Iraq Invasion 10 Years Ago

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]H factor wrote:
Many of those speakers at the CPAC were Republican party members. How many were conservative party members? [/quote]

I would say there were a couple of good conservatives, and a couple establishment DBags, and a couple that are headed towards becoming establishment.

The point of my post was basically saying a true conservative wouldn’t feel like he described, but what he described was true of many people that would lable themselves as a conservative. And a vast majority of those people in the second group are republican.

I’m not saying anything he said was wrong.

No way man. It works the other way too.

Not every liberal is a progressive.

Supporting a party or a certain person in a party during an election is a seperate matter really.

You have two choices in a general election

  1. vote one of the two parties
  2. vote 3rd party

Just because someone chooses 1, doesn’t make them a liberal, conservative, progressive, democrat or whatever. It just means they figured their vote was best placed in one person’s favor.

[quote] Really hope a third party comes out of it, but highly doubtful. Just too much legwork.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the fighting, but for now it’s funny to watch both sides be what helps them out most. [/quote]

I don’t have time to go into this as much as it deserves.

102

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right, to remove Hussein from power, a man that killed his own people with chemical weapons. Why do you think we went into Iraq? Intelligence pointed to WMDs, what do you want to hear? They weren’t there, maybe they were before, but they weren’t found. You want me to apologize for it, I was in high school when the war started so…

I don’t beleive former Presdient Bush just wanted to invade for the hell of it, what did he have to gain? Sure we could have waited, like we did in WWI & WWII. Question is how many lives could we have saved had we not waited? Or, what if Hussein had had WMDs and had used them to kill thousands of his own people or ignite a war with Iran, what then?

It’s an outrage because she makes a considerable amount of money and is abusing a system, you don’t see that? I’d rather give those food stamps to a mentally ill person, a homeless guy, or an African child that eats once a week. Not some lady that make well above average income in America.

I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that a replacement for the the F/A-18 hornet and super hornet is a MUST if we are to maintain air superiority. The F-35 is the proposed replacement. You can argue about the cost, function, etc…but the FACT of the matter is the F/A-18 platform is in serious trouble. Like, can’t find parts, trouble. The airframes are being forced beyond safe flight hours.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY I AM FOR CLEANING UP DEFENSE SPENDING AND REDUCING IT AS WELL. Do you know why teh F-22 Raptor is so expensive, because comapnies like Lockhead Martin charge a fuck ton for them (not sure if the do the f-22’s might be Boeing). Point is CAPITALISM is why they cost so much, that and they are advanced pieces of machinery. It aint no model T.

You have gone complete off on an irrelevant tangent, have I called you or even that Lifty guy unpatrotic, no. Christ, relax. I don’t care if you want to spend less of the military. Don’t cry though if China decides they want Hawaii and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. You reap what you sow.

Unwanted pregnacy > than murder, imo. So ya got meI guess you’re right. Religious wackos don’t represent my views, I am fine with all forms of contraception, except with abortion as contreception.

No, I specifically said if the woman can’t afford the kid to take the child away. Are you messing with me? We shouldn’t reward her for giving birth by giving her food stamps that’s for sure. If she can’t afford the child I will happily step in, but not if it’s a cycle that will continue forever. Keep stretching my words though that’s cool. It’s not telling at all about you is it?

You are cracking me up, you make me out to be an asshole because I EXPECT both the mother and father of a child to pay for that child while you are for KILLING that child because it would be unwanted. The mom/dad may not want that baby, but I bet that baby sure as hell wants to live. You can get off your high horse with that nonsense.

Yes, fuck those kid., that’s exactly what I wrote. Give me a break. [/quote]

Saddam was a fuckhead and the world is a better place without him. All I’m wondering is why you aren’t sounding the alarm about getting the US in the tons of other places with fuckheads in them. You have been eerily silent on that which I think is inconsistency. Don’t be mad at me for pointing out the flaws in thinking it’s ok to keep other assholes in power but you say THIS was the reason for going in there.

So now the Iraq war is World War 1 and World War 2? As you’d say give me a fucking break. Iraq was nowhere near at their level of power since Desert Storm. They weren’t even remotely a threat. And the key point is HE DIDN’T FUCKING HAVE THEM. Jesus Christ. If you’re going to tell me we have to invade a fucking country because they have weapons of mass destruction and then they don’t have them you don’t think that’s kind of a big deal? WMD’s and we can’t wait were the sole reason for selling this war. Well we didn’t wait. Meanwhile trillions of dollars later you have people even supporting the thing wondering if it was worth it. You’ve got righties up in arms over some fucking food stamps, meanwhile an investment of TRILLIONS of dollars and American lives and Iraqi lives gets a “meh, maybe we did something good, maybe not. Not really sure yet.”

As for fuck those kids you specifically said pro birth doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. I’m not twisting anything. Of course the mom should do shit, but jesus christ how naive are you? What kind of uptopia society do you think exists? You think it’s going to start existing if you get rid of abortions? You think magically these people who already don’t give a fuck will start giving a fuck?

You REALLY need to go work in a public school. We have an absolute ass ton of kids in horrific situations because they never had a dad or they have a loser mom. That stuff isn’t new. It isn’t going away. Making sure those kids see the light of day is something that definitely concerns you. Not even saying it’s not a good concern. Help them once they get out? Well we don’t need to pay for the child after birth. After all once we force mom to have that baby (assuming she doesn’t back alley it (see Romania again) she will be a great mom! [/quote]

Jesus dude, seriously how many times do I need to say this. You are the one bring up other places in a thread about Iraq. I will gladly comment on otehr situtions, make the thread and we’ll go from there.

I never even mentioned others dick heads in power, ask me what I think, and I’ll answer.

Earily silent, THE THREAD IS CALLED IRAQ INVASION 10 YEARS AGO, not hey what do you think of every fucked up dictator on this planet.

It was a comparision you obviosuly didn’t get regarding WWI & II. I never compared them in scale on in us WAITING to get involved, which is what you suggested. Do you even read my posts or just pick little pieces out?

You’re right he didn’t have them. Okay, there was no way for us to know that. The intellgence community said they were there. Sometimes in life you are wrong.

Again, you are bringing up partied, I thought you didn’t care about parties?

You obviosuly either can’t read or you are so stuck on your view you can’t read clearly. What is your solution, suck babies out of their mothers womb? Sorry I dont’ agree with that.

I guess it’s my fault dads a dead beat and moms a crack head. Take the kids, put them in foster home, make mom and dad pay for it. If that doens’t work well FUCK DUDE I don’t have all the answers.

