Yes, as are the Christian Zionists who are their theological descendants and who are the topic of the proposition that “Evangelical Zionist Christians seem to me like the equivalent of ISIS”?”
I guess it depends on what you call “evangelicals”.
If you are talking about the Quakers and the resulting Christian Zionists, you are (in general) incorrect.
I can’t believe you guys are so bad you are making a lapsed Catholic defend Protestants. That should probably tell you how bigoted you guys are.
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I don’t believe traditional Quakers are evangelicals.
I also don’t think Christian zionists are an actual denomination.
I’m referring to the evangelicalism that rose from the great awakenings.
Well, the topic at hand is “Christian Zionists” in the USA that came about a couple of places and a couple of denominations, but as relevant here, came across the Atlantic Ocean with the Puritans. In short, the mix-mash of sources that is typical of American Protestants.
Totally… All those people in Iraq that suffered horribly under Saddam were just paid crisis actors waving at us and cheering our arrival. C’mon dude… Trashcanistan too. Things were going so well under the Taliban and various warlords. I’m sure the young boys routinely sodomized and raped just hated our presence. Never mind those salacious women.
…which is why I’m always a little surprised more liberals are not hawkish. I am a bleeding heart liberal hawk for the very reasons you state- even if the official reasons for a mission are BS, the military is there policing the world’s worst… Yeah we only intervene when it benefits us, but an act can be helpful without being altruistic.
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Agreed. We can all agree that nation building is and has been a complete loss and then some. But I feel the same as you in general: any net decrease in the prevalence of absolute evil like ISIS (or other fill in the blank thugs) is a net gain for the world.
I’m not naive enough to believe that geopolitics is in any way altruistic, nor should it be, but as you say…good grand strategy does not need to be altruistic in order to be helpful to oppressed people.
On the other hand, we have completely lost our grand strategy and vision so I have no faith in the current administration
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Thank you and yes. We absolutely should be there addressing those issues.
Or the same pro-Iran Shiites that have been launching rockets at US bases lately.
I’m sure they did, since the rapists were the ones allied with the US. No wonder they were against the Taliban, under sharia law they would have their heads chopped off.
" Afghan forces who worked with U.S. military personnel sexually assaulted boys, and members of Congress complained about a U.S. soldier being forced out of the military because he intervened in 2011, attacking an Afghan police commander he believed was raping a child."
Go learn about what evangelical Zionists preach and come back and talk. I used those quotes because you said
= / =
Doesn’t change the fact. Were you there ?
Which fact? That the US government is allied with homosexual pedophiles that produce most of the world’s heroin?
From the Wikipedia article you linked:
The General Assembly of the National Council of Churches in November 2007 approved a resolution for further study which stated that the "theological stance of Christian Zionism adversely affects:
- justice and peace in the Middle East, delaying the day when Israelis and Palestinians can live within secure borders
- relationships with Middle Eastern Christians (see the Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism)
- relationships with Jews, since Jews are seen as mere pawns in an eschatological scheme
- relationships with Muslims, since it treats the rights of Muslims as subordinate to the rights of Jews
- interfaith dialogue, since it views the world in starkly dichotomous terms"[63]
…
The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem (Catholic), the Syriac Orthodox Archdiocese of Jerusalem, the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land published the Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism in 2006, which rejects Christian Zionism as substituting—in its view—a political-military program in place of the teachings of Jesus Christ.[62] It criticizes Christian Zionism as an obstacle to peace and understanding in Israel-Palestine.
See what some Jews have to say:
“For Israel to find its place in the region, it needs to step out from the American shadows and reach out to its neighbors directly and boldly, not as an act of capitulation, but with the confidence and belief that no one is going anywhere. Israelis need to make clear that, just like many Iranians aren’t fully aligned with their government’s actions, so do we oppose the most nationalistic and militaristic tendencies of our elected officials”
I know why you did it; to try to slander a group by twisting what they say and their beliefs and taking quotes out of context. It’s not exactly honest discourse.
I’m not keen on fundies, but I do know good people when I see them. The actual volunteers and hard workers on the reservation where I grew up were the fundies. They asked for nothing, didn’t press for conversions, and just served their fellow man. Pleasant people. Good hearted. We need more of them.
So they think the world will end someday. So what? Well, so does every Jew, Christian, Muslim, Zoroastrian, Hindu, and atheist physicist.
I still don’t see Pompeo wanting to chop the heads off unbelievers, nor some desire to speed up the end of the world.
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So people disagree with them because they like Israel.
I guess, coming from your perspective as a hater-of-Israel, I guess supporting Israel is a terrible thing.
Still doesn’t make them ISIS.
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We were also allies with Soviet Russia during WWII. Irrelevant? yes.
Just like your post. Wars make strange bedfellows. You generally have to ally with the “less bad at the moment.”
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Were. You. There. ?
Opium has legitimate medical applications. But by all means… Forgo its use next time you need a medical procedure. Money meets mouth.
That was to prove that Pompeo buys into this rapture nonsense. But as for slander, what do you make of this:
" Their support for Israel is not only ideologically and politically motivated, but is also driven by a fundamentalist vision of the messianic age. Jews and Israel play an important role in their particular brand of Christianity, known as premillennial dispensationalism, or End Days theology.
…
Oh, and there’s this: Within the Christian premillennial dispensationalist scenario, Jews have only two options at the end of time: either convert to Christianity and be saved, or be incinerated. It’ll be that kind of peace."
No, because they support policies which will lead to endless conflict in the middle east. Unless of course they get raptured to heaven while the rest of us suffer and die.
I have no problem with the existence of Israel, I have a problem with what their government and some extremists are doing. It’s also in contravention of international law, despite what the Trump administration claims.
Hmmm, a couple of proselytizing death cults bent on bringing about the end of the world…
Yeah and now the commies control one of the two main US political parties. Totally irrelevant.
Sounds good, but you guys still haven’t defeated the Taliban and last I heard were negotiating with them. Meanwhile the US is in the middle of an opioid epidemic and Afghanistan’s apostate Muslim pedos are producing record amounts of heroin, which would have gotten them killed when the Taliban was in charge. Brilliant strategy.
So you support Afghani opium producers? I know Trump is having a bit of an economic battle with China, I suppose flooding the country with cheap, high quality heroin would put a dent in Chinese fentanyl sales but is that really what you want?
Another thing, the US was also allies with the Taliban when the USSR invaded Afghanistan and Bin Laden worked for the CIA. But like you say,
If you keep switching sides then soon enough everyone will be against you. And on top of it, you have a large proportion of far-leftists who are bringing the country down from the inside. Maybe instead of imperialist wars and sex tapes with Epstein the US should focus on fixing its own problems.
Hmmm