cant just wall ourselves off and watch the world fall apart around us

91

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Well, I certainly think we NEED food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education and programs designed to combat alcohol and drug abuse. I don’t know about the last need, but the first five listed are a HUGE majority of the “entitlement budget”. And yet, for the most part, the same people who attack those programs are the ones who want to bomb people into democracy all over the world.[/quote]

I’m not one of those people.

92

[quote]eremesu wrote:
are you guys really reading all that stuff and clicking on all those links?
if you have an argument then keep your points short.
here is my argument, commit genocide of your people and/or neighboring nations then you get taken the fuck out.
its not complicated.
iraqis lived in terror for a decade you privileged whiny cunts and saddam hussein told the United Nations to fuck off. not this year saddam.

the world is full of genocidal maniacs and we cant just wall ourselves off and watch the world fall apart around us
[/quote]

No, you are wrong, it is too expensive, fuck those people being slaughtered by Saddam. They aren’t American anyway, they don’t pay taxes.

(This is sarcasm by the way).

93

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right, to remove Hussein from power, a man that killed his own people with chemical weapons. Why do you think we went into Iraq? Intelligence pointed to WMDs, what do you want to hear? They weren’t there, maybe they were before, but they weren’t found. You want me to apologize for it, I was in high school when the war started so…

I don’t beleive former Presdient Bush just wanted to invade for the hell of it, what did he have to gain? Sure we could have waited, like we did in WWI & WWII. Question is how many lives could we have saved had we not waited? Or, what if Hussein had had WMDs and had used them to kill thousands of his own people or ignite a war with Iran, what then?

It’s an outrage because she makes a considerable amount of money and is abusing a system, you don’t see that? I’d rather give those food stamps to a mentally ill person, a homeless guy, or an African child that eats once a week. Not some lady that make well above average income in America.

I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that a replacement for the the F/A-18 hornet and super hornet is a MUST if we are to maintain air superiority. The F-35 is the proposed replacement. You can argue about the cost, function, etc…but the FACT of the matter is the F/A-18 platform is in serious trouble. Like, can’t find parts, trouble. The airframes are being forced beyond safe flight hours.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY I AM FOR CLEANING UP DEFENSE SPENDING AND REDUCING IT AS WELL. Do you know why teh F-22 Raptor is so expensive, because comapnies like Lockhead Martin charge a fuck ton for them (not sure if the do the f-22’s might be Boeing). Point is CAPITALISM is why they cost so much, that and they are advanced pieces of machinery. It aint no model T.

You have gone complete off on an irrelevant tangent, have I called you or even that Lifty guy unpatrotic, no. Christ, relax. I don’t care if you want to spend less of the military. Don’t cry though if China decides they want Hawaii and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. You reap what you sow.

Unwanted pregnacy > than murder, imo. So ya got meI guess you’re right. Religious wackos don’t represent my views, I am fine with all forms of contraception, except with abortion as contreception.

No, I specifically said if the woman can’t afford the kid to take the child away. Are you messing with me? We shouldn’t reward her for giving birth by giving her food stamps that’s for sure. If she can’t afford the child I will happily step in, but not if it’s a cycle that will continue forever. Keep stretching my words though that’s cool. It’s not telling at all about you is it?

You are cracking me up, you make me out to be an asshole because I EXPECT both the mother and father of a child to pay for that child while you are for KILLING that child because it would be unwanted. The mom/dad may not want that baby, but I bet that baby sure as hell wants to live. You can get off your high horse with that nonsense.

Yes, fuck those kid., that’s exactly what I wrote. Give me a break. [/quote]

Saddam was a fuckhead and the world is a better place without him. All I’m wondering is why you aren’t sounding the alarm about getting the US in the tons of other places with fuckheads in them. You have been eerily silent on that which I think is inconsistency. Don’t be mad at me for pointing out the flaws in thinking it’s ok to keep other assholes in power but you say THIS was the reason for going in there.