Again twisting words, I;m not FORCING her to do shit, she did it to herself ALL ON HER OWN. Again take the kid and put him in a foster home, make her & the dad pay for it.
[/quote]

I really don’t think I’m twisting anything. I’ve got three things you seem to not want to touch:

  1. If oppression is bad and a worthwhile reason to go into places (as you say is the reason for going into Iraq) then why do I not see threads from you talking about all the other places we should be invading? (I can say nation building if you prefer…how about peacefully entering with bombs?) Yeah the thread is about the Iraq War, but you have a unique perspective where you say oppression is a reason for going here, but when I ask about other places you say “dude we’re talking about Iraq!” Which is an interesting excuse considering you want to talk about World War 2 or 1 as well, but it’s not ok for me to ask questions of other places.

  2. You keep saying intelligence was wrong like it was a slam dunk the entire world thought they were there. No, the people who WANTED them to be there really thought they were there. Why don’t you just google iraq war intelligence lies or something along those lines. I’m not going to throw up a bunch of links that won’t get read. And it’s not JUST that WMD’s were not found it was the haste of going over there before knowing that WASN’T necessary. Again, you had a government who really wanted to go over there for god knows whatever reasons. Oil, he was a dick, whatever. Iraq was NOT an immediate U.S. security threat, nowhere near one, and the reasons for thinking it might be did not exist. You casually toss around trillions and numerous dead people as “eh, you win some you lose some. Guess we got that call wrong.”

  3. Why would it be your fault? You specifically said it’s not on you to pay for those kids. Again you’re living in a weird world of problems that don’t actually exist. It isn’t like America has a giant problem of really rich people with lots of kids and they just don’t feel like paying for it. You want mom and dad to pay for the foster home? Shit, most of the time dad doesn’t exist and mom not being able to pay for shit is the reason FOR the foster home. Make the people who have no money pay for the situation they created is hardly a solution. This idea that every shitty situation in America is because mom’s a lazy drug addict just isn’t based in any sort of reality. And people who can pay and have the money to pay aren’t getting kids put in foster homes on the regular.

[/quote]

  1. Oppression is bad, like I’ve already said multiple time, we should do everything we can to help the people being oppressed. I don’t start threads in pwi often and I’m not required to in order for my point to be heard. I haven’t commented on other example because this is a thread about Iraq. For the 5th or so time, if you would like to discuss what we should do in another scenario, go ahead and start a thread. No one is stopping.

I honestly don’t understand how you aren’t getting what I’m saying.

  1. Hind sight is 20/20. Maybe former President Bush & his advisers were just dying to finish what dad started and Clinton didn’t have the balls to finish. I seriously doubt that. Just like I don’t Obama is a socialist hell bent on destroying American, I don’t think Bush had any other intention then to stop a MAD MAN from using WMDs that thought were there. If the intel was wrong or they only saw what they wanted then shame on them, but I’m not privy to that information, I wasn’t in those meeting, and I was a part of the inspection crew in Iraq.

Again I’ll ask, if Saddam had had WMDs and he had killed 100K before we acted what then? Sometime, unlike on the internet, you have to make a decision with the information you have. You can’t always just wait.

I believe going to Iraq had more to do with stability in the region than U.S. security. How many other countries backed the U.S. led coalition? I guess they were all just greedy capitalist wanting oil right? How much is oil per gallon these days?

  1. This is where you are twisting my words, whether it’s deliberate or not. I believe in personal responsibility. I do not believe in simply absolving folks of that responsibility simply because it’s convenient. There is always a father and ever effort should be used to find him. He and the mother should pay for that child’s life. If they are unfit to raise the child the child should be put in a foster home and the parents wages should be garnished. If they still can’t pay throw them in jail for all I care. Have them make license plates to feed their kid. If all that is still not enough then I will GLADLY pay for that child through taxes and donations. Because, like the kids in Iraq, they should be afforded the opportunity at life. Not sucked out of their moms womb via a vacuum cleaner, your solution. Is my stance clear now?

For you Cliff Notes:

  1. Oppression bad
  2. I am for helping those being oppressed
  3. Military is not only option
  4. I would put boots on the ground in Syria, Egypt, Iran, North Korea, etc… IF NEED BE.
  5. Hindsight is 20/20, intel said WMDs, can’t always wait in life to make decisions. You do what you can with you can.
  6. Easy to criticize 10 years later with ALL the facts a keyboard away. Bush didn’t have this option.
  7. Abortion = bad
  8. Dead beat parents = bad
    9.Never said it was the moms fault, but the parents RESPONSIBILITY.
  9. Situation sucks, I offered the best solution I can come up with that doesn’t involve a vacuum cleaner, what is yours?
103

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
Many of those speakers at the CPAC were Republican party members. How many were conservative party members? [/quote]

I would say there were a couple of good conservatives, and a couple establishment DBags, and a couple that are headed towards becoming establishment.

The point of my post was basically saying a true conservative wouldn’t feel like he described, but what he described was true of many people that would lable themselves as a conservative. And a vast majority of those people in the second group are republican.

I’m not saying anything he said was wrong.

No way man. It works the other way too.

Not every liberal is a progressive.

Supporting a party or a certain person in a party during an election is a seperate matter really.

You have two choices in a general election

  1. vote one of the two parties
  2. vote 3rd party

Just because someone chooses 1, doesn’t make them a liberal, conservative, progressive, democrat or whatever. It just means they figured their vote was best placed in one person’s favor.

[quote] Really hope a third party comes out of it, but highly doubtful. Just too much legwork.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the fighting, but for now it’s funny to watch both sides be what helps them out most. [/quote]

I don’t have time to go into this as much as it deserves.
[/quote]

Two main parties exist, Republicans and Democrats. Yes within those two parties a lot of different viewpoints exist. “conservative” and “liberal” are just political buzzwords. They get different meanings over time. Liberal has been a borderline cussword for a while. It’s why “conservatives” throw it around so much. Democrat doesn’t quite have the negative association. You don’t hear “the fucking Democrats” as much. It isn’t called the Democrat media.

None of that shit is relevant though. Again, two main parties exist. All shit like RINO, conservative, establishment Republican, liberal, progressive is shit designed to take your eye off the ball. The Republican brand in 08 was fucking garbage. It was trash. But we weren’t going to get rid of Republicans…so it was time for a little rebranding. We had tea party people who “really” felt one way, except they couldn’t be consistent on jack shit. For small government of course…except when it comes to the shit they don’t like (gay marriage, defense, abortion, weed). RINO came about as a way to distinguish them from the Bush era people.

All shit like RINO, establishment, liberal, progressive, etc is ways to avoid associating with other people. People up in arms of some Republican? Call him a RINO. Christie smiles near Obama? Establishment Republican. Not one of us. He was…but not anymore. We don’t accept that shit. But we have the same letter. So we gotta divide up.

