Iran Threatening Europe over Israel

You didn’t even attempt to address the points I made about the document. “We’ll do something about terrorism, when we’re allowed nuclear tech.” Lots of confidence in that position, let me tell ya. “We’ll recognize Israel once we’re allowed the technology that could destroy them.” Both, the Ayatollah, and the President have called for the destruction of Israel.

Nor, have you even grasped how silly your arguement has become. You seem to believe that the Ayatollah (who in 2000, called for the destruction of Israel) is not in agreement with the President. You argue the President has zero power (false, he has considerable power and influence), is completely sub-servient to the Ayatollah. Yet, day in and day out, allows the President to contradict his peaceful wishes.

All this without righteously, and publically, rebuking the president for the dangerous tone and threats he’s setting forth? Remember, this Ayatollah doesn’t agree with the president… Yet, lo and behold, stands by and watches his president threaten Israel and the west. Not a real good wielder of that Supreme power! Either the Ayatollah agrees, or simply isn’t all that supreme in his power. Why else would he continue to let the mad man provoke the world? Remember, the Ayatollah just wants peace, and nuclear technology!

I formally accept your apology, in advance.

[quote]100meters wrote:

Sigh, since you still aren’t getting it…
The president doesn’t speak for the supreme leader, and for the most part are GREATLY at odds, in fact the supreme leader probably resents the presidents popularity which stems from his semi-socialist agenda (anti-privatization, pro-working class, etc.). The supreme leader’s goal are very much oriented to privatization and economic policy that benefits the bazaari interests. Hence the supreme leader’s great interest in achieving normal relations with the U.S. (prior to being rebuffed by Bush–but still there to some degree) In short the two ARE NOT A TEAM!!!
for some perspective the supreme leader’s council feels this way:

In the middle of a tirade about the pointlessness of talking with the Bush administration, a senior Iranian official I met in Tehran last month abruptly paused and asked if he could speak off the record. Then he said: “What we need is an American president who will follow the example of Richard Nixon going to China.”

There in a nutshell is what this Iranian government, and most Iranians I’ve spoken to, fervently desire from the United States: not the tactical talks offered last week by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice but strategic recognition of Iran as a great civilization and a regional power that must be treated, like China, as a “stakeholder” in global affairs. Grant us that, said the Iranian official I saw, and “just as with China, you’ll find a government that is more responsive to your concerns, more willing to play a cooperative role.”

It was interesting to hear that pitch from an officer of a government whose president has recently invited the United States, aka “global arrogance,” to abandon democracy and accept the dissolution of Israel. It was a reminder that, whatever President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may say in public, obtaining recognition from Washington remains one of the Islamic regime’s foremost goals – and perhaps the most powerful nonmilitary card the West holds in seeking to stop Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons.

and…

ISTANBUL – As diplomatic maneuvering continues over Iran’s nuclear program, the cleric who holds ultimate authority in the country has signaled twice in recent days that Iran intends to engage the wider world it long held at bay.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, announced the formation of a new council to advise him on foreign affairs and a new privatization program aimed at preparing Iran for eventual membership in the World Trade Organization…

…The formation of a new foreign relations panel may also indicate dissatisfaction with the foreign policy performance of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Khamenei named as the panel’s chairman Kamal Kharrazi, the man Ahmadinejad removed as foreign minister after taking office last year.

“I think it’s significant,” said a European diplomat in Tehran, who asked to not be identified further so that he could speak openly. “Personally, I think it amounts to trying to put limits to the president.”

The new Strategic Council for Foreign Relations also includes another former foreign minister, a former admiral in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, a former commerce official and a cleric with hard-line credentials who has served as Iran’s ambassador to China. The new council joins a constellation of existing government panels devoted to foreign policy, but it will report directly to Khamenei, who “sensed a deficiency,” Kharrazi told Iranian media.

Bill Samii, who follows Iranian affairs for U.S.-funded Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty, said Ahmadinejad’s confrontational rhetoric reflects the views of fellow veterans of the eight-year war with Iraq, when Iran was bitterly disappointed to find itself fighting alone. Western powers and Arab states supported Saddam Hussein’s secular Iraq.

“Ahmadinejad and his cohorts play up the sort of appeal to the Third World and the Non-Aligned Movement on the nuclear issue, and of course their background and their experience in the war with Iraq teaches them you want to be as self-sufficient as possible,” Samii said. “But the leadership and people in responsibility know you can’t go it alone. You can’t walk the talk.”

So as I said before, what the president says—doesn’t matter. It’s what the Supreme leader says that matters, and what they want is quite different. Obviously.

Your apology, of course is accepted in advance. Poor Zap’s too.

[/quote]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:

Zap,
Do you think Bush made a mistake rejecting Iran’s offer?