So now the Iraq war is World War 1 and World War 2? As you’d say give me a fucking break. Iraq was nowhere near at their level of power since Desert Storm. They weren’t even remotely a threat. And the key point is HE DIDN’T FUCKING HAVE THEM. Jesus Christ. If you’re going to tell me we have to invade a fucking country because they have weapons of mass destruction and then they don’t have them you don’t think that’s kind of a big deal? WMD’s and we can’t wait were the sole reason for selling this war. Well we didn’t wait. Meanwhile trillions of dollars later you have people even supporting the thing wondering if it was worth it. You’ve got righties up in arms over some fucking food stamps, meanwhile an investment of TRILLIONS of dollars and American lives and Iraqi lives gets a “meh, maybe we did something good, maybe not. Not really sure yet.”

As for fuck those kids you specifically said pro birth doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. I’m not twisting anything. Of course the mom should do shit, but jesus christ how naive are you? What kind of uptopia society do you think exists? You think it’s going to start existing if you get rid of abortions? You think magically these people who already don’t give a fuck will start giving a fuck?

You REALLY need to go work in a public school. We have an absolute ass ton of kids in horrific situations because they never had a dad or they have a loser mom. That stuff isn’t new. It isn’t going away. Making sure those kids see the light of day is something that definitely concerns you. Not even saying it’s not a good concern. Help them once they get out? Well we don’t need to pay for the child after birth. After all once we force mom to have that baby (assuming she doesn’t back alley it (see Romania again) she will be a great mom!

94

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right, to remove Hussein from power, a man that killed his own people with chemical weapons. Why do you think we went into Iraq? Intelligence pointed to WMDs, what do you want to hear? They weren’t there, maybe they were before, but they weren’t found. You want me to apologize for it, I was in high school when the war started so…

I don’t beleive former Presdient Bush just wanted to invade for the hell of it, what did he have to gain? Sure we could have waited, like we did in WWI & WWII. Question is how many lives could we have saved had we not waited? Or, what if Hussein had had WMDs and had used them to kill thousands of his own people or ignite a war with Iran, what then?

It’s an outrage because she makes a considerable amount of money and is abusing a system, you don’t see that? I’d rather give those food stamps to a mentally ill person, a homeless guy, or an African child that eats once a week. Not some lady that make well above average income in America.

I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that a replacement for the the F/A-18 hornet and super hornet is a MUST if we are to maintain air superiority. The F-35 is the proposed replacement. You can argue about the cost, function, etc…but the FACT of the matter is the F/A-18 platform is in serious trouble. Like, can’t find parts, trouble. The airframes are being forced beyond safe flight hours.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY I AM FOR CLEANING UP DEFENSE SPENDING AND REDUCING IT AS WELL. Do you know why teh F-22 Raptor is so expensive, because comapnies like Lockhead Martin charge a fuck ton for them (not sure if the do the f-22’s might be Boeing). Point is CAPITALISM is why they cost so much, that and they are advanced pieces of machinery. It aint no model T.

You have gone complete off on an irrelevant tangent, have I called you or even that Lifty guy unpatrotic, no. Christ, relax. I don’t care if you want to spend less of the military. Don’t cry though if China decides they want Hawaii and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. You reap what you sow.

Unwanted pregnacy > than murder, imo. So ya got meI guess you’re right. Religious wackos don’t represent my views, I am fine with all forms of contraception, except with abortion as contreception.

No, I specifically said if the woman can’t afford the kid to take the child away. Are you messing with me? We shouldn’t reward her for giving birth by giving her food stamps that’s for sure. If she can’t afford the child I will happily step in, but not if it’s a cycle that will continue forever. Keep stretching my words though that’s cool. It’s not telling at all about you is it?

You are cracking me up, you make me out to be an asshole because I EXPECT both the mother and father of a child to pay for that child while you are for KILLING that child because it would be unwanted. The mom/dad may not want that baby, but I bet that baby sure as hell wants to live. You can get off your high horse with that nonsense.

Yes, fuck those kid., that’s exactly what I wrote. Give me a break. [/quote]

Saddam was a fuckhead and the world is a better place without him. All I’m wondering is why you aren’t sounding the alarm about getting the US in the tons of other places with fuckheads in them. You have been eerily silent on that which I think is inconsistency. Don’t be mad at me for pointing out the flaws in thinking it’s ok to keep other assholes in power but you say THIS was the reason for going in there.