Republicans aren’t special in this regard. If Democrats get their ass kicked in 2016, they will do the same type of shit. Political parties have to rebrand after their bullshit gets called out. Republicans knew they couldn’t oppose Obama on shit because he was just doing exactly what they had just done…so they said they weren’t that. The education shit they were for? Not anymore. The health care stuff they used to support? Nah, against it now.

104

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right, to remove Hussein from power, a man that killed his own people with chemical weapons. Why do you think we went into Iraq? Intelligence pointed to WMDs, what do you want to hear? They weren’t there, maybe they were before, but they weren’t found. You want me to apologize for it, I was in high school when the war started so…

I don’t beleive former Presdient Bush just wanted to invade for the hell of it, what did he have to gain? Sure we could have waited, like we did in WWI & WWII. Question is how many lives could we have saved had we not waited? Or, what if Hussein had had WMDs and had used them to kill thousands of his own people or ignite a war with Iran, what then?

It’s an outrage because she makes a considerable amount of money and is abusing a system, you don’t see that? I’d rather give those food stamps to a mentally ill person, a homeless guy, or an African child that eats once a week. Not some lady that make well above average income in America.

I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that a replacement for the the F/A-18 hornet and super hornet is a MUST if we are to maintain air superiority. The F-35 is the proposed replacement. You can argue about the cost, function, etc…but the FACT of the matter is the F/A-18 platform is in serious trouble. Like, can’t find parts, trouble. The airframes are being forced beyond safe flight hours.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY I AM FOR CLEANING UP DEFENSE SPENDING AND REDUCING IT AS WELL. Do you know why teh F-22 Raptor is so expensive, because comapnies like Lockhead Martin charge a fuck ton for them (not sure if the do the f-22’s might be Boeing). Point is CAPITALISM is why they cost so much, that and they are advanced pieces of machinery. It aint no model T.

You have gone complete off on an irrelevant tangent, have I called you or even that Lifty guy unpatrotic, no. Christ, relax. I don’t care if you want to spend less of the military. Don’t cry though if China decides they want Hawaii and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. You reap what you sow.

Unwanted pregnacy > than murder, imo. So ya got meI guess you’re right. Religious wackos don’t represent my views, I am fine with all forms of contraception, except with abortion as contreception.

No, I specifically said if the woman can’t afford the kid to take the child away. Are you messing with me? We shouldn’t reward her for giving birth by giving her food stamps that’s for sure. If she can’t afford the child I will happily step in, but not if it’s a cycle that will continue forever. Keep stretching my words though that’s cool. It’s not telling at all about you is it?

You are cracking me up, you make me out to be an asshole because I EXPECT both the mother and father of a child to pay for that child while you are for KILLING that child because it would be unwanted. The mom/dad may not want that baby, but I bet that baby sure as hell wants to live. You can get off your high horse with that nonsense.

Yes, fuck those kid., that’s exactly what I wrote. Give me a break. [/quote]

Saddam was a fuckhead and the world is a better place without him. All I’m wondering is why you aren’t sounding the alarm about getting the US in the tons of other places with fuckheads in them. You have been eerily silent on that which I think is inconsistency. Don’t be mad at me for pointing out the flaws in thinking it’s ok to keep other assholes in power but you say THIS was the reason for going in there.

So now the Iraq war is World War 1 and World War 2? As you’d say give me a fucking break. Iraq was nowhere near at their level of power since Desert Storm. They weren’t even remotely a threat. And the key point is HE DIDN’T FUCKING HAVE THEM. Jesus Christ. If you’re going to tell me we have to invade a fucking country because they have weapons of mass destruction and then they don’t have them you don’t think that’s kind of a big deal? WMD’s and we can’t wait were the sole reason for selling this war. Well we didn’t wait. Meanwhile trillions of dollars later you have people even supporting the thing wondering if it was worth it. You’ve got righties up in arms over some fucking food stamps, meanwhile an investment of TRILLIONS of dollars and American lives and Iraqi lives gets a “meh, maybe we did something good, maybe not. Not really sure yet.”

As for fuck those kids you specifically said pro birth doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. I’m not twisting anything. Of course the mom should do shit, but jesus christ how naive are you? What kind of uptopia society do you think exists? You think it’s going to start existing if you get rid of abortions? You think magically these people who already don’t give a fuck will start giving a fuck?

You REALLY need to go work in a public school. We have an absolute ass ton of kids in horrific situations because they never had a dad or they have a loser mom. That stuff isn’t new. It isn’t going away. Making sure those kids see the light of day is something that definitely concerns you. Not even saying it’s not a good concern. Help them once they get out? Well we don’t need to pay for the child after birth. After all once we force mom to have that baby (assuming she doesn’t back alley it (see Romania again) she will be a great mom! [/quote]

Jesus dude, seriously how many times do I need to say this. You are the one bring up other places in a thread about Iraq. I will gladly comment on otehr situtions, make the thread and we’ll go from there.

I never even mentioned others dick heads in power, ask me what I think, and I’ll answer.

Earily silent, THE THREAD IS CALLED IRAQ INVASION 10 YEARS AGO, not hey what do you think of every fucked up dictator on this planet.

It was a comparision you obviosuly didn’t get regarding WWI & II. I never compared them in scale on in us WAITING to get involved, which is what you suggested. Do you even read my posts or just pick little pieces out?

You’re right he didn’t have them. Okay, there was no way for us to know that. The intellgence community said they were there. Sometimes in life you are wrong.

Again, you are bringing up partied, I thought you didn’t care about parties?

You obviosuly either can’t read or you are so stuck on your view you can’t read clearly. What is your solution, suck babies out of their mothers womb? Sorry I dont’ agree with that.

I guess it’s my fault dads a dead beat and moms a crack head. Take the kids, put them in foster home, make mom and dad pay for it. If that doens’t work well FUCK DUDE I don’t have all the answers.

Again twisting words, I;m not FORCING her to do shit, she did it to herself ALL ON HER OWN. Again take the kid and put him in a foster home, make her & the dad pay for it.
[/quote]

I really don’t think I’m twisting anything. I’ve got three things you seem to not want to touch:

  1. If oppression is bad and a worthwhile reason to go into places (as you say is the reason for going into Iraq) then why do I not see threads from you talking about all the other places we should be invading? (I can say nation building if you prefer…how about peacefully entering with bombs?) Yeah the thread is about the Iraq War, but you have a unique perspective where you say oppression is a reason for going here, but when I ask about other places you say “dude we’re talking about Iraq!” Which is an interesting excuse considering you want to talk about World War 2 or 1 as well, but it’s not ok for me to ask questions of other places.

