Iran: If Not Now, When?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

That justifies spending trillions of dollars in fighting a war that will never end. This will be a shocker, but what happens if we leave other countries and mind our own business? Can we just leave a given country alone until we are attacked first?

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Okay, I’ve done a little of your homework for you then:

‘In Iran the prudent and sophisticated Islamist leaders were absorbing the lessons of the 1995 operations. In the early months of 1996 Tehran started laying the foundations for the next phase in the terrorist jihad, establishment of the HizbAllah International, with bin Laden in a senior position. The significance of this organization for the prevailing terrorist threat was demonstrated in its first strikes: the bombing of U.S. barracks in Khobar, Saudi Arabia; the downing of TWA800; and the assassination of a U.S. intelligence officer in Cairo. The Iranians now clearly acknowledged not only the importance of the “Afghans”(al-Qaeda) and the other Sunni Islamist radicals but also the distinction of their chosen leaders - specifically, bin Laden and Zawahiri.’ etc

Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America - Yossef Bodansky, The Committee of Three p. 125[/quote]

62

Wow, that was a lot. I’m impressed SM had the endurance to answer those questions.

63

Not gonna happen.

Those sites are underground and dispersed no bombing run will get rid of them.

It might be just enough to push them to finally develop one.

Nothing short of a complete regime overthrow would do, those are the same people who sent their kids into minefields to clear them in the war against Iraq.

Also, the Strait of Hormuz would be closed, every American ship sunk and vital oil infrastructure could be destroyed, delivering yet another blow to the world economy.

Add to that the consequences of yet another attack on a Muslim country and Neocons might finally get the full blown Jihad they seem to be praying for since the SU collapsed.

64

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Sexmachine, one question before you leave. Do you think these two wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) have positively contributed to our economy or negatively impacted it? Or were they irrelevant? [/quote]

Negatively of course. However the US would collapse overnight both economically and socially/politically, if it stopped confronting the threats to its existence/interests.[/quote]

Bahahahahaha!

A country does not have “interests” – its political overlords do. We, as their subordinates, are separate of the American government and her interests.

In the interests of the “American People” I truly cannot wait for a collapse.

66

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Question is why wait around? Why not get the fuck outta town now? Why do you linger? I hear Austria, or at least Somalia, is purt near utopia. Why not emigrate?

[/quote]

Where do you hear things like that?

Maybe the voices in your head are woefully misinformed?

67

Why expend the energy to leave if there is no difference in any place I could go?

All I ask is to be left alone to live in peace and not be constantly solicited by government to fork over money to fund their disasters.

That would be Utopian enough for me.

70

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Question is why wait around? Why not get the fuck outta town now? Why do you linger? I hear Austria, or at least Somalia, is purt near utopia. Why not emigrate?

[/quote]

Where do you hear things like that?

Maybe the voices in your head are woefully misinformed?[/quote]

Well, thanks for chiming in, Joe. To be honest, I inferred that Austria must be utopia from…you, come to think of it.

The fact that you spend a majority of your PWI time slamming the US and 0% of it doing the same to your homeland leaves me little choice but to believe that the Land the the Anschluss must also be the land of milk and honey.[/quote]

Yeah I could see why a country where you cannot be kidnapped and tortured by the executive branch might look like paradise.

Our strict no children fondling policy at our airports might also work wonders.

Well, no adult fondling either, come to think of it. The Austrian army, keeping us free with much less effort, the paragon of military achievement.

Heroes, all of them.

But, dont be deceived, living in a budding police state every semi civilized nation would look utopian to you.

71

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Why expend the energy to leave if there is no difference in any place I could go?

All I ask is to be left alone to live in peace and not be constantly solicited by government to fork over money to fund their disasters.

That would be Utopian enough for me.[/quote]

All you need to do is go 12 miles offshore, bud.[/quote]

Ha, no longer.

Still having problems what SENATOR BILL GRAHAM was spelling out?

America is at war with the universe, all of the Lords creation is a battlefield now.

Not to mention the scores of people who where arrested for doing something or other not on American soil.

At least they were arrested.

They got a lawyer and a judge and no more than two light bulbs up their ass.

74

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Question is why wait around? Why not get the fuck outta town now? Why do you linger? I hear Austria, or at least Somalia, is purt near utopia. Why not emigrate?

[/quote]

Where do you hear things like that?

Maybe the voices in your head are woefully misinformed?[/quote]

Well, thanks for chiming in, Joe. To be honest, I inferred that Austria must be utopia from…you, come to think of it.

The fact that you spend a majority of your PWI time slamming the US and 0% of it doing the same to your homeland leaves me little choice but to believe that the Land the the Anschluss must also be the land of milk and honey.[/quote]

Yeah I could see why a country where you cannot be kidnapped and tortured by the executive branch might look like paradise.

Our strict no children fondling policy at our airports might also work wonders.

Well, no adult fondling either, come to think of it. The Austrian army, keeping us free with much less effort, the paragon of military achievement.

Heroes, all of them.

But, dont be deceived, living in a budding police state every semi civilized nation would look utopian to you.
[/quote]

Damn, Push, where the HELL do you live?

That sounds positively terrible.

Thank god the US isn’t anything like that!

(Though I do hear that there are some internet-educated foreigners who fantasize about such things…) [/quote]

I will refrain from posting that overused “when they came for me” poem.

