lixy wrote:
“Checkered? Last I checked, Iran was not going around invading nations.”
So, you must really hate China and Russia then.
“The only reason the US used nukes is because they knew that they were none others around.”
If the other countries had them first, no doubt they would have used them against us first.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
When a country with the 4th largest known oil reserves, and with a checkered history such as Iran has, announces that it now wants nuclear power for ‘peaceful’ purposes, I just have to laugh at that — and anyone gullible enough to believe such nonsense.[/quote]
Canada has the 2nd largest known oil reserves. We still need nuclear, hydro and other sources for power.
And correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Iran have to buy their oil on the open market because they can’t refine it on their own?
Instead of putting yet another human population through hell just so Lockheed Martin can please it’s shareholders, the West should give Iran nuclear reactors that can’t be used to weaponize nuclear material. If it’s really energy they need, everyone should be happy. If it’s not, well they’ll look like hypocrites if they find excuses for that solution.
Actually, nuclear power is not the solution. Uranium, like oil, is a finite resource and there’s not enough of it to supply the world’s growing energy needs.
Eventually, if it’s not fusion, it’ll be solar. (Which is fusion anyway…)
Maybe they could develop economically if we stopped sending them money and food. We bankrupt their farmers with our free food. And our money mostly goes to prop up the local dictatorships.
Let them help themselves.
[quote]mstott25 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
mstott25 wrote:
…It pisses me off to see people picking a fight with Iran like this is some varsity football game.
Your misunderstanding of the situation is staggering. Reread BH6’s post.
your ability to blindly follow the media is what staggers me. [/quote]
Blindly follow the media? Do you mean actually pay attention to what is happening instead of working from preconceived notions?
What do they require them to do?
That his been discussed many, many times. Try to pay attention.
[quote]
Our allies have displayed far more suspicious activity then the axis of evil yet all of a sudden we put the spotlight on Iran and we have plans in place to go to war. What the fuck is going on? This is not defending our country anymore - this is empire building. It’s fucking insane. [/quote]
When was the last time our allies mined the Straights of Hormuz? When was the last time they threatened to incinerate another country.
You are so blinded by your hatred you are willing to ignore and even deny the sins if the evil Iranian leadership in order to push your brand of politics.
I would normally feel sorry for you but you are both ignorant and obnoxious. A very bad combination.
[quote]pookie wrote:
…
And correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Iran have to buy their oil on the open market because they can’t refine it on their own?
…
[/quote]
That is correct. They cannot even refine their own oil yet they feel they need to build a breeder reactor to produce weapons grade plutonium rather than a normal commercial reactor to generate power.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Instead of putting yet another human population through hell just so Lockheed Martin can please it’s shareholders, the West should give Iran nuclear reactors that can’t be used to weaponize nuclear material. If it’s really energy they need, everyone should be happy. If it’s not, well they’ll look like hypocrites if they find excuses for that solution.
Let them help themselves.
[/quote]
I would be willing to bet that if the US or the West set about to do this, (give Iran reactors) Iran would refuse.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I would be willing to bet that if the US or the West set about to do this, (give Iran reactors) Iran would refuse.[/quote]
Has anyone thought about trying this approach?
If nothing else, it’d be rather revealing of Iran’s true intentions; although I can understand why they want the bomb. A nuclear Iran is an Iran that doesn’t have to worry about being bombed and invaded any more.
If no one is willing to give them a hand, and they set out to build their own reactor, then yes, they’ll build a reactor that can also be used to enrich uranium to weapon grade. It’s actually easier to make that type of reactor than the more modern, safer ones.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
You are so blinded by your hatred you are willing to ignore and even deny the sins if the evil Iranian leadership in order to push your brand of politics.
I would normally feel sorry for you but you are both ignorant and obnoxious. A very bad combination.[/quote]
Silly Zap, let’s try engaging in a decent conversation without jumping to conclusions, shall we?
It took us exactly one day to damage Iran’s Navy beyond anything Iraq could do to them in 8 years of war. I seriously doubt that anybody is laying awake at night scared that Iran is going to place more mines in the Straits of Hormuz. Is this really a reason to go to war?
As far as Ahmadinejad wanting to “incinerate another country” I guess you’re talking about his mistranslated remarks directed at the Zionist Regime (his words) in Israel? Maybe you’ll clarify that for me, either way - is this your reason for wanting to go to war with Iran?
Or tell me if it’s the possibility of Iran obtaining nuclear weapons - is that your reason for wanting to go to war? Didn’t we just go through all of this with Iraq?
You accuse me of having hatred but I’m confused about who you think I have hatred towards. You accuse me of denying the sins of Iran and I hardly see how that is even a valid statement. Is the US now covering the morality patrol shift for the world?