  2. You keep saying intelligence was wrong like it was a slam dunk the entire world thought they were there. No, the people who WANTED them to be there really thought they were there. Why don’t you just google iraq war intelligence lies or something along those lines. I’m not going to throw up a bunch of links that won’t get read. And it’s not JUST that WMD’s were not found it was the haste of going over there before knowing that WASN’T necessary. Again, you had a government who really wanted to go over there for god knows whatever reasons. Oil, he was a dick, whatever. Iraq was NOT an immediate U.S. security threat, nowhere near one, and the reasons for thinking it might be did not exist. You casually toss around trillions and numerous dead people as “eh, you win some you lose some. Guess we got that call wrong.”

  3. Why would it be your fault? You specifically said it’s not on you to pay for those kids. Again you’re living in a weird world of problems that don’t actually exist. It isn’t like America has a giant problem of really rich people with lots of kids and they just don’t feel like paying for it. You want mom and dad to pay for the foster home? Shit, most of the time dad doesn’t exist and mom not being able to pay for shit is the reason FOR the foster home. Make the people who have no money pay for the situation they created is hardly a solution. This idea that every shitty situation in America is because mom’s a lazy drug addict just isn’t based in any sort of reality. And people who can pay and have the money to pay aren’t getting kids put in foster homes on the regular.

[/quote]

  1. Oppression is bad, like I’ve already said multiple time, we should do everything we can to help the people being oppressed. I don’t start threads in pwi often and I’m not required to in order for my point to be heard. I haven’t commented on other example because this is a thread about Iraq. For the 5th or so time, if you would like to discuss what we should do in another scenario, go ahead and start a thread. No one is stopping.

I honestly don’t understand how you aren’t getting what I’m saying.

  1. Hind sight is 20/20. Maybe former President Bush & his advisers were just dying to finish what dad started and Clinton didn’t have the balls to finish. I seriously doubt that. Just like I don’t Obama is a socialist hell bent on destroying American, I don’t think Bush had any other intention then to stop a MAD MAN from using WMDs that thought were there. If the intel was wrong or they only saw what they wanted then shame on them, but I’m not privy to that information, I wasn’t in those meeting, and I was a part of the inspection crew in Iraq.

Again I’ll ask, if Saddam had had WMDs and he had killed 100K before we acted what then? Sometime, unlike on the internet, you have to make a decision with the information you have. You can’t always just wait.

I believe going to Iraq had more to do with stability in the region than U.S. security. How many other countries backed the U.S. led coalition? I guess they were all just greedy capitalist wanting oil right? How much is oil per gallon these days?

  1. This is where you are twisting my words, whether it’s deliberate or not. I believe in personal responsibility. I do not believe in simply absolving folks of that responsibility simply because it’s convenient. There is always a father and ever effort should be used to find him. He and the mother should pay for that child’s life. If they are unfit to raise the child the child should be put in a foster home and the parents wages should be garnished. If they still can’t pay throw them in jail for all I care. Have them make license plates to feed their kid. If all that is still not enough then I will GLADLY pay for that child through taxes and donations. Because, like the kids in Iraq, they should be afforded the opportunity at life. Not sucked out of their moms womb via a vacuum cleaner, your solution. Is my stance clear now?

For you Cliff Notes:

  1. Oppression bad
  2. I am for helping those being oppressed
  3. Military is not only option
  4. I would put boots on the ground in Syria, Egypt, Iran, North Korea, etc… IF NEED BE.
  5. Hindsight is 20/20, intel said WMDs, can’t always wait in life to make decisions. You do what you can with you can.
  6. Easy to criticize 10 years later with ALL the facts a keyboard away. Bush didn’t have this option.
  7. Abortion = bad
  8. Dead beat parents = bad
    9.Never said it was the moms fault, but the parents RESPONSIBILITY.
  9. Situation sucks, I offered the best solution I can come up with that doesn’t involve a vacuum cleaner, what is yours?

[/quote]

I’m over this. You don’t want to be intellectually honest. And apparently somehow you have the idea that I’m for babies being sucked out with vacuum cleaners. Can you share that post with me? All I tried to do was point out the vast amount of inconsistencies I thought you had. I still think you have those, but I don’t really care to continue to point them out. It’s circular at this point and we have both said enough.

FWIW, no one ever disagrees on whos responsibility the baby is, merely on the fact of what should happen afterwards. And those people who are fat slobs having a dozen kids? I live near a lot of them. And guess what they are all voting Republican and have all their lives. Party of personal responsibility my ass.

FWIW Democrats aren’t any better…but I know many of those “takers” sitting on the government dole having kids left and right at young ages. I live in a impoverished county in Kansas. Have lived in Kansas my whole life. And they didn’t vote for Obama. And it doesn’t matter who the R’s run in 2016, they got this vote in the bag.

105

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Right, to remove Hussein from power, a man that killed his own people with chemical weapons. Why do you think we went into Iraq? Intelligence pointed to WMDs, what do you want to hear? They weren’t there, maybe they were before, but they weren’t found. You want me to apologize for it, I was in high school when the war started so…

I don’t beleive former Presdient Bush just wanted to invade for the hell of it, what did he have to gain? Sure we could have waited, like we did in WWI & WWII. Question is how many lives could we have saved had we not waited? Or, what if Hussein had had WMDs and had used them to kill thousands of his own people or ignite a war with Iran, what then?

It’s an outrage because she makes a considerable amount of money and is abusing a system, you don’t see that? I’d rather give those food stamps to a mentally ill person, a homeless guy, or an African child that eats once a week. Not some lady that make well above average income in America.

I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that a replacement for the the F/A-18 hornet and super hornet is a MUST if we are to maintain air superiority. The F-35 is the proposed replacement. You can argue about the cost, function, etc…but the FACT of the matter is the F/A-18 platform is in serious trouble. Like, can’t find parts, trouble. The airframes are being forced beyond safe flight hours.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY I AM FOR CLEANING UP DEFENSE SPENDING AND REDUCING IT AS WELL. Do you know why teh F-22 Raptor is so expensive, because comapnies like Lockhead Martin charge a fuck ton for them (not sure if the do the f-22’s might be Boeing). Point is CAPITALISM is why they cost so much, that and they are advanced pieces of machinery. It aint no model T.

You have gone complete off on an irrelevant tangent, have I called you or even that Lifty guy unpatrotic, no. Christ, relax. I don’t care if you want to spend less of the military. Don’t cry though if China decides they want Hawaii and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. You reap what you sow.

Unwanted pregnacy > than murder, imo. So ya got meI guess you’re right. Religious wackos don’t represent my views, I am fine with all forms of contraception, except with abortion as contreception.