So now the Iraq war is World War 1 and World War 2? As you’d say give me a fucking break. Iraq was nowhere near at their level of power since Desert Storm. They weren’t even remotely a threat. And the key point is HE DIDN’T FUCKING HAVE THEM. Jesus Christ. If you’re going to tell me we have to invade a fucking country because they have weapons of mass destruction and then they don’t have them you don’t think that’s kind of a big deal? WMD’s and we can’t wait were the sole reason for selling this war. Well we didn’t wait. Meanwhile trillions of dollars later you have people even supporting the thing wondering if it was worth it. You’ve got righties up in arms over some fucking food stamps, meanwhile an investment of TRILLIONS of dollars and American lives and Iraqi lives gets a “meh, maybe we did something good, maybe not. Not really sure yet.”

As for fuck those kids you specifically said pro birth doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. I’m not twisting anything. Of course the mom should do shit, but jesus christ how naive are you? What kind of uptopia society do you think exists? You think it’s going to start existing if you get rid of abortions? You think magically these people who already don’t give a fuck will start giving a fuck?

You REALLY need to go work in a public school. We have an absolute ass ton of kids in horrific situations because they never had a dad or they have a loser mom. That stuff isn’t new. It isn’t going away. Making sure those kids see the light of day is something that definitely concerns you. Not even saying it’s not a good concern. Help them once they get out? Well we don’t need to pay for the child after birth. After all once we force mom to have that baby (assuming she doesn’t back alley it (see Romania again) she will be a great mom! [/quote]

Jesus dude, seriously how many times do I need to say this. You are the one bring up other places in a thread about Iraq. I will gladly comment on otehr situtions, make the thread and we’ll go from there.

I never even mentioned others dick heads in power, ask me what I think, and I’ll answer.

Earily silent, THE THREAD IS CALLED IRAQ INVASION 10 YEARS AGO, not hey what do you think of every fucked up dictator on this planet.

It was a comparision you obviosuly didn’t get regarding WWI & II. I never compared them in scale on in us WAITING to get involved, which is what you suggested. Do you even read my posts or just pick little pieces out?

You’re right he didn’t have them. Okay, there was no way for us to know that. The intellgence community said they were there. Sometimes in life you are wrong.

Again, you are bringing up partied, I thought you didn’t care about parties?

You obviosuly either can’t read or you are so stuck on your view you can’t read clearly. What is your solution, suck babies out of their mothers womb? Sorry I dont’ agree with that.

I guess it’s my fault dads a dead beat and moms a crack head. Take the kids, put them in foster home, make mom and dad pay for it. If that doens’t work well FUCK DUDE I don’t have all the answers.

Again twisting words, I;m not FORCING her to do shit, she did it to herself ALL ON HER OWN. Again take the kid and put him in a foster home, make her & the dad pay for it.

95

I think average people lose the sense of money value at about 1 million. So spending a billion or a trillion sounds like the same thing.

98

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right, to remove Hussein from power, a man that killed his own people with chemical weapons. Why do you think we went into Iraq? Intelligence pointed to WMDs, what do you want to hear? They weren’t there, maybe they were before, but they weren’t found. You want me to apologize for it, I was in high school when the war started so…

I don’t beleive former Presdient Bush just wanted to invade for the hell of it, what did he have to gain? Sure we could have waited, like we did in WWI & WWII. Question is how many lives could we have saved had we not waited? Or, what if Hussein had had WMDs and had used them to kill thousands of his own people or ignite a war with Iran, what then?

It’s an outrage because she makes a considerable amount of money and is abusing a system, you don’t see that? I’d rather give those food stamps to a mentally ill person, a homeless guy, or an African child that eats once a week. Not some lady that make well above average income in America.