But yeah, when they come for you, you were there when the stage was set.

76

Here we go again…

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So our country learned that by sticking our nose in everyone’s business, it then got bloody?

[/quote]

No quite the opposite.

Is that so? I won’t argue with you. Diplomacy also means having no embassies right? Okay fella.

EDIT: You mean they wanted to draw us into a trap whereby we exhaust our resources in fighting them? That may be true. That strategy was not written about by al-Qaeda until some years AFTER the Afghan war had begun. Al-Qaeda strategist Ilyas Kashmiri first mentioned it in 2006 or 2007. It is certainly something that needs to be taken into consideration but it’s not a reason to allow al-Qaeda a safe haven. Besides, anyone familiar with Afghanistan/Central Asia would already know what to expect in Afghanistan.

On what? I have yet to use wikipedia as a “source.” I used it to quickly refer you to such events as the Khobar Towers bombing and the US Marine Barracks bombing so you would know what I was talking about. When you asked for a source on those events I provided it. Don’t waste my time.

Answer what?

You cannot “prove” such a thing. It requires common sense and some knowledge of how the real world works.

Yes you do.

No one. Embassies are not “strategically important” in any meaningful sense and I never suggested they were.

You asked an extremely complex question. You asked why US has forces all around the world. You want a more detailed answer look to the Cold War and events that have occurred since the end of the Cold War.

One of my points too.

Exactly. Like I said, it came about as a consequence of the Second World War and the Cold War. I don’t make up the rules.

Well, this is where the batshit begins. Why do you believe that batshit? Actually, don’t bother. Believe what you like.

Because of the batshit and the evil and the human nature. Don’t you see? Hitler did not kill 50 million people and invade a dozen sovereign nations because he was upset at the Versailles treaty. Islamic fundamentalists are not waging war on us because we used to have forces stationed in the Saudi kingdom or because we were involved in one of half a dozen coups in the early 1950’s. It’s batshit. Wake up.

Pearl fucking Harbor. Before that half the Republican Party was busy trying to sell Britain down the toilet spreading Nazi propaganda and playing footsies with the Japanese. Okay? That’s how it was.

See above. See ‘Neutrality Acts of the 1930’s,’ ‘Ludlow Amendment,’ ‘America First Committee’ etc

So you would’ve been against a pre-emptive attack to prevent Pearl Harbor and the entire Pacific War? Rhetorical. Let’s agree to disagree.

Of course it’s not. What do you suggest? Oh that’s right - into the shell - Japan in the Edo period only it’s the United States in the 21st century. And on top of that no one will attack them because the ‘motives’ have suddenly been removed. Okay, I’ve had enough of this nonsense. Thanks for the laughs.

77

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Question is why wait around? Why not get the fuck outta town now? Why do you linger? I hear Austria, or at least Somalia, is purt near utopia. Why not emigrate?

[/quote]

Where do you hear things like that?

Maybe the voices in your head are woefully misinformed?[/quote]

Well, thanks for chiming in, Joe. To be honest, I inferred that Austria must be utopia from…you, come to think of it.

The fact that you spend a majority of your PWI time slamming the US and 0% of it doing the same to your homeland leaves me little choice but to believe that the Land the the Anschluss must also be the land of milk and honey.[/quote]

Yeah I could see why a country where you cannot be kidnapped and tortured by the executive branch might look like paradise.

Our strict no children fondling policy at our airports might also work wonders.

Well, no adult fondling either, come to think of it. The Austrian army, keeping us free with much less effort, the paragon of military achievement.

Heroes, all of them.

But, dont be deceived, living in a budding police state every semi civilized nation would look utopian to you.
[/quote]

Damn, Push, where the HELL do you live?

That sounds positively terrible.

Thank god the US isn’t anything like that!

(Though I do hear that there are some internet-educated foreigners who fantasize about such things…) [/quote]

I will refrain from posting that overused “when they came for me” poem.

But yeah, when they come for you, you were there when the stage was set.
[/quote]

Ah, Orion, my friend(?).

You 1) drastically underestimate the American people, 2) drastically underestimate just how freaking huge and diverse the US is, and 3) have no realistic appreciation for what comes with being arguably the world’s most powerful (or at least influential) country.

I’ll ask again: How much time do you have actually being IN this “budding police state” to which you so knowledgably refer? [/quote]

is he talking about America, or is he being nostalgic about Austria in the 1930’s.

(to Orion):

the “when they came for me” poem was about YOUR countrymen, bud.

Don’t forget it.

78

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:

This will be a shocker, but what happens if we leave other countries and mind our own business? Can we just leave a given country alone until we are attacked first?

[/quote]

What country/group is the United States waging war against that has NOT attacked it first? Don’t bother.

80

Hey Sex Machine, what I find funny is we took our base out of Saudi Arabia, and they still attack us.

These bastards will use any reason to do so.

Ask the Israelis. For every concession they made, Gaza, Lebanon, ect, what did they get in return? Peace? No more attacks, more rockets. The Palestinians now bitch about living behind walls, walls created to prevent their current leaders from slaughtering innocent people with suicide attacks. And mind you these attacks were talking place during PEACE TALKS! !

There can be no peace with these people.

as Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel once stated ? ? when someone says they want to kill you, believe them? …

and once they do, you can never change their minds.