No, I specifically said if the woman can’t afford the kid to take the child away. Are you messing with me? We shouldn’t reward her for giving birth by giving her food stamps that’s for sure. If she can’t afford the child I will happily step in, but not if it’s a cycle that will continue forever. Keep stretching my words though that’s cool. It’s not telling at all about you is it?

You are cracking me up, you make me out to be an asshole because I EXPECT both the mother and father of a child to pay for that child while you are for KILLING that child because it would be unwanted. The mom/dad may not want that baby, but I bet that baby sure as hell wants to live. You can get off your high horse with that nonsense.

Yes, fuck those kid., that’s exactly what I wrote. Give me a break. [/quote]

Saddam was a fuckhead and the world is a better place without him. All I’m wondering is why you aren’t sounding the alarm about getting the US in the tons of other places with fuckheads in them. You have been eerily silent on that which I think is inconsistency. Don’t be mad at me for pointing out the flaws in thinking it’s ok to keep other assholes in power but you say THIS was the reason for going in there.

So now the Iraq war is World War 1 and World War 2? As you’d say give me a fucking break. Iraq was nowhere near at their level of power since Desert Storm. They weren’t even remotely a threat. And the key point is HE DIDN’T FUCKING HAVE THEM. Jesus Christ. If you’re going to tell me we have to invade a fucking country because they have weapons of mass destruction and then they don’t have them you don’t think that’s kind of a big deal? WMD’s and we can’t wait were the sole reason for selling this war. Well we didn’t wait. Meanwhile trillions of dollars later you have people even supporting the thing wondering if it was worth it. You’ve got righties up in arms over some fucking food stamps, meanwhile an investment of TRILLIONS of dollars and American lives and Iraqi lives gets a “meh, maybe we did something good, maybe not. Not really sure yet.”

As for fuck those kids you specifically said pro birth doesn’t mean we also need to pay for the child after birth. I’m not twisting anything. Of course the mom should do shit, but jesus christ how naive are you? What kind of uptopia society do you think exists? You think it’s going to start existing if you get rid of abortions? You think magically these people who already don’t give a fuck will start giving a fuck?

You REALLY need to go work in a public school. We have an absolute ass ton of kids in horrific situations because they never had a dad or they have a loser mom. That stuff isn’t new. It isn’t going away. Making sure those kids see the light of day is something that definitely concerns you. Not even saying it’s not a good concern. Help them once they get out? Well we don’t need to pay for the child after birth. After all once we force mom to have that baby (assuming she doesn’t back alley it (see Romania again) she will be a great mom! [/quote]

Jesus dude, seriously how many times do I need to say this. You are the one bring up other places in a thread about Iraq. I will gladly comment on otehr situtions, make the thread and we’ll go from there.

I never even mentioned others dick heads in power, ask me what I think, and I’ll answer.

Earily silent, THE THREAD IS CALLED IRAQ INVASION 10 YEARS AGO, not hey what do you think of every fucked up dictator on this planet.

It was a comparision you obviosuly didn’t get regarding WWI & II. I never compared them in scale on in us WAITING to get involved, which is what you suggested. Do you even read my posts or just pick little pieces out?

You’re right he didn’t have them. Okay, there was no way for us to know that. The intellgence community said they were there. Sometimes in life you are wrong.

Again, you are bringing up partied, I thought you didn’t care about parties?

You obviosuly either can’t read or you are so stuck on your view you can’t read clearly. What is your solution, suck babies out of their mothers womb? Sorry I dont’ agree with that.

I guess it’s my fault dads a dead beat and moms a crack head. Take the kids, put them in foster home, make mom and dad pay for it. If that doens’t work well FUCK DUDE I don’t have all the answers.

Again twisting words, I;m not FORCING her to do shit, she did it to herself ALL ON HER OWN. Again take the kid and put him in a foster home, make her & the dad pay for it.
[/quote]

I really don’t think I’m twisting anything. I’ve got three things you seem to not want to touch:

  1. If oppression is bad and a worthwhile reason to go into places (as you say is the reason for going into Iraq) then why do I not see threads from you talking about all the other places we should be invading? (I can say nation building if you prefer…how about peacefully entering with bombs?) Yeah the thread is about the Iraq War, but you have a unique perspective where you say oppression is a reason for going here, but when I ask about other places you say “dude we’re talking about Iraq!” Which is an interesting excuse considering you want to talk about World War 2 or 1 as well, but it’s not ok for me to ask questions of other places.

  2. You keep saying intelligence was wrong like it was a slam dunk the entire world thought they were there. No, the people who WANTED them to be there really thought they were there. Why don’t you just google iraq war intelligence lies or something along those lines. I’m not going to throw up a bunch of links that won’t get read. And it’s not JUST that WMD’s were not found it was the haste of going over there before knowing that WASN’T necessary. Again, you had a government who really wanted to go over there for god knows whatever reasons. Oil, he was a dick, whatever. Iraq was NOT an immediate U.S. security threat, nowhere near one, and the reasons for thinking it might be did not exist. You casually toss around trillions and numerous dead people as “eh, you win some you lose some. Guess we got that call wrong.”

  3. Why would it be your fault? You specifically said it’s not on you to pay for those kids. Again you’re living in a weird world of problems that don’t actually exist. It isn’t like America has a giant problem of really rich people with lots of kids and they just don’t feel like paying for it. You want mom and dad to pay for the foster home? Shit, most of the time dad doesn’t exist and mom not being able to pay for shit is the reason FOR the foster home. Make the people who have no money pay for the situation they created is hardly a solution. This idea that every shitty situation in America is because mom’s a lazy drug addict just isn’t based in any sort of reality. And people who can pay and have the money to pay aren’t getting kids put in foster homes on the regular.

[/quote]

  1. Oppression is bad, like I’ve already said multiple time, we should do everything we can to help the people being oppressed. I don’t start threads in pwi often and I’m not required to in order for my point to be heard. I haven’t commented on other example because this is a thread about Iraq. For the 5th or so time, if you would like to discuss what we should do in another scenario, go ahead and start a thread. No one is stopping.

I honestly don’t understand how you aren’t getting what I’m saying.

  1. Hind sight is 20/20. Maybe former President Bush & his advisers were just dying to finish what dad started and Clinton didn’t have the balls to finish. I seriously doubt that. Just like I don’t Obama is a socialist hell bent on destroying American, I don’t think Bush had any other intention then to stop a MAD MAN from using WMDs that thought were there. If the intel was wrong or they only saw what they wanted then shame on them, but I’m not privy to that information, I wasn’t in those meeting, and I was a part of the inspection crew in Iraq.