I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that a replacement for the the F/A-18 hornet and super hornet is a MUST if we are to maintain air superiority. The F-35 is the proposed replacement. You can argue about the cost, function, etc…but the FACT of the matter is the F/A-18 platform is in serious trouble. Like, can’t find parts, trouble. The airframes are being forced beyond safe flight hours.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY I AM FOR CLEANING UP DEFENSE SPENDING AND REDUCING IT AS WELL. Do you know why teh F-22 Raptor is so expensive, because comapnies like Lockhead Martin charge a fuck ton for them (not sure if the do the f-22’s might be Boeing). Point is CAPITALISM is why they cost so much, that and they are advanced pieces of machinery. It aint no model T.

You have gone complete off on an irrelevant tangent, have I called you or even that Lifty guy unpatrotic, no. Christ, relax. I don’t care if you want to spend less of the military. Don’t cry though if China decides they want Hawaii and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. You reap what you sow.

Unwanted pregnacy > than murder, imo. So ya got meI guess you’re right. Religious wackos don’t represent my views, I am fine with all forms of contraception, except with abortion as contreception.

No, I specifically said if the woman can’t afford the kid to take the child away. Are you messing with me? We shouldn’t reward her for giving birth by giving her food stamps that’s for sure. If she can’t afford the child I will happily step in, but not if it’s a cycle that will continue forever. Keep stretching my words though that’s cool. It’s not telling at all about you is it?

You are cracking me up, you make me out to be an asshole because I EXPECT both the mother and father of a child to pay for that child while you are for KILLING that child because it would be unwanted. The mom/dad may not want that baby, but I bet that baby sure as hell wants to live. You can get off your high horse with that nonsense.

Yes, fuck those kid., that’s exactly what I wrote. Give me a break. [/quote]

Saddam was a fuckhead and the world is a better place without him. All I’m wondering is why you aren’t sounding the alarm about getting the US in the tons of other places with fuckheads in them. You have been eerily silent on that which I think is inconsistency. Don’t be mad at me for pointing out the flaws in thinking it’s ok to keep other assholes in power but you say THIS was the reason for going in there.

So now the Iraq war is World War 1 and World War 2? As you’d say give me a fucking break. Iraq was nowhere near at their level of power since Desert Storm. They weren’t even remotely a threat. And the key point is HE DIDN’T FUCKING HAVE THEM. Jesus Christ. If you’re going to tell me we have to invade a fucking country because they have weapons of mass destruction and then they don’t have them you don’t think that’s kind of a big deal? WMD’s and we can’t wait were the sole reason for selling this war. Well we didn’t wait. Meanwhile trillions of dollars later you have people even supporting the thing wondering if it was worth it. You’ve got righties up in arms over some fucking food stamps, meanwhile an investment of TRILLIONS of dollars and American lives and Iraqi lives gets a “meh, maybe we did something good, maybe not. Not really sure yet.”

As for fuck those kids you specifically said pro birth doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. I’m not twisting anything. Of course the mom should do shit, but jesus christ how naive are you? What kind of uptopia society do you think exists? You think it’s going to start existing if you get rid of abortions? You think magically these people who already don’t give a fuck will start giving a fuck?

You REALLY need to go work in a public school. We have an absolute ass ton of kids in horrific situations because they never had a dad or they have a loser mom. That stuff isn’t new. It isn’t going away. Making sure those kids see the light of day is something that definitely concerns you. Not even saying it’s not a good concern. Help them once they get out? Well we don’t need to pay for the child after birth. After all once we force mom to have that baby (assuming she doesn’t back alley it (see Romania again) she will be a great mom! [/quote]

Jesus dude, seriously how many times do I need to say this. You are the one bring up other places in a thread about Iraq. I will gladly comment on otehr situtions, make the thread and we’ll go from there.

I never even mentioned others dick heads in power, ask me what I think, and I’ll answer.

Earily silent, THE THREAD IS CALLED IRAQ INVASION 10 YEARS AGO, not hey what do you think of every fucked up dictator on this planet.

It was a comparision you obviosuly didn’t get regarding WWI & II. I never compared them in scale on in us WAITING to get involved, which is what you suggested. Do you even read my posts or just pick little pieces out?

You’re right he didn’t have them. Okay, there was no way for us to know that. The intellgence community said they were there. Sometimes in life you are wrong.

