Iran Threatening Europe over Israel

Sloth · October 25, 2006, 9:16pm

[quote]100meters wrote:

That the Supreme Leader hasn’t removed an elected official (the president) is ALSO totally besides the point and a hilarious position to take anyway (not very democratic of sloth). [/quote]

That statement right there is a perfect example of your posturing. You’ve made it a point to talk down to myself and others, as if we are vastly inferior in our knowledge. Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran.

There is nothing democratic about the presidential election. The canidates are strained through the religious Council of Guardians (12 members). Six of the CoG are appointed directly by the Supreme Leader. The other six are lawyers selected by the Supreme Leader. The 2005 elections saw the Council of Guardians allow 7 of more than a thousand + initial canidates to run.

Basically, you’re choosing Ayatollah’s canidate 1, Ayatoallah’s canidate 2, etc. I don’t see much there I could be “non-democratic” over.

Nominal_Prospect · October 25, 2006, 9:28pm

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Are do you really, really, believe the Ayatollah has become this wonderful peacloving man?[/quote]

Why is it that I keep seeing all this talk and speculation about ethics and morality in foreign policy affairs?

These things have absolutely no place in politics. Politics is amoral. Politics concerns itself entirely with the dynamics of power.

There’s no need to speculate about the individual sanity or ethical code of any world leader. That’s just foolish. Moreover, it leads to dead-end arguments, since nobody can prove or disprove what’s going on in somebody else’s head.

All you need to do to assess the situation is apply the universal principles of power and human nature.

Leave your ethics and morality for the playpen. This is serious business. Nobody acts ethically on the world stage, unless it’s in their best interest to do so.

Applying what I just wrote to the current topic, it doesn’t matter what Iran’s leaders have said in the past about wiping Israel off the map. The only thing that matters is the law of self-preservation and Iran’s place in the regional power hierarchy relative to Israel. At the moment, it is inferior. The acquisition of nuclear weapons by Tehran may well even the playing field, but would not go so far as to give it the dominant position. Therefore, both sides would stand to lose equally from a military conflict, and thus, both would have equal incentive to avoid one.

Peace occurs when the playing field is level. Not because of the compassion, morality or ethics of the fucks who hold power. They haven’t got any.

100meters · October 26, 2006, 1:01am

[quote]Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:

That the Supreme Leader hasn’t removed an elected official (the president) is ALSO totally besides the point and a hilarious position to take anyway (not very democratic of sloth).

That statement right there is a perfect example of your posturing. You’ve made it a point to talk down to myself and others, as if we are vastly inferior in our knowledge. Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran.

There is nothing democratic about the presidential election. The canidates are strained through the religious Council of Guardians (12 members). Six of the CoG are appointed directly by the Supreme Leader. The other six are lawyers selected by the Supreme Leader. The 2005 elections saw the Council of Guardians allow 7 of more than a thousand + initial canidates to run.

Basically, you’re choosing Ayatollah’s canidate 1, Ayatoallah’s canidate 2, etc. I don’t see much there I could be “non-democratic” over.[/quote]

Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Sloth · October 26, 2006, 2:10am

[quote]100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

[/quote]

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…

Zap_Branigan · October 26, 2006, 11:44am

[quote]Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…[/quote]

I don’t even know why I bother with 100meters. He pretends true democracy exists in places like Iran and Cuba.

He is truly a lost cause.

100meters · October 26, 2006, 1:16pm

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…

I don’t even know why I bother with 100meters. He pretends true democracy exists in places like Iran and Cuba.

He is truly a lost cause.[/quote]

Again this:

I don’t even know why I bother with 100meters. He pretends true democracy exists in places like Iran and Cuba.

Made up out of thin air.

Why on earth lie like this?

That you knew nothing about Iran is not grounds for making s–t up.

Your best bet is to continue cheering on Sloth. I think that’s where you are the most effective.

100meters · October 26, 2006, 1:18pm

[quote]Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…[/quote]

A round about admission that he is elected…I guess I’ll take it.