Their offer was obviosly phony. Why in the world would you think they were sincere?[/quote]

Oh gee I don’t know, perhaps it’s Iranian leadership’s active interest in getting involved in the WTO, etc…or did you not know that Iranian leadership (which hilariously does not include Ahmadinejad) actually wants to be involved in global affairs…I’m guessing(based on your past here) that you didn’t.

In fact like sloth, most likely you don’t know a damn thing about Iran except that Ahmadinejad is the president.

This is why it helps to READ the public record (does not include Newsmax)

Fatwa by Iran’s most influential clerical leaders for the development of Nuclear weapons.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/index.html

Ahmadinejad is quoted as saying, “Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation’s fury.”

Oh my gosh! The powerless president is suggesting that the disagreeing Supreme Leader should burn! I mean, it’s Bush that’s kept the Ayatollah from recognizing Isreal, so we’re told. Yet, the peaceful, disageeing, all powerful Supreme Leader has yet to remove him. Or, even publically tell him to shut his cake hole, or face his wrath. Wow…

Yeah, I can really feel that huge ideological difference in this article…

we are all terrorist in somebodies eyes. it just depends on where you live, and who’s in your way. to us they are terrorist, to them we are the terrorist, what makes our justification for killing any different from theirs?

p.s. i agree with his view on israel, i dont believe it should be there. not that i think they should be harmed, or that there is anything anyone can or will do to change what has already happened, it’s wayy to late for anything like that. everybody just needs to worry about themselves and their own country.

it’s everybodies planet nobody makes the all the rules. and for everydoby who is soo scared about what’s gonna happen in the future with weapons of mass distruction and nukes and what not, shit happens and your not that important anyways. your born to die, get over it. pussies :wink:

[quote]hedo wrote:
Peace and Quiet in it’s own backyard?

Is that why they export munitions, training and cash to terrorist groups throughout the Middle East…to promote peace and quiet?

Europe will cave in, it will just take some more time. Lack of political will and military ability has already assured that of happening.[/quote]

Their actions are in line with their ultimate goal of having an Islamic, Arabic Middle East.

Now here’s the kicker: Historically, the Middle East has been…Islamic and Arabic.

So what the fuck are you finding so extreme or radical about this agenda? Lmao.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
hedo wrote:
Peace and Quiet in it’s own backyard?

Is that why they export munitions, training and cash to terrorist groups throughout the Middle East…to promote peace and quiet?

Europe will cave in, it will just take some more time. Lack of political will and military ability has already assured that of happening.

Their actions are in line with their ultimate goal of having an Islamic, Arabic Middle East.

Now here’s the kicker: Historically, the Middle East has been…Islamic and Arabic.

So what the fuck are you finding so extreme or radical about this agenda? Lmao.[/quote]

Your idiotic reference to peace and quiet is what is makeing the rest of us laugh. Too funny.

Do you have a point?

[quote]100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:

Zap,
Do you think Bush made a mistake rejecting Iran’s offer?

Their offer was obviosly phony. Why in the world would you think they were sincere?

Oh gee I don’t know, perhaps it’s Iranian leadership’s active interest in getting involved in the WTO, etc…or did you not know that Iranian leadership (which hilariously does not include Ahmadinejad) actually wants to be involved in global affairs…I’m guessing(based on your past here) that you didn’t.

In fact like sloth, most likely you don’t know a damn thing about Iran except that Ahmadinejad is the president.

This is why it helps to READ the public record (does not include Newsmax)

[/quote]

I cannot decide if you are gullible or a paid operative for the DNC to spread shit on this board.

Either way you are spreading our enemies propaganda to try to discredit the Republicans and it makes you look foolish.

If Iran wants to stop exporting terrorism and stop developing nukes in order to rejoin the world community they do not need a payoff from the US to do it.

Trying to blame Iran’s evil actions on Bush not paying them off is among the dumbest things you have posted.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
hedo wrote:
Peace and Quiet in it’s own backyard?

Is that why they export munitions, training and cash to terrorist groups throughout the Middle East…to promote peace and quiet?

Europe will cave in, it will just take some more time. Lack of political will and military ability has already assured that of happening.

Their actions are in line with their ultimate goal of having an Islamic, Arabic Middle East.

Now here’s the kicker: Historically, the Middle East has been…Islamic and Arabic.

So what the fuck are you finding so extreme or radical about this agenda? Lmao.[/quote]

Their actions are in line with an Islamic Europe and eventually and Islamic world.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:

Zap,
Do you think Bush made a mistake rejecting Iran’s offer?

Their offer was obviosly phony. Why in the world would you think they were sincere?