Again, you are bringing up partied, I thought you didn’t care about parties?

You obviosuly either can’t read or you are so stuck on your view you can’t read clearly. What is your solution, suck babies out of their mothers womb? Sorry I dont’ agree with that.

I guess it’s my fault dads a dead beat and moms a crack head. Take the kids, put them in foster home, make mom and dad pay for it. If that doens’t work well FUCK DUDE I don’t have all the answers.

Again twisting words, I;m not FORCING her to do shit, she did it to herself ALL ON HER OWN. Again take the kid and put him in a foster home, make her & the dad pay for it.
[/quote]

I really don’t think I’m twisting anything. I’ve got three things you seem to not want to touch:

  1. If oppression is bad and a worthwhile reason to go into places (as you say is the reason for going into Iraq) then why do I not see threads from you talking about all the other places we should be invading? (I can say nation building if you prefer…how about peacefully entering with bombs?) Yeah the thread is about the Iraq War, but you have a unique perspective where you say oppression is a reason for going here, but when I ask about other places you say “dude we’re talking about Iraq!” Which is an interesting excuse considering you want to talk about World War 2 or 1 as well, but it’s not ok for me to ask questions of other places.

  2. You keep saying intelligence was wrong like it was a slam dunk the entire world thought they were there. No, the people who WANTED them to be there really thought they were there. Why don’t you just google iraq war intelligence lies or something along those lines. I’m not going to throw up a bunch of links that won’t get read. And it’s not JUST that WMD’s were not found it was the haste of going over there before knowing that WASN’T necessary. Again, you had a government who really wanted to go over there for god knows whatever reasons. Oil, he was a dick, whatever. Iraq was NOT an immediate U.S. security threat, nowhere near one, and the reasons for thinking it might be did not exist. You casually toss around trillions and numerous dead people as “eh, you win some you lose some. Guess we got that call wrong.”

  3. Why would it be your fault? You specifically said it’s not on you to pay for those kids. Again you’re living in a weird world of problems that don’t actually exist. It isn’t like America has a giant problem of really rich people with lots of kids and they just don’t feel like paying for it. You want mom and dad to pay for the foster home? Shit, most of the time dad doesn’t exist and mom not being able to pay for shit is the reason FOR the foster home. Make the people who have no money pay for the situation they created is hardly a solution. This idea that every shitty situation in America is because mom’s a lazy drug addict just isn’t based in any sort of reality. And people who can pay and have the money to pay aren’t getting kids put in foster homes on the regular.

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:
What I don’t understand is why conservatives by and large fly off the handle about wasteful govt spending when it’s spent here on entitlement programs but not when we spend it on “saving” people in Iraq or anywhere else around the globe through military intervention. We just blew about 2 trillion dollars on a wasted expenditure. It could be upwards of 6 trillion when interest payments are included.

It’s hypocrisy at its finest. “Yay, let’s spread democracy around the world by bombing everybody into it at a huge cost to ourselves, but God forbid we take that money and use it here in America on people who need it.”[/quote]

You are mixing up conservative with republican.

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[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
What I don’t understand is why conservatives by and large fly off the handle about wasteful govt spending when it’s spent here on entitlement programs but not when we spend it on “saving” people in Iraq or anywhere else around the globe through military intervention. We just blew about 2 trillion dollars on a wasted expenditure. It could be upwards of 6 trillion when interest payments are included.

It’s hypocrisy at its finest. “Yay, let’s spread democracy around the world by bombing everybody into it at a huge cost to ourselves, but God forbid we take that money and use it here in America on people who need it.”[/quote]

You are mixing up conservative with republican. [/quote]

It can’t go both ways. Many of those speakers at the CPAC were Republican party members. How many were conservative party members? Tired of current conservatives acting like they are Republicans when it helps them and acting like they are not when it doesn’t. You can’t vote Republican down the ticket, only support Republicans, and then back out with “well we’re not Republicans, we’re conservatives.” Bullshit, same thing as of right now. Really hope a third party comes out of it, but highly doubtful. Just too much legwork.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the fighting, but for now it’s funny to watch both sides be what helps them out most.