Zap the US could stay the fuck out of the middle east and everything will be just fine. If we just stayed out of everybody’s business and focused on domestic issues then we could probably quit spending money we don’t have and waging wars that don’t solve anything.
All of you doomsday prophets with your gloom and doom scenarios about this guy and the next guy are just following the media along and allowing yourselves to get scared and act irrationally. The greatest threat to our freedom is not a foreign nation - it is our own government officials.
Our government is not supposed to be waging wars all over the world - our government is supposed to act when the citizens demand action. The representatives are supposed to declare war not one man in the white house.
The citizens of this country have demanded that we get out of Iraq - they have demanded that we secure our borders - and we have an administration that thinks they can do whatever the fuck they want. If that doesn’t concern you, what will?
If the Mayor of New Orleans states that no citizen can be armed and the fucking government moves in and starts taking away the arms of US citizens and you’re not concerned, what will motivate you to confront this government? It’s not just foreign policy, it’s domestic policy, it’s economic policy, this government is out of control.
[quote]BigRagoo wrote:
Wouldn’t burning the nest make us more the “Great Satan” they label us?
[/quote]
it doesnt matter what they think if theyre all dead
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
So, you must really hate China and Russia then. [/quote]
Sure. But I’ll hate China even more if it went halfway across the globe to invade, say Kenya. Or Russia went to invade Venezuela.
I hope you get the idea.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
When was the last time they threatened to incinerate another country. [/quote]
Threaten? Sissy talk.
Real men go ahead and incinerate.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
So, you must really hate China and Russia then.
Sure. But I’ll hate China even more if it went halfway across the globe to invade, say Kenya. Or Russia went to invade Venezuela.
I hope you get the idea.[/quote]
No.
You obviously know nothing about the cold war. The Russians were all over Africa.
Israel did not go half way around the world to invade countries, yet you bitch about them a lot more than you bitch about Russia and China. Why is it more wrong when Israel and the US invade nations and less when it is Russia or China? Are they less imperialistic because they are alleged Communists?
You bitch about America’s intervention in Viet nam, (hense the picture), but did you know that in 1979 China also invaded Vietnam? They also invaded Tibet, North Korea and are now threatening Taiwan.
Or are they less wrong because their weapons are used to arm the enemies of the US? Must be nice when you can get guns and missiles for “free”.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
When was the last time they threatened to incinerate another country.
Threaten? Sissy talk.
Real men go ahead and incinerate.[/quote]
The only reason they have not incinerated is because they do not have the bomb yet. Possibly it will be easier to do once they actually have one.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
You bitch about America’s intervention in Viet nam, (hense the picture), but did you know that in 1979 China also invaded Vietnam? [/quote]
Are you comparing a decade long war that killed millions to a brief border war? The Sino-Viet war of 79 lasted a month.
If the US invades Canada or Mexico, it’s very very different from invading a country on the other side of the planet. When you stick to your sphere of influence, a “national security threat” casus belli is a lot more credible.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
You bitch about America’s intervention in Viet nam, (hense the picture), but did you know that in 1979 China also invaded Vietnam?
Are you comparing a decade long war that killed millions to a brief border war? The Sino-Viet war of 79 lasted a month.
If the US invades Canada or Mexico, it’s very very different from invading a country on the other side of the planet. When you stick to your sphere of influence, a “national security threat” casus belli is a lot more credible.[/quote]
The problem is that the U.S. has influence beyond our sphere even when our actions are minimal. Just because of our culture,economy, and what our country is supposed to stand for…we will always be an influence on the rest of the world whether it is embraced or hated…even if we didn’t give unconditional support to Israel,we would still have the same tensions we have now between the U.S. and certain Parties(not entire countries). Just my 2 cents.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Just because of our culture,economy, and what our country is supposed to stand for…we will always be an influence on the rest of the world whether it is embraced or hated…[/quote]
Don’t you think you’re pushing it a bit too much? I mean, the US is great and all, but “what your country stands for” is an overstatement. It’s all been done before, and I don’t see what traits you consider inherent to your country that Britain, the Netherlands, France or Italy don’t have.
Can’t argue with that.
[quote]lixy wrote:
If the US invades Canada or Mexico, it’s very very different from invading a country on the other side of the planet. When you stick to your sphere of influence, a “national security threat” casus belli is a lot more credible.[/quote]
So why should I care if Israel has the Gaza Strip or the Golan Heights or invaded Lebanon? If it’s in their sphere of influence, or is a threat of national security, I guess it is ok. Is that what you are saying?