Oh gee I don’t know, perhaps it’s Iranian leadership’s active interest in getting involved in the WTO, etc…or did you not know that Iranian leadership (which hilariously does not include Ahmadinejad) actually wants to be involved in global affairs…I’m guessing(based on your past here) that you didn’t.

In fact like sloth, most likely you don’t know a damn thing about Iran except that Ahmadinejad is the president.

This is why it helps to READ the public record (does not include Newsmax)

I cannot decide if you are gullible or a paid operative for the DNC to spread shit on this board.

Either way you are spreading our enemies propaganda to try to discredit the Republicans and it makes you look foolish.

If Iran wants to stop exporting terrorism and stop developing nukes in order to rejoin the world community they do not need a payoff from the US to do it.

Trying to blame Iran’s evil actions on Bush not paying them off is among the dumbest things you have posted.[/quote]

Jeebus, this post is just incredibly stupid.

Explaining to morons the dynamics of another country is not spreading propoganda.

This tidbit made up out of thin air:

“Trying to blame Iran’s evil actions on Bush not paying them off is among the dumbest things you have posted.”

My point remains: It doesn’t matter what the president of Iran says or does.

It matters what the Supreme Leader says and does.

That they agree on anything (factually not much) is OF COURSE totally besides the point. That the Supreme Leader hasn’t removed an elected official (the president) is ALSO totally besides the point and a hilarious position to take anyway (not very democratic of sloth). What would matter is that there are huge differences between them, especially considering their intents toward the U.S. and it’s allies (trans: one is not spokesperson for the other) and only one can truly act on its intentions. (trans: the Supreme Leader has ultimate power, the President obviously does not).

But by all means, please point out how both don’t like Israel again (it’s called being a muslim)

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Yeah, I can really feel that huge ideological difference in this article…[/quote]

This article doesn’t discuss “ideological differences” or similarities. Of course as I pointed out before (with references) they are opposite sides of a coin.

More to the real point:

“But this is the second time Ayatollah Khamenei, who hold last word of matters of state and policy,”( Zap will now accuse the FT of spreading propoganda—goodness, poor lil’ Zap)

and his agenda in supporting the populist president:

He called on Iranians to ?focus on common ground and the commands of Islam, and avoid any action or statement which may cause rifts among the people?.

can’t imagine why that would be important to a Supreme Leader.

[quote]100meters wrote:
…Jeebus, this post is just incredibly stupid.

…[/quote]

Most of your posts are. I don’t know why I bother with you. You are so far over the edge.

[quote]100meters wrote:

More to the real point:

“But this is the second time Ayatollah Khamenei, who hold last word of matters of state and policy,”( Zap will now accuse the FT of spreading propoganda—goodness, poor lil’ Zap)

and his agenda in supporting the populist president:

He called on Iranians to ?focus on common ground and the commands of Islam, and avoid any action or statement which may cause rifts among the people?.

can’t imagine why that would be important to a Supreme Leader.
[/quote]

Iran supports Shia killing Sunni and you happily spread this evil man’s lies.

Shame on you.

Yea, back off. Just like we did with Bin Ladin. He will go away. Isn’t not taking rhetoric like this seriously what got us in to this mess in the first place? If Akmajinathingy were at odds with the “Supreme Leader” he’d be dead. They vowed to rid the world of Isreal and they are developing nukes. I am no prophet but I don’t think it’s a stretch to see what the future is going to be if this remains unchallenged. Then it won’t matter what anyone’s opinion is. We will all be in deep shit. Or, I guess we are already. I don’t see these problems going away anytime soon.

[quote]100meters wrote:

Like I said, it doesn’t matter what he says. He’s a silly spokesperson with zero credibility and no military authority. Just ignore him.[/quote]

Like the Europeans did, ignoring ‘Mein Kampf’ ?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:

Zap,
Do you think Bush made a mistake rejecting Iran’s offer?

Their offer was obviosly phony. Why in the world would you think they were sincere?

Oh gee I don’t know, perhaps it’s Iranian leadership’s active interest in getting involved in the WTO, etc…or did you not know that Iranian leadership (which hilariously does not include Ahmadinejad) actually wants to be involved in global affairs…I’m guessing(based on your past here) that you didn’t.

In fact like sloth, most likely you don’t know a damn thing about Iran except that Ahmadinejad is the president.

This is why it helps to READ the public record (does not include Newsmax)

I cannot decide if you are gullible or a paid operative for the DNC to spread shit on this board.

Either way you are spreading our enemies propaganda to try to discredit the Republicans and it makes you look foolish.

If Iran wants to stop exporting terrorism and stop developing nukes in order to rejoin the world community they do not need a payoff from the US to do it.