Again I’ll ask, if Saddam had had WMDs and he had killed 100K before we acted what then? Sometime, unlike on the internet, you have to make a decision with the information you have. You can’t always just wait.

I believe going to Iraq had more to do with stability in the region than U.S. security. How many other countries backed the U.S. led coalition? I guess they were all just greedy capitalist wanting oil right? How much is oil per gallon these days?

  1. This is where you are twisting my words, whether it’s deliberate or not. I believe in personal responsibility. I do not believe in simply absolving folks of that responsibility simply because it’s convenient. There is always a father and ever effort should be used to find him. He and the mother should pay for that child’s life. If they are unfit to raise the child the child should be put in a foster home and the parents wages should be garnished. If they still can’t pay throw them in jail for all I care. Have them make license plates to feed their kid. If all that is still not enough then I will GLADLY pay for that child through taxes and donations. Because, like the kids in Iraq, they should be afforded the opportunity at life. Not sucked out of their moms womb via a vacuum cleaner, your solution. Is my stance clear now?

For you Cliff Notes:

  1. Oppression bad
  2. I am for helping those being oppressed
  3. Military is not only option
  4. I would put boots on the ground in Syria, Egypt, Iran, North Korea, etc… IF NEED BE.
  5. Hindsight is 20/20, intel said WMDs, can’t always wait in life to make decisions. You do what you can with you can.
  6. Easy to criticize 10 years later with ALL the facts a keyboard away. Bush didn’t have this option.
  7. Abortion = bad
  8. Dead beat parents = bad
    9.Never said it was the moms fault, but the parents RESPONSIBILITY.
  9. Situation sucks, I offered the best solution I can come up with that doesn’t involve a vacuum cleaner, what is yours?

[/quote]

I’m over this. You don’t want to be intellectually honest. And apparently somehow you have the idea that I’m for babies being sucked out with vacuum cleaners. Can you share that post with me? All I tried to do was point out the vast amount of inconsistencies I thought you had. I still think you have those, but I don’t really care to continue to point them out. It’s circular at this point and we have both said enough.

FWIW, no one ever disagrees on whos responsibility the baby is, merely on the fact of what should happen afterwards. And those people who are fat slobs having a dozen kids? I live near a lot of them. And guess what they are all voting Republican and have all their lives. Party of personal responsibility my ass.

FWIW Democrats aren’t any better…but I know many of those “takers” sitting on the government dole having kids left and right at young ages. I live in a impoverished county in Kansas. Have lived in Kansas my whole life. And they didn’t vote for Obama. And it doesn’t matter who the R’s run in 2016, they got this vote in the bag. [/quote]

Wow just wow…you are easily the worst poater I have come across. I will never waste my time with you again. Just wow, I:d rather argue with Pitt about taxes.

106

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
Many of those speakers at the CPAC were Republican party members. How many were conservative party members? [/quote]

I would say there were a couple of good conservatives, and a couple establishment DBags, and a couple that are headed towards becoming establishment.

The point of my post was basically saying a true conservative wouldn’t feel like he described, but what he described was true of many people that would lable themselves as a conservative. And a vast majority of those people in the second group are republican.

I’m not saying anything he said was wrong.

No way man. It works the other way too.

Not every liberal is a progressive.

Supporting a party or a certain person in a party during an election is a seperate matter really.

You have two choices in a general election

  1. vote one of the two parties
  2. vote 3rd party

Just because someone chooses 1, doesn’t make them a liberal, conservative, progressive, democrat or whatever. It just means they figured their vote was best placed in one person’s favor.

[quote] Really hope a third party comes out of it, but highly doubtful. Just too much legwork.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the fighting, but for now it’s funny to watch both sides be what helps them out most. [/quote]

I don’t have time to go into this as much as it deserves.
[/quote]

Two main parties exist, Republicans and Democrats. Yes within those two parties a lot of different viewpoints exist. “conservative” and “liberal” are just political buzzwords. They get different meanings over time. Liberal has been a borderline cussword for a while. It’s why “conservatives” throw it around so much. Democrat doesn’t quite have the negative association. You don’t hear “the fucking Democrats” as much. It isn’t called the Democrat media.

None of that shit is relevant though. Again, two main parties exist. All shit like RINO, conservative, establishment Republican, liberal, progressive is shit designed to take your eye off the ball. The Republican brand in 08 was fucking garbage. It was trash. But we weren’t going to get rid of Republicans…so it was time for a little rebranding. We had tea party people who “really” felt one way, except they couldn’t be consistent on jack shit. For small government of course…except when it comes to the shit they don’t like (gay marriage, defense, abortion, weed). RINO came about as a way to distinguish them from the Bush era people.

All shit like RINO, establishment, liberal, progressive, etc is ways to avoid associating with other people. People up in arms of some Republican? Call him a RINO. Christie smiles near Obama? Establishment Republican. Not one of us. He was…but not anymore. We don’t accept that shit. But we have the same letter. So we gotta divide up.

Republicans aren’t special in this regard. If Democrats get their ass kicked in 2016, they will do the same type of shit. Political parties have to rebrand after their bullshit gets called out. Republicans knew they couldn’t oppose Obama on shit because he was just doing exactly what they had just done…so they said they weren’t that. The education shit they were for? Not anymore. The health care stuff they used to support? Nah, against it now.
[/quote]

I agree with parts of this, other parts I feel like you are too general, and others flat out missing the point, but I really don’t have time to chop it up and address each one.

Plus this isn’t the thread.

107

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Wow just wow…you are easily the worst poater I have come across. I will never waste my time with you again. Just wow, I:d rather argue with Pitt about taxes.[/quote]

Oh no, worst poster you’ve come across. Keep up the inconsistencies then. I won’t bother you by pointing out how full of shit you are. I’ll just keep a lookout for all your threads about us taking out other dictators and dickheads.

Oh yeah, we aren’t talking about that right :slight_smile:

108

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
This is an oler piece, but makes some good points:

http://www.cfr.org/iraq/iraq-war-worth-/p26820

"Critics will claim that no gains could be worth the price we paid – over 4,400 lost lives and untold hundreds of billions of dollars. But we paid a far higher price in the Korean War (36,000 dead). Few would have thought in 1953 that this war, which ended with a deadlocked and ravaged peninsula, was a raging success. The outcome looks considerably better nearly six decades later, now that South Korea has become one of the most prosperous and freest countries in the world.

It is wildly premature to claim that Iraq could become another South Korea – although the latter started off far poorer than the former and had just as little experience with democracy (which is to say none). Yet it is not out of the realm of possibility."

[/quote]
Did Max Boot, the person who is quoted, lose any family members in Iraq? Did HE join up and fight? There are two prices: the price “we” paid, as Boot mentions, and the price that those who lost their lives, health, sanity, paid as well as what their families paid.

It’s pretty revolting for him to talk about the lives that were lost and what they were worth and following it with “the realm of possibility.” Intellectuals can gamble with lives because to them they are just numbers. 4,400 lives is not much to gamble on something that is “not out of the realm of possibility” from where he sits.

109

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

The U.S. government doesn’t care if you leave. [/quote]

That is because government is incapable of caring for anything or anyone.

They just want our money and our lives to do its bidding.

(If you are not in the military why do you use USMC CDS designation? Did you see one too many military movies as a lad and now wish you could wear a dashing costume, too?)[/quote]

I don’t know what happened to you for you to be so cynical you think we are slaves to this government, I truly feel sorry for you. There are certainly a lot of issues with our government, but if you really think we have it that bad (read are slaves to her), you are mistaken. There are people in this world that are ACTUALLY SLAVES to their government. There are also people whose government MURDERS them for no reason what so ever. There are people STARVED by their governments who can’t get clean water while their rulers have wealth unfathomable to their oppressed people.

And here you are, complaining about ahving to pay taxes, while enjoying the spoils of freedom this country, our military, provide. Get a grip dude.

I am a former Marine, has nothing to do with movies. It is amazing how disrepectful you are to those that provide your freedom. It’s not a costume. My uniform represents far more than you’ll ever understand.

This will all fall on blind eyes, though, because you’ve got it so bad having to pay taxes. The tyranny. What a joke.
[/quote]

the dude’s not American. He’s a young Brit Troll.

If so, in what city do you live young Troll? Just another jealousy one…

too easy too spot

110

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Wow just wow…you are easily the worst poater I have come across. I will never waste my time with you again. Just wow, I:d rather argue with Pitt about taxes.[/quote]

Oh no, worst poster you’ve come across. Keep up the inconsistencies then. I won’t bother you by pointing out how full of shit you are. I’ll just keep a lookout for all your threads about us taking out other dictators and dickheads.

Oh yeah, we aren’t talking about that right :)[/quote]

Lol…Point it out, by all means please.

111

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

The U.S. government doesn’t care if you leave. [/quote]

That is because government is incapable of caring for anything or anyone.

They just want our money and our lives to do its bidding.

(If you are not in the military why do you use USMC CDS designation? Did you see one too many military movies as a lad and now wish you could wear a dashing costume, too?)[/quote]

I don’t know what happened to you for you to be so cynical you think we are slaves to this government, I truly feel sorry for you. There are certainly a lot of issues with our government, but if you really think we have it that bad (read are slaves to her), you are mistaken. There are people in this world that are ACTUALLY SLAVES to their government. There are also people whose government MURDERS them for no reason what so ever. There are people STARVED by their governments who can’t get clean water while their rulers have wealth unfathomable to their oppressed people.

And here you are, complaining about ahving to pay taxes, while enjoying the spoils of freedom this country, our military, provide. Get a grip dude.

I am a former Marine, has nothing to do with movies. It is amazing how disrepectful you are to those that provide your freedom. It’s not a costume. My uniform represents far more than you’ll ever understand.

This will all fall on blind eyes, though, because you’ve got it so bad having to pay taxes. The tyranny. What a joke.
[/quote]

the dude’s not American. He’s a young Brit Troll.

If so, in what city do you live young Troll? Just another jealousy one…

too easy too spot[/quote]

Calling people trolls that you don’t have the intelligence to debate with is not a good strategy for advancing arguments.

112

Lol…he acutually uses the term “enjoying the spoils of freedom”.

Yeah, I feel so free while I stand in line to pay for a license to install a sprinkler system in my own yard: while children’s parents in my neighborhood are fined because their children want to make some money selling lemonade; while I am taxed to bailout bankers and at the same time told I cannot enjoy certain herbal refreshments, while I am told on Sunday I cannot buy a car or alcohol, while I am not allowed to…I can go on and on.

I am so fucking free.

Please, tell me where I can get on the ground and prostrate myself to all heroes that give me this FREEDOM.

You flag waving morons.

113

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lol…he acutually uses the term “enjoying the spoils of freedom”.

Yeah, I feel so free while I stand in line to pay for a license to install a sprinkler system in my own yard: while children’s parents in my neighborhood are fined because their children want to make some money selling lemonade; while I am taxed to bailout bankers and at the same time told I cannot enjoy certain herbal refreshments, while I am told on Sunday I cannot buy a car or alcohol, while I am not allowed to…I can go on and on.

I am so fucking free.

Please, tell me where I can get on the ground and prostrate myself to all heroes that give me this FREEDOM.

You flag waving morons.[/quote]

Where do you live? I can buy a car and alcohol any day of the week.

You can’t install a sprinkler system? Shouldn’t have bought a house with an HOA, that’s your fault. I can build whatever I want on my property.

You can’t smoke pot, oh man fuck America everybody!!

You’re mad about the bank bailout, that’s actually a legitimate thing to be angry about, but you don’t vote right? So how are you voicing your dissatisfaction, through T-Nation? Do you use a bank? I hope not, cause that would be a bit hypocritical don’t you think?

Did you real bring up the lemonade stand incident that for some reason made national headline what a year ago? I’ll agree the morons in this case should lose their jobs, but it’s hardly a reason to overthrow the “empire”.

All of these things have NOTHING to do with what the military does, you can thank YOUR representatives for this, oh wait you don’t vote, so I guess you can thank you silence for your woes

Edit: I also find it pretty hilarious, LIFTICVSMAXIMVS, that you don’t even address me. Instead it’s, he said this/he said that, that’s aweful cowardly on your part.

114

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lol…he acutually uses the term “enjoying the spoils of freedom”.

[/quote]

What’s funny about this?

115

Kenya: School Girl Killed By Crocodile in Kiambere

http://allafrica.com/stories/201301081268.html

“A 12-year-old girl was killed by a crocodile on Sunday died on Sundayat Kiambere hydro-electricity power dam while fetching water.”

Afghan Girl Killed For Rejecting A Marriage Proposal

“A 15-year-old girl was brutally murdered in Afghanistan after her father rejected the man that wanted to marry her!”

Thousands massacred as two tribes go to war in South Sudan

“Hundreds of children are missing and entire villages are said to have been burnt as a huge raiding party from the Lou Nuer tribe swept through a remote area in the east of the country, attacking their neighbours, the Murle people.”

-Do things like this happen to people “in your neighborhood” Lifty? You think you’ve been slighted by the “evil empire” when your very presence on this board just goes to show how much you enjoy the spoils of freedom provided by the U.S. military.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a flag to wave.