Sloth · October 26, 2006, 1:43pm

[quote]100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…

A round about admission that he is elected…I guess I’ll take it.
[/quote]

Umm, are you feeling ok? I never said he wasn’t elected…I debunked your notion that the presidential election was some kind of true democracy. And it isn’t, when the only canidates allowed are hand picked by the Supreme Leader’s council. You can apologize now.

Zap_Branigan · October 26, 2006, 7:53pm

[quote]100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…

I don’t even know why I bother with 100meters. He pretends true democracy exists in places like Iran and Cuba.

He is truly a lost cause.

Again this:

I don’t even know why I bother with 100meters. He pretends true democracy exists in places like Iran and Cuba.

Made up out of thin air.

Why on earth lie like this?

That you knew nothing about Iran is not grounds for making s–t up.

Your best bet is to continue cheering on Sloth. I think that’s where you are the most effective.

[/quote]

Dude, you quote old news from Iran like it is earth shattering.

Anyone with half a clue knows the president of Iran is “elected” from the mullahs hand picked candidates.

We all know the mullahs have the power and then you go and pretend he is democratically elected and because he does not hold the power his statements are meaningless.

You think you are smarter than everone else and you clearly are not.

You have massive gaps in your logic and or are just an absolute shill for the Democratic party.

You try to blame Bush for Iran’s misdeeds and then you turn around and tell us to ignore Iran’s misdeeds.

You are forum joke.

pat · October 26, 2006, 7:54pm

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yep, you’re partaking in that great, post-9/11 ritual of putting the cart before the horse.

Bin Laden exists as a threat entirely because the US didn’t back off when it could have…in Saudi Arabia, Palestine, and Somalia. He has made this very clear through his public announcements and interviews, even prior to 9/11…you have heard them, haven’t you?

So Iran is making threats (against Israel, primarily - not us), and may get a few nukes within the next decade. So what? The USSR had 10,000 of them pointed directly at the American continent. Did we attack them, or they us? No. Why not? Because deterrence works. And deterrence is the exact reason why Iran is pursuing its own nuclear program (as is every other nation which possesses the capability, I might add).

If you think that leaving Israel to be “driven into the sea” is such a horid notion, then what’s better – allowing the same thing to happen to the Arab States? That’s precisely what’s been happening in the ME since the establishment of that artificial state. It’s one group or the other. They will never coexist peacefully, and they both know it. Israel knows what is it at stake and knows that if it is to ensure it’s continued existence, it has to amass as much regional power and territory as it can. This is simple geopolitical strategy on the part of Israel’s leaders and generals. That’s why their lobby is so damn hawkish. That’s why they’ve got nukes. They’re no fools.

As the Islamists have their vision of a unified Middle East, so, too, do the Zionists. It’s recorded history.

Once you accept the fact that Israel is a man-made error and that the circumstances of it’s birth ensure that either it’s existence or that of it’s neighbors will always be in danger, the idea of pulling out completely and letting the chips fall where they may becomes easier to swallow.

At some point, you have to let nature run it’s course. Nature always wins in the end. So let the rains come and wash away the dirt.[/quote]

So what you are saying because we did not obey Osama he was justified in attacking us and killing more than 3000 Americans as well as many Africans in his terrorist attacks. You further suggest the notion that we should just obey what terrorists say and we’ll be ok. You are also saying that Iran is justified in it’s threats to Isreal. You are also saying that Isreal is a mistake and we should allow it to be destroyed because by nature that is what should happen.
Weren’t you the one who also said that Western women are stuck up bitches because they do not where buquas?

If you are not a terrorist you should be one. You should join Hamas, become a suicide bomber and rid the world of your stupidity.

Zap_Branigan · October 26, 2006, 7:54pm

[quote]Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…

A round about admission that he is elected…I guess I’ll take it.

Umm, are you feeling ok? I never said he wasn’t elected…I debunked your notion that the presidential election was some kind of true democracy. And it isn’t, when the only canidates allowed are hand picked by the Supreme Leader’s council. You can apologize now.[/quote]

Not a chance. He still maintains Clinton did not perjure himself.