[quote]mstott25 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
You are so blinded by your hatred you are willing to ignore and even deny the sins if the evil Iranian leadership in order to push your brand of politics.
I would normally feel sorry for you but you are both ignorant and obnoxious. A very bad combination.
Silly Zap, let’s try engaging in a decent conversation without jumping to conclusions, shall we?
It took us exactly one day to damage Iran’s Navy beyond anything Iraq could do to them in 8 years of war. I seriously doubt that anybody is laying awake at night scared that Iran is going to place more mines in the Straits of Hormuz. Is this really a reason to go to war?
As far as Ahmadinejad wanting to “incinerate another country” I guess you’re talking about his mistranslated remarks directed at the Zionist Regime (his words) in Israel? Maybe you’ll clarify that for me, either way - is this your reason for wanting to go to war with Iran?
Or tell me if it’s the possibility of Iran obtaining nuclear weapons - is that your reason for wanting to go to war? Didn’t we just go through all of this with Iraq?
You accuse me of having hatred but I’m confused about who you think I have hatred towards. You accuse me of denying the sins of Iran and I hardly see how that is even a valid statement. Is the US now covering the morality patrol shift for the world?
Zap the US could stay the fuck out of the middle east and everything will be just fine. If we just stayed out of everybody’s business and focused on domestic issues then we could probably quit spending money we don’t have and waging wars that don’t solve anything.
All of you doomsday prophets with your gloom and doom scenarios about this guy and the next guy are just following the media along and allowing yourselves to get scared and act irrationally. The greatest threat to our freedom is not a foreign nation - it is our own government officials.
Our government is not supposed to be waging wars all over the world - our government is supposed to act when the citizens demand action. The representatives are supposed to declare war not one man in the white house.
The citizens of this country have demanded that we get out of Iraq - they have demanded that we secure our borders - and we have an administration that thinks they can do whatever the fuck they want. If that doesn’t concern you, what will?
If the Mayor of New Orleans states that no citizen can be armed and the fucking government moves in and starts taking away the arms of US citizens and you’re not concerned, what will motivate you to confront this government? It’s not just foreign policy, it’s domestic policy, it’s economic policy, this government is out of control.
[/quote]
You are rambling.
If we stayed out of the middle east it would take about one day for Iran to mine and the Straights of Hormuz again and demand tribute from every ship.
That is only one of many, many bad tings that would happen that would disrupt the world.
Not really sure what the idiot mayor of NO has to do with that.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
You bitch about America’s intervention in Viet nam, (hense the picture), but did you know that in 1979 China also invaded Vietnam?
Are you comparing a decade long war that killed millions to a brief border war? The Sino-Viet war of 79 lasted a month.
If the US invades Canada or Mexico, it’s very very different from invading a country on the other side of the planet. When you stick to your sphere of influence, a “national security threat” casus belli is a lot more credible.[/quote]
And how long were the Soviets and their Cuban stooges invovled in fucking up Africa?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
So why should I care if Israel has the Gaza Strip or the Golan Heights or invaded Lebanon? If it’s in their sphere of influence, or is a threat of national security, I guess it is ok. Is that what you are saying?[/quote]
Don’t twist my words. You know exactly what I meant.
That Israel occupied Gaza or the Golan heights is not OK. At least, not anymore than China occupying Tibet or Turkey invading Iraq. But it still makes a we’re-defending-our-national-security casus belli plausible. Now, if Israel went and invaded Argentina claiming that gauchos represent a threat to the sovereignty of the Zionist state, then anyone with a shred of common sense will see that it’s pure aggression.
We had the same scenario when the world’s population (minus the UK) was overwhelmingly opposed to invasion of Iraq. The argument didn’t fly no matter how you try to turn it.
In my book, violence is OK only if you’re in immediate danger. And chances of a country on the other side of the globe to represent a threat to you are pretty freakin slim. Imagine if Switzerland went to invade the Philippines on the pretext that it was “national security” matter. Would you not laugh at the absurdity of the situation? Now compare with Switzerland suddenly deciding that Italy was a threat to them. The difference is clear.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
You are rambling.
If we stayed out of the middle east it would take about one day for Iran to mine and the Straights of Hormuz again and demand tribute from every ship.
That is only one of many, many bad tings that would happen that would disrupt the world.
Not really sure what the idiot mayor of NO has to do with that.[/quote]
Zap - we cleared the mines out of the straits of Hormuz with some navy divers the last time - I’m sure we could do the same thing again. Then again we won’t need to if we could just learn to leave sovereign nations alone.
Now if Iran declares war on the U.S. (which is never going to happen) then you have a valid reason for going to war. But as far as your hypothetical list of doomsday scenarios - none of those reasons are in the least bit compelling.