116

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lol…he acutually uses the term “enjoying the spoils of freedom”.

Yeah, I feel so free while I stand in line to pay for a license to install a sprinkler system in my own yard: while children’s parents in my neighborhood are fined because their children want to make some money selling lemonade; while I am taxed to bailout bankers and at the same time told I cannot enjoy certain herbal refreshments, while I am told on Sunday I cannot buy a car or alcohol, while I am not allowed to…I can go on and on.

I am so fucking free.

Please, tell me where I can get on the ground and prostrate myself to all heroes that give me this FREEDOM.

You flag waving morons.[/quote]

Where do you live? I can buy a car and alcohol any day of the week.

You can’t install a sprinkler system? Shouldn’t have bought a house with an HOA, that’s your fault. I can build whatever I want on my property.

You can’t smoke pot, oh man fuck America everybody!!

You’re mad about the bank bailout, that’s actually a legitimate thing to be angry about, but you don’t vote right? So how are you voicing your dissatisfaction, through T-Nation? Do you use a bank? I hope not, cause that would be a bit hypocritical don’t you think?

Did you real bring up the lemonade stand incident that for some reason made national headline what a year ago? I’ll agree the morons in this case should lose their jobs, but it’s hardly a reason to overthrow the “empire”.

All of these things have NOTHING to do with what the military does, you can thank YOUR representatives for this, oh wait you don’t vote, so I guess you can thank you silence for your woes

Edit: I also find it pretty hilarious, LIFTICVSMAXIMVS, that you don’t even address me. Instead it’s, he said this/he said that, that’s aweful cowardly on your part.
[/quote]

I don’t think you understand the term freedom.

Where ever government exists freedom, by definition, cannot.

Government governs. Freedom is the opposite of that. Government guaranteed freedom is an oxymoron.

Just because I don’t need permission to do pursue certain liberties does not make me free if I am prevented from doing some of them or if I have to ask permission.

Now, can you quit distracting from the conversation about the US government’s war crimes against humanity, please?

117

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lol…he acutually uses the term “enjoying the spoils of freedom”.

Yeah, I feel so free while I stand in line to pay for a license to install a sprinkler system in my own yard: while children’s parents in my neighborhood are fined because their children want to make some money selling lemonade; while I am taxed to bailout bankers and at the same time told I cannot enjoy certain herbal refreshments, while I am told on Sunday I cannot buy a car or alcohol, while I am not allowed to…I can go on and on.

I am so fucking free.

Please, tell me where I can get on the ground and prostrate myself to all heroes that give me this FREEDOM.

You flag waving morons.[/quote]

Where do you live? I can buy a car and alcohol any day of the week.

You can’t install a sprinkler system? Shouldn’t have bought a house with an HOA, that’s your fault. I can build whatever I want on my property.

You can’t smoke pot, oh man fuck America everybody!!

You’re mad about the bank bailout, that’s actually a legitimate thing to be angry about, but you don’t vote right? So how are you voicing your dissatisfaction, through T-Nation? Do you use a bank? I hope not, cause that would be a bit hypocritical don’t you think?

Did you real bring up the lemonade stand incident that for some reason made national headline what a year ago? I’ll agree the morons in this case should lose their jobs, but it’s hardly a reason to overthrow the “empire”.

All of these things have NOTHING to do with what the military does, you can thank YOUR representatives for this, oh wait you don’t vote, so I guess you can thank you silence for your woes

Edit: I also find it pretty hilarious, LIFTICVSMAXIMVS, that you don’t even address me. Instead it’s, he said this/he said that, that’s aweful cowardly on your part.
[/quote]

I don’t think you understand the term freedom.

Where ever government exists freedom, by definition, cannot.

Government governs. Freedom is the opposite of that. Government guaranteed freedom is an oxymoron.

Just because I don’t need permission to do pursue certain liberties does not make me free if I am prevented from doing some of them or if I have to ask permission.

Now, can you quit distracting from the conversation about the US government’s war crimes against humanity, please?[/quote]

Bahahahaha LOL…I won’t interrupt anymore.

118

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lol…he acutually uses the term “enjoying the spoils of freedom”.

Yeah, I feel so free while I stand in line to pay for a license to install a sprinkler system in my own yard: while children’s parents in my neighborhood are fined because their children want to make some money selling lemonade; while I am taxed to bailout bankers and at the same time told I cannot enjoy certain herbal refreshments, while I am told on Sunday I cannot buy a car or alcohol, while I am not allowed to…I can go on and on.

I am so fucking free.

Please, tell me where I can get on the ground and prostrate myself to all heroes that give me this FREEDOM.

You flag waving morons.[/quote]

Where do you live? I can buy a car and alcohol any day of the week.

You can’t install a sprinkler system? Shouldn’t have bought a house with an HOA, that’s your fault. I can build whatever I want on my property.

You can’t smoke pot, oh man fuck America everybody!!

You’re mad about the bank bailout, that’s actually a legitimate thing to be angry about, but you don’t vote right? So how are you voicing your dissatisfaction, through T-Nation? Do you use a bank? I hope not, cause that would be a bit hypocritical don’t you think?

Did you real bring up the lemonade stand incident that for some reason made national headline what a year ago? I’ll agree the morons in this case should lose their jobs, but it’s hardly a reason to overthrow the “empire”.

All of these things have NOTHING to do with what the military does, you can thank YOUR representatives for this, oh wait you don’t vote, so I guess you can thank you silence for your woes

Edit: I also find it pretty hilarious, LIFTICVSMAXIMVS, that you don’t even address me. Instead it’s, he said this/he said that, that’s aweful cowardly on your part.
[/quote]

I don’t think you understand the term freedom.

Where ever government exists freedom, by definition, cannot.

Government governs. Freedom is the opposite of that. Government guaranteed freedom is an oxymoron.

Just because I don’t need permission to do pursue certain liberties does not make me free if I am prevented from doing some of them or if I have to ask permission.

Now, can you quit distracting from the conversation about the US government’s war crimes against humanity, please?[/quote]

Hahaha this is social and political philosophy 101 you dumb ape. I suggest you pick up a copy of Thomas Hobbes’ Leviathan, although I’m not sure if the meager intellect you have displayed thus far would be able to make much use of it. You possess ZERO understanding of the United States’ place within the international system, much less the incredibly immense economic, political, and social benefits that its primacy yields. Your naive and simple minded views are simply laughable when viewed through the prism of history.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
Some interesting things to consider in regards to the Iraq War:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/21/the-iraq-war-elected-obama/[/quote]

Push, This thread is for:

“US government’s war crimes against humanity” -LIFTICVSMAXIMVS

Please stay on topic.

Thanks