100meters · October 26, 2006, 10:00pm

[quote]Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…

A round about admission that he is elected…I guess I’ll take it.

Umm, are you feeling ok? I never said he wasn’t elected…I debunked your notion that the presidential election was some kind of true democracy. And it isn’t, when the only canidates allowed are hand picked by the Supreme Leader’s council. You can apologize now.[/quote]

The problem of course is:

…“your notion that the presidential election was some kind of true democracy.”

is made up.

It would be better for you to just make your case as to why it matters what the president says even when he has no power to do anything about it.

I’m sure you could come up with a fair, honest reason or two, right?

100meters · October 26, 2006, 10:13pm

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

You have massive gaps in your logic and or are just an absolute shill for the Democratic party.

You try to blame Bush for Iran’s misdeeds and then you turn around and tell us to ignore Iran’s misdeeds.

You are forum joke.[/quote]

Your still making stuff up from vapors…

“You try to blame Bush for Iran’s misdeeds and then you turn around and tell us to ignore Iran’s misdeeds.”

Please
Stop
Lying.
You don’t have to sink to hedo’s level.

as for logic,

My one and only point is that it still doesn’t matter what the president of Iran says. I base that on who has the real power in Iran, and his distinct differences in goals and agenda from the person with ALL the REAL power. I backed this up with obvious examples from the public record.

You have simply made stuff up about me and cheered on Sloth.

If you disagree, kindly point out why it matters what the president says given his lack of ability to actually do anything, ever. I can think of several examples myself for you if you like?

Otherwise stop making stuff up…

Oh, and yes I’m smarter than you, but not smarter than everbody on the boards here…BB comes to mind, Hspder, a couple of others…

100meters · October 26, 2006, 10:29pm

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…

A round about admission that he is elected…I guess I’ll take it.

Umm, are you feeling ok? I never said he wasn’t elected…I debunked your notion that the presidential election was some kind of true democracy. And it isn’t, when the only canidates allowed are hand picked by the Supreme Leader’s council. You can apologize now.

Not a chance. He still maintains Clinton did not perjure himself.[/quote]

Goodness…Again with the obvious…
When did a court accuse him of perjury and find him guilty, because I missed that?

I’ll be patiently waiting for your response…

(because this is going to take a reallllllllllllllllly long time.)

Sloth · October 26, 2006, 11:02pm

[quote]100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Is he an elected official?

answer: yes.

So readers note how incredibly stupid this sounds:

"Yet, right here you show your ignorance about Iran. " (Zap cheering in the background)

Yep, you are very capable of processing out anything that challenges the world you’ve created for yourself.

Reminds of local elections held in some communist regimes. “You can vote for Loyal Communist Party member Joe, Loyal Communist Party member Bob, or Loyal Communist Party member Tom. Fill in the bubble for your choice of our hand-picked, state and party approved, canidates!” Yay, democracy in action!

I invite folks to review the hand-picking of canidates in Iran, which I laid out in my post above. It’s no different than “Loyal Communist Party member” “democracy.” Yay, democracy in action! Yeesh…

A round about admission that he is elected…I guess I’ll take it.

Umm, are you feeling ok? I never said he wasn’t elected…I debunked your notion that the presidential election was some kind of true democracy. And it isn’t, when the only canidates allowed are hand picked by the Supreme Leader’s council. You can apologize now.

The problem of course is:

…“your notion that the presidential election was some kind of true democracy.”

is made up.

It would be better for you to just make your case as to why it matters what the president says even when he has no power to do anything about it.

I’m sure you could come up with a fair, honest reason or two, right?
[/quote]

You implied it wasn’t very democratic of me to suggest the Ayatollah remove the President. I responded that it’s a silly charge. After all, there’s jack squat that is democratic about their process.

Already had this arguement. Scroll up to previous posts.

Sloth · October 26, 2006, 11:11pm

Has the Ayatollah officially rectracted his “Destruction of Israel” statement? Has the Ayatollah taken decisive action against terrorism (and material support of) originating from his country? I mean, his agenda is one of peaceful reconcilliation and harmless nuclear power, right? Why not do those things and prove your peaceful intentions to the world. Recognize Israel. Contact Washington with decisive steps being taken against terrorism. Be a pal.