Trying to blame Iran’s evil actions on Bush not paying them off is among the dumbest things you have posted.[/quote]\

Fess up, 100 meters. Are you really working for the DNC?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Their actions are in line with an Islamic Europe and eventually and Islamic world.[/quote]

Bah, I don’t buy that shit.

I think it’s a neocon scare tactic which plays off the xenophobia of their conservative base. As long as no group wipes out another through genocide, and whites continue to breed the way they always have, there’s no reason to think that you’ll wake up one day and suddenly find yourself surrounded by ragheads.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Back off, and the problem will go away. Unlike America, Iran is not trying to police the entire world. It simply wants peace and quiet in it’s own backyard.

Yea, back off. Just like we did with Bin Ladin. He will go away. Isn’t not taking rhetoric like this seriously what got us in to this mess in the first place? If Akmajinathingy were at odds with the “Supreme Leader” he’d be dead. They vowed to rid the world of Isreal and they are developing nukes. I am no prophet but I don’t think it’s a stretch to see what the future is going to be if this remains unchallenged. Then it won’t matter what anyone’s opinion is. We will all be in deep shit. Or, I guess we are already. I don’t see these problems going away anytime soon.[/quote]

Yep, you’re partaking in that great, post-9/11 ritual of putting the cart before the horse.

Bin Laden exists as a threat entirely because the US didn’t back off when it could have…in Saudi Arabia, Palestine, and Somalia. He has made this very clear through his public announcements and interviews, even prior to 9/11…you have heard them, haven’t you?

Do you think the history of American involvement in the Middle East started with the 2003 Iraq Invasion? lol
Do you think the people who have been living under Western influence for decades have forgotten this? lol*2

So Iran is making threats (against Israel, primarily - not us), and may get a few nukes within the next decade. So what? The USSR had 10,000 of them pointed directly at the American continent. Did we attack them, or they us? No. Why not? Because deterrence works. And deterrence is the exact reason why Iran is pursuing its own nuclear program (as is every other nation which possesses the capability, I might add).

America has absolutely no vital interest in getting involved with Middle Eastern politics. America has no interest in protecting Israel.

If you think that leaving Israel to be “driven into the sea” is such a horid notion, then what’s better – allowing the same thing to happen to the Arab States? That’s precisely what’s been happening in the ME since the establishment of that artificial state. It’s one group or the other. They will never coexist peacefully, and they both know it. Israel knows what is it at stake and knows that if it is to ensure it’s continued existence, it has to amass as much regional power and territory as it can. This is simple geopolitical strategy on the part of Israel’s leaders and generals. That’s why their lobby is so damn hawkish. That’s why they’ve got nukes. They’re no fools.

As the Islamists have their vision of a unified Middle East, so, too, do the Zionists. It’s recorded history.

Once you accept the fact that Israel is a man-made error and that the circumstances of it’s birth ensure that either it’s existence or that of it’s neighbors will always be in danger, the idea of pulling out completely and letting the chips fall where they may becomes easier to swallow.

At some point, you have to let nature run it’s course. Nature always wins in the end. So let the rains come and wash away the dirt.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:

This article doesn’t discuss “ideological differences” or similarities. Of course as I pointed out before (with references) they are opposite sides of a coin.

More to the real point:

“But this is the second time Ayatollah Khamenei, who hold last word of matters of state and policy,”( Zap will now accuse the FT of spreading propoganda—goodness, poor lil’ Zap)

and his agenda in supporting the populist president:

He called on Iranians to ?focus on common ground and the commands of Islam, and avoid any action or statement which may cause rifts among the people?.

can’t imagine why that would be important to a Supreme Leader.
[/quote]

Um, he was restating his support after the President had threatened the total destruction of Israel…which isn’t a suprise since the Ayatollah himself has called for the destruction of Israel.

Oh yes, I’ve never disagreed that the Supreme Leader can, at anytime, step up and use his total power. But, he hasn’t. He hasn’t publically denounced (removal, would be more appropriate) the President for making absolute threats against Israel, and Europe. Why is that 100? Can you answer me that? Why hasn’t he removed a President making overt threats left and right, while he himself is attempting to convince the world Iran merely wants nuclear tech for peaceful purposes? Could it be because the Ayatollah hasn’t changed his position on the total destruction of Israel, which he advanced as recently as 2000?

Why is it that support for terrorism would end, if the world would just trusts Iran with nuclear power, gosh darn it? What kind of logic is that? That’s the cart before the horse. Nor, does it help that the most influential clerics in Iran are issueing pro-nuclear weapon fatwahs. How about, oh I don’t know, work for a lasting peace with the Israelis, and take action against terrorism first? Have you even asked yourself any of these questions? Are do you really, really, believe the Ayatollah has become this wonderful peacloving man?