Oh wait, the world has to promise to let him have nucler power first. All this, while the most influential clerics are putting out pro-nuclear weapon fatwahs. And hope one day we won’t see the headline “Iran set to test nuclear warhead.”

Nominal_Prospect · October 27, 2006, 1:51am

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I don’t even know why I bother with 100meters. He pretends true democracy exists in places like Iran and Cuba.

He is truly a lost cause.[/quote]

Iran has been gradually opening up to reformers, becoming more liberal.

Ironically, there’s nothing that could be a greater setback to this process and cement the position of the conservative establishment more than a threat from outside.

Once again, idiotic American meddling is destroying the very thing which it [ostensibly] seeks to bring about.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I don’t even know why I bother with 100meters. He pretends true democracy exists in places like Iran and Cuba.[/quote]

So now it’s all about democracy, or lack thereof. Why? It never has been in the past. It never is when American interests are at stake. It is only used as a propaganda point against regimes which refuse to tout the Washington line.

The US has a long history of overthrowing democratically-elected leaders and replacing them with dictatorial puppets. It frequently intervenes in foreign elections, most recently all over Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

What a joke. You can trot that old horse back to it’s stable.

It’s done.

hedo · October 27, 2006, 12:16pm

[quote]100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

You have massive gaps in your logic and or are just an absolute shill for the Democratic party.

You try to blame Bush for Iran’s misdeeds and then you turn around and tell us to ignore Iran’s misdeeds.

You are forum joke.

Your still making stuff up from vapors…

“You try to blame Bush for Iran’s misdeeds and then you turn around and tell us to ignore Iran’s misdeeds.”

Please
Stop
Lying.
You don’t have to sink to hedo’s level.

as for logic,

My one and only point is that it still doesn’t matter what the president of Iran says. I base that on who has the real power in Iran, and his distinct differences in goals and agenda from the person with ALL the REAL power. I backed this up with obvious examples from the public record.

You have simply made stuff up about me and cheered on Sloth.

If you disagree, kindly point out why it matters what the president says given his lack of ability to actually do anything, ever. I can think of several examples myself for you if you like?

Otherwise stop making stuff up…

Oh, and yes I’m smarter than you, but not smarter than everbody on the boards here…BB comes to mind, Hspder, a couple of others…

[/quote]

100 you are still a raging pussy. Pussy as in cowardly piece of shit.

Your arguments have no basis in reality but your greatest failing is that you think your opinions are fact and don’t seem to have the ability to discern the opinions of others from facts. You comically confuse the two, much to your embarassment.

Why do you feel you are intelligent. Accolades are best given by others and I don’t think anyone has ever paid you a compliment. You are routinely mocked, for sport, by many of the posters on T-Nation. The fact that you don’t even realize it is what makes you entertaining. Do you really believe anyone takes your seriously. I mean come on, your not that stupid are you?

The only thing you stated that is even remotely correct, on this thread, is that BB is smarter then you. Hspeder is a made up character, by his own admission so that is a silly comparison.

So let’s all trust the Iranians. Geez they sent us a fax saying they want to talk. Well damm that should be good enough. If you can’t trust an Iranian Mullah…who can you trust right?

Ignore that “Death to America” chant in the background. Maybe they should chant “Death to Bush” then the Democrats would really embarce them huh? They are a bastion of free elections in the Middle East…just like the USSR was. Everyone knows that right…it’s been confirmed…only a retard would think otherwise.

Once you come out of your fog 100 you’ll realize you try the same weak argument against everyone. “Everyone is making stuff up”, when you are overwhelmed with facts and/or reason you have the same response. Then you pussy out and go off on a tangent. Your a one trick pony kid. I don’t take you seriously and I don’t think anyone else does either. You should change your name again and start over.

100meters · October 28, 2006, 3:31pm

[quote]hedo wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote: