Investing in Schools Creates More Than Twice as Many Jobs as Military Spending

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Parents are not getting paid to put up with their kids.

What about Justin Bieber’s parents?[/quote]

They raised a no-talent asshole, who by 20 will be fucked-upper than Courtney Love. I would like to slap the shit out of them for unleashing that horrible, unlistenable, garbage that’s tried to be passed of at music.
I may be old fashion, but I generally like my music to be played on musical instruments.

I guess if I could get paid millions digitizing my voice and singing along with computer generated sounds, I’d do it too…For a little while. After that I would disappear when I am rich enough.

When I was a kid, parents didn’t like our music because it was rebellious and said shit they didn’t like. I hate the kids music of today because it has no soul, no spirit whatsoever. I hate computer generated ‘music’.
They can sing about fucking and doing drugs all they want, just play an instrument, at least a kazoo or something.

42

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

But he always said that he got into teaching because of the free time.

No shame in that.[/quote]

No shame at all. Man I wish I could do that–one of my priorities is travel and climbing (rock climbing), and I do not have time at all to do that. I would almost kill for a job where I could even take 6 weeks off in a row to go do that while getting paid let alone 2-3 months. It’s all about priorities, and there’s no shame in saying my priority is travel and flexibility or anybody elses. Hell, mine IS…I just don’t have either right now :(. There are experiences you will never be able to get any other way, and that’s priceless.

I understand what you’re saying and I agree with you. However, you should also understand what DB is saying. There are a bunch of teachers that complain true, but not everybody. And there’s a difference between really complaining and wanting people to know that it’s not as easy as they think. I get this particularly because of my past jobs in the bar industry. People constantly would say “man, this must be the easiest job in the world–you get hot girls hitting on you all the time and you get to punch douchebags. How much pussy do you get dude?? Seriously?”

Well aside from the fact that nothing they said was true, they don’t see what’s happening. Differences being myriad–there’s a reason I tip service people generously and it has nothing to do with me being scared they’re going to spit in my drink/food. You have no idea what we had to put up with. And we didn’t get to hit people…i wish, that would have made life infinitely easier to just stomp guys out of the bar. Hell, I was the general manager of a multi-million dollar bar for a bit–salaried–worst job ever. Ok, not really, but people have no idea what goes into that sort of work beyond when they show up and you toss them a beer from tap. No idea of the pressure and problems that can–and did–happen on a daily basis, potentially costing us 10s of thousands of dollars if they’re not fixed just right on the fly in rush hour, and that was as a bartender not even GM. Run through work and I’d get home at 4 am and have to peel my shirt off cuz it was sweaty as hell.

All the customers see is “their” weekend beers and me flirting with girls or being the “cooler” that gets shit done–it’s their weekend, so that’s how they think of it. I hadn’t had a saturday off in like 6 months. You know how crappy it is to have monday and tuesday as your “weekend”?? Everybody is working and nobody wants to do shit.

So yeah, I mean hey bar work and door work is pretty entry level in the grand scheme of things and I get that (remember I also have a masters in biochem), but 99% of people have no idea of the stress that even door guys or barkeeps can deal with or the hustle required in a busy night. Not to mention GMship is only a job people THINK they want til they get it. So I get where DB is coming from, and skeptics should too. A lot of my cousins are teachers in the midwest plains as well.

I think you guys should meet in the middle and both give up some ground here (remember DB I want more money for teachers). There are perks to teaching that I think should adjust the salary downward, but there is a lot you don’t see either Lama buddy.

43

[quote]pat wrote:

And nobody gets paid enough to put up with another kids shit day-in and day-out. Then you got idiot parents who thinks their little angels walk water can do no wrong and are the smartest kids in the world.
“No, my Jimmy would never stab another kid in the eye with a pencil, there must be something wrong with the way you run the classroom.”

“Well, he does math perfect at home. And I don’t know what you are talking about his reading, why he just read Macbeth at home! The ‘Cat in the Hat’ is to easy so he must not have been trying cause he’s to smart for it.”

Here’s an example that really happened. Dad takes kid to school with a 103.3 degree fever, clinic calls him. Dad says “He’s fine, he’s just teething”. Your fucking kid is teething at 7? Kid actually had strep.

Parents send their kids to school with lice, ring worm, the stomach flu, any other kind of flu you can imagine, pouring green snot out of their nose with a fever and calls it allergies…that lasts for 6 weeks. Kids have barfed in the car on the way to school and the parents drop them off anyway.

Teachers don’t get paid enough for the shit they have to put up with.[/quote]

Damn straight. That sounds like it comes directly from my cousins (teachers) lol.

And remember–we tie their hands with red tape because we’re afraid of the school getting sued if anything goes wrong even if it’s not the fault of the staff.

There’s a reason I don’t have the patience to teach anything under college level. In college if you fuck up, you get fucked and you don’t get to do a damn thing about it–welcome to life son! Shoulda done your work like I told you. In k-12 not only can that turn into an epic storm of litigation (and has before), but the teacher can’t do what they need to do in some cases to smack a student back into line because of the litigation fear…not to mention that they have to teach subjects just “so” and the red tape in how they’re allowed to teach subjects regarding methodology and other things is unbelievable.

Hamstring them, then complain when results suck.

44

Not a teacher myself but I have a parent who was one. Something that has been touched on indirectly here is the role of the home in promoting a quality education. The best students come from an environment where school doesn’t end with the bell-they take their homework seriously and are willing to put in the extra effort at home to achieve high marks. All too often parents will let their kids get away with murder and then blame the teacher for failing them, when in actuality the fault lies with them. My parent routinely had parents chew them out for their children not performing in the classroom, despite the fact that it was blatantly obvious there was no studying going on at home.

I think this is one of the major reasons why homeschooling can be so effective: the parents are directly involved in the education and know exactly what is going on. The illusion of the perfect child is shattered. However, I still believe that the most effective method for overall development is public schooling in combination with engaged parents/guardians. Public education, IMO, ensures that you will (to the best extent of your district) have exposure to a good amount of diversity (socio-economic class, race, sexual orientation, etc) on a day to day basis, and an engaged home ensures you will milk that education for everything it’s worth (which will vary based on location as well sadly). While this exposure can be achieved in a private/home setting as well, I believe it is most naturally achieved in a public system.

I may be biased as this was my experience, but from my personal sample size of 1 (and from general observations of others in college who had different experiences) this seems to work well.

Also, I can say confidently that a large part of the reason I did not go into teaching was the perception I have of the salary based on what my parent experienced. Real or not, this is a serious hurdle in attracting the best and brightest to the profession.

45

I’m sorry if it got misconstrued that I don’t think teachers work hard…they do.

But I also think that there is just as much, if not more good that bad.

46

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Parents are not getting paid to put up with their kids.

What about Justin Bieber’s parents?[/quote]

They raised a no-talent asshole, who by 20 will be fucked-upper than Courtney Love. I would like to slap the shit out of them for unleashing that horrible, unlistenable, garbage that’s tried to be passed of at music.
I may be old fashion, but I generally like my music to be played on musical instruments.

I guess if I could get paid millions digitizing my voice and singing along with computer generated sounds, I’d do it too…For a little while. After that I would disappear when I am rich enough.

When I was a kid, parents didn’t like our music because it was rebellious and said shit they didn’t like. I hate the kids music of today because it has no soul, no spirit whatsoever. I hate computer generated ‘music’.
They can sing about fucking and doing drugs all they want, just play an instrument, at least a kazoo or something.[/quote]

Jesus Christ. We’re finding all sorts of things that we agree on this thread!

47

Yes, teachers work hard. Just like everybody else. I cant remember the last time i put in an actual 40 hour week, and the same goes for all of my peers.

Teachers dont have a monopoly on hard work or extra hours, so get off the cross.

You DO however have a monopoly on a summer vacation. So yes, you do work less than anyone else total because of that schnazy little vaca.

And lets face it, you coasted through college. I dated a lot of teachers - they were easy - and I recall one complaining about her work load because she had to make a poster board. A god damn poster board. I built functioning electromechanical systems in undergrad, but her workload is hard because of a poster board. And that carries right into the whole “hard work” and “extra hours” crap.

you arent special, get over it.

48

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

But he always said that he got into teaching because of the free time.

No shame in that.[/quote]

No shame at all. Man I wish I could do that–one of my priorities is travel and climbing (rock climbing), and I do not have time at all to do that. I would almost kill for a job where I could even take 6 weeks off in a row to go do that while getting paid let alone 2-3 months. It’s all about priorities, and there’s no shame in saying my priority is travel and flexibility or anybody elses. Hell, mine IS…I just don’t have either right now :(. There are experiences you will never be able to get any other way, and that’s priceless.

I understand what you’re saying and I agree with you. However, you should also understand what DB is saying. There are a bunch of teachers that complain true, but not everybody. And there’s a difference between really complaining and wanting people to know that it’s not as easy as they think. I get this particularly because of my past jobs in the bar industry. People constantly would say “man, this must be the easiest job in the world–you get hot girls hitting on you all the time and you get to punch douchebags. How much pussy do you get dude?? Seriously?”

Well aside from the fact that nothing they said was true, they don’t see what’s happening. Differences being myriad–there’s a reason I tip service people generously and it has nothing to do with me being scared they’re going to spit in my drink/food. You have no idea what we had to put up with. And we didn’t get to hit people…i wish, that would have made life infinitely easier to just stomp guys out of the bar. Hell, I was the general manager of a multi-million dollar bar for a bit–salaried–worst job ever. Ok, not really, but people have no idea what goes into that sort of work beyond when they show up and you toss them a beer from tap. No idea of the pressure and problems that can–and did–happen on a daily basis, potentially costing us 10s of thousands of dollars if they’re not fixed just right on the fly in rush hour, and that was as a bartender not even GM. Run through work and I’d get home at 4 am and have to peel my shirt off cuz it was sweaty as hell.

All the customers see is “their” weekend beers and me flirting with girls or being the “cooler” that gets shit done–it’s their weekend, so that’s how they think of it. I hadn’t had a saturday off in like 6 months. You know how crappy it is to have monday and tuesday as your “weekend”?? Everybody is working and nobody wants to do shit.

So yeah, I mean hey bar work and door work is pretty entry level in the grand scheme of things and I get that (remember I also have a masters in biochem), but 99% of people have no idea of the stress that even door guys or barkeeps can deal with or the hustle required in a busy night. Not to mention GMship is only a job people THINK they want til they get it. So I get where DB is coming from, and skeptics should too. A lot of my cousins are teachers in the midwest plains as well.

I think you guys should meet in the middle and both give up some ground here (remember DB I want more money for teachers). There are perks to teaching that I think should adjust the salary downward, but there is a lot you don’t see either Lama buddy.[/quote]

I understand where UtahLama is coming from and he is right in many respects. It is definitely nice having more time off than most people I know. The benefits are great as well.

But the problem I have is when people say they got into teaching for the free time, like Utah’s friend in Las Vegas. THAT is the attitude that needs to be eradicated from the teaching profession. It’s one of the biggest reasons, aside from the students’ lack of motivation, that the public school systems aren’t performing up to snuff.

If you get into teaching for anything other than to instill in youth the power of education and all the personal responsibilities that come with it, I’m sorry, but you are in the wrong profession. I’m sure that Utah’s friend is a good teacher and knows his shit and all that, but let’s be realistic here. Unless he’s the one person in the entire teaching profession who is so good at what he does that he doesn’t need to do anything to change his methods, he should be investing more time in the summer and the other time off he has to get better as a teacher. There is no profession in the world where you can realistically sit there and say that you don’t need to get any better at it, that you’ve reached the absolute maximum potential that you’ll ever have. And when it comes to something as powerful as educating an entire generation of Americans, teachers bear the responsibility to improve at their craft more than any other.

Now, a large part of that sort of laissez-faire attitude is the whole tenure system and the teachers’ unions, both of which are complete bullshit. But teachers need to understand at the outset of their careers that they are asking a lot of their students when they hold them to the highest standards possible, which all teachers should do. They should expect their students to put in whatever effort it takes to achieve the best grades possible and to utilize their time in school to the best of their abilities. How many teachers tell their students to just stop learning entirely once summer vacation hits, or to do absolutely no studying or learning over the weekend or during Spring Break or during three-day weekends? None of them do. No teacher worth even half his salary would sit there and tell a student that it’s okay to just shut down and do nothing to continue the learning process over the summer.

So why do so many teachers do exactly that once summer starts?

Teachers should be paid more. I’ve already made clear my reasons for that. But at the same time, they should also be held to a much higher standard by the districts, the universities that produce them and, ultimately, themselves. If all teachers were to do so, we’d all have a much better leg to stand on when it comes to demanding more pay.

49

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:
Yes, teachers work hard. Just like everybody else. I cant remember the last time i put in an actual 40 hour week, and the same goes for all of my peers.

Teachers dont have a monopoly on hard work or extra hours, so get off the cross.

You DO however have a monopoly on a summer vacation. So yes, you do work less than anyone else total because of that schnazy little vaca.

And lets face it, you coasted through college. I dated a lot of teachers - they were easy - and I recall one complaining about her work load because she had to make a poster board. A god damn poster board. I built functioning machines in undergrad, but her workload is hard because of a poster board. And that carries right into the whole “hard work” and “extra hours” crap.

you arent special, get over it.[/quote]

Don’t lump the dumb sluts you were clever enough to trick into sleeping with you into the teacher crowd. You were probably dating the ones who focused on the degree pathway that sets them up to teach 2nd grade or some bullshit like that. I attended Pepperdine and then transferred to Chico State my senior year and saw chicks like that at each school since a couple of my classes had some of those types in them. Those are the types of students that graduate and then substitute for a year or so while they figure out what they want to do in life until they get knocked up. Most of them don’t even end up teaching at all. I didn’t see a single one of them in any of my teaching credential classes.

50

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I’m sorry if it got misconstrued that I don’t think teachers work hard…they do.

But I also think that there is just as much, if not more good that bad.[/quote]

That’s fair, that wasn’t what I was implying. Just letting you know I think DB is right insofar as there’s lots of stuff we don’t see or account for in the job and that GOOD teachers take it on the chin. Middle ground here somewhere.

Incidentally your point about summer and whatnot is also one big reason I want tons of performance accountability and to kill the unions. That’s a premium set-up and works as a major incentive for people to come into the job, sort of like a replacement for surgeon’s pay. So I think more money gives a much much better talent pool, but you have got to have the same sort of engineering/research/medical performance standards and accountability to balance that. Otherwise you will make the problem much worse with only half the equation (I mean come on, what lazy ass wouldn’t want a job with a) more money b) summer months off AND c) very little chance of being fired after unionizing? Recipe for complacency. If you want performance you have to reward it but also hold people accountable for it)

51

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:
Yes, teachers work hard. Just like everybody else. I cant remember the last time i put in an actual 40 hour week, and the same goes for all of my peers.

Teachers dont have a monopoly on hard work or extra hours, so get off the cross.

You DO however have a monopoly on a summer vacation. So yes, you do work less than anyone else total because of that schnazy little vaca.

And lets face it, you coasted through college. I dated a lot of teachers - they were easy - and I recall one complaining about her work load because she had to make a poster board. A god damn poster board. I built functioning electromechanical systems in undergrad, but her workload is hard because of a poster board. And that carries right into the whole “hard work” and “extra hours” crap.

you arent special, get over it.[/quote]

Hey man no argument from me–you’re looking at a guy who spent all his time in the books or in lab while the education students were out partying. To this day I still have a damned hard time not verbally ripping someone a new asshole when they complain about work in education degree programs.

But lets be honest–To fix education you need better teachers on a wide scale (not that there aren’t a lot of good ones out there now), and that comes with more money and more accountability. Also if we’re being honest we are currently expecting a lot from teachers but also simultaneously hamstringing them. There’s a lot that people don’t see happening behind the scenes if you’re a teacher.

52

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

But he always said that he got into teaching because of the free time.

No shame in that.[/quote]

No shame at all. Man I wish I could do that–one of my priorities is travel and climbing (rock climbing), and I do not have time at all to do that. I would almost kill for a job where I could even take 6 weeks off in a row to go do that while getting paid let alone 2-3 months. It’s all about priorities, and there’s no shame in saying my priority is travel and flexibility or anybody elses. Hell, mine IS…I just don’t have either right now :(. There are experiences you will never be able to get any other way, and that’s priceless.

I understand what you’re saying and I agree with you. However, you should also understand what DB is saying. There are a bunch of teachers that complain true, but not everybody. And there’s a difference between really complaining and wanting people to know that it’s not as easy as they think. I get this particularly because of my past jobs in the bar industry. People constantly would say “man, this must be the easiest job in the world–you get hot girls hitting on you all the time and you get to punch douchebags. How much pussy do you get dude?? Seriously?”

Well aside from the fact that nothing they said was true, they don’t see what’s happening. Differences being myriad–there’s a reason I tip service people generously and it has nothing to do with me being scared they’re going to spit in my drink/food. You have no idea what we had to put up with. And we didn’t get to hit people…i wish, that would have made life infinitely easier to just stomp guys out of the bar. Hell, I was the general manager of a multi-million dollar bar for a bit–salaried–worst job ever. Ok, not really, but people have no idea what goes into that sort of work beyond when they show up and you toss them a beer from tap. No idea of the pressure and problems that can–and did–happen on a daily basis, potentially costing us 10s of thousands of dollars if they’re not fixed just right on the fly in rush hour, and that was as a bartender not even GM. Run through work and I’d get home at 4 am and have to peel my shirt off cuz it was sweaty as hell.

All the customers see is “their” weekend beers and me flirting with girls or being the “cooler” that gets shit done–it’s their weekend, so that’s how they think of it. I hadn’t had a saturday off in like 6 months. You know how crappy it is to have monday and tuesday as your “weekend”?? Everybody is working and nobody wants to do shit.

So yeah, I mean hey bar work and door work is pretty entry level in the grand scheme of things and I get that (remember I also have a masters in biochem), but 99% of people have no idea of the stress that even door guys or barkeeps can deal with or the hustle required in a busy night. Not to mention GMship is only a job people THINK they want til they get it. So I get where DB is coming from, and skeptics should too. A lot of my cousins are teachers in the midwest plains as well.

I think you guys should meet in the middle and both give up some ground here (remember DB I want more money for teachers). There are perks to teaching that I think should adjust the salary downward, but there is a lot you don’t see either Lama buddy.[/quote]

I understand where UtahLama is coming from and he is right in many respects. It is definitely nice having more time off than most people I know. The benefits are great as well.

But the problem I have is when people say they got into teaching for the free time, like Utah’s friend in Las Vegas. THAT is the attitude that needs to be eradicated from the teaching profession. It’s one of the biggest reasons, aside from the students’ lack of motivation, that the public school systems aren’t performing up to snuff.

If you get into teaching for anything other than to instill in youth the power of education and all the personal responsibilities that come with it, I’m sorry, but you are in the wrong profession. I’m sure that Utah’s friend is a good teacher and knows his shit and all that, but let’s be realistic here. Unless he’s the one person in the entire teaching profession who is so good at what he does that he doesn’t need to do anything to change his methods, he should be investing more time in the summer and the other time off he has to get better as a teacher. There is no profession in the world where you can realistically sit there and say that you don’t need to get any better at it, that you’ve reached the absolute maximum potential that you’ll ever have. And when it comes to something as powerful as educating an entire generation of Americans, teachers bear the responsibility to improve at their craft more than any other.

Now, a large part of that sort of laissez-faire attitude is the whole tenure system and the teachers’ unions, both of which are complete bullshit. But teachers need to understand at the outset of their careers that they are asking a lot of their students when they hold them to the highest standards possible, which all teachers should do. They should expect their students to put in whatever effort it takes to achieve the best grades possible and to utilize their time in school to the best of their abilities. How many teachers tell their students to just stop learning entirely once summer vacation hits, or to do absolutely no studying or learning over the weekend or during Spring Break or during three-day weekends? None of them do. No teacher worth even half his salary would sit there and tell a student that it’s okay to just shut down and do nothing to continue the learning process over the summer.

So why do so many teachers do exactly that once summer starts?

Teachers should be paid more. I’ve already made clear my reasons for that. But at the same time, they should also be held to a much higher standard by the districts, the universities that produce them and, ultimately, themselves. If all teachers were to do so, we’d all have a much better leg to stand on when it comes to demanding more pay.[/quote]

soooo…what you’re saying is we pretty much entirely agree? haha.

I agree with pretty much everything except a couple statements. Your comment about getting into it for free time is pretty true, but let’s be honest: a lot of the reasons ANYBODY picks any career path is based on their goals and priorities, and they’re not going to be altruistic. I know a guy–known for years as a buddy–who’s teaching in one of the top public districts in the nation. It’s one I was lucky enough to grow up in, and routinely sends people to top level universities on full-ride NHS scholarships etc etc etc. Basically it has its problems but the education quality kicks ass.

Anyway he got into the field precisely because of what Utah and I mentioned. And guess what? He’s a great teacher. Teaching sciences in high school (can’t remember what all, but biology is part of it). Great reviews, good performances from students.

So, just like not all doctors go into the field because they want to heal people–some want the money, or the prestige, or the challenge even, which are very selfish priorities–not everybody goes to teaching because they have altruistic priorities. That doesn’t mean they are bad teachers or that they don’t work hard, just like the guy who goes into med school or mechanical engineering or computer science for the paycheck or whatever selfish goals isn’t necessarily going to suck.

It’s just human nature. The other comment about summer is true in the same fashion. Should it happen? Probly not. Does it? Damn straight. Will it continue to happen no matter what even among good teachers? Yes. Can you do anything about it? Nope.

Solution to both your problems is exactly what you and I have both said: de-unionize, better pay, and MORE ACCOUNTABILITY for performance. Especially that last one.

53

[quote]pat wrote:
Schools need money right now. Good teachers are losing their jobs, and classrooms are getting to full.
If we ceded control of our education to the government we at least need to make sure its properly funded and functioning correctly. Community and parental involvement in a school is way more important and make more of a difference than any educational policy. Crappy community, crappy schools. Good communities, good schools.[/quote]

Good teachers are losing jobs because states are too willing to cut the education budgets first. Here in California we put every bill up for a vote and they all make it regardless of whether there’s room in the budget to pay for them.

I think schools need involvement way more than they need money. And not just the involvement of parents who scream when their kids get a “C” and demand they get a “B”. They need role models in the classroom aside from the teachers, they need volunteers in the classes to help drive home discipline and to help answer questions. They also need support once the kids go home. But let’s be honest, nothing is going to change anytime soon.

james

54

The solution is parents actually taking an interest in their children’s education and expecting them to do well. The school system is not there to raise your damn kids.

55

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

And nobody gets paid enough to put up with another kids shit day-in and day-out. Then you got idiot parents who thinks their little angels walk water can do no wrong and are the smartest kids in the world.
“No, my Jimmy would never stab another kid in the eye with a pencil, there must be something wrong with the way you run the classroom.”

“Well, he does math perfect at home. And I don’t know what you are talking about his reading, why he just read Macbeth at home! The ‘Cat in the Hat’ is to easy so he must not have been trying cause he’s to smart for it.”

Here’s an example that really happened. Dad takes kid to school with a 103.3 degree fever, clinic calls him. Dad says “He’s fine, he’s just teething”. Your fucking kid is teething at 7? Kid actually had strep.

Parents send their kids to school with lice, ring worm, the stomach flu, any other kind of flu you can imagine, pouring green snot out of their nose with a fever and calls it allergies…that lasts for 6 weeks. Kids have barfed in the car on the way to school and the parents drop them off anyway.

Teachers don’t get paid enough for the shit they have to put up with.[/quote]

Damn straight. That sounds like it comes directly from my cousins (teachers) lol.

And remember–we tie their hands with red tape because we’re afraid of the school getting sued if anything goes wrong even if it’s not the fault of the staff.

There’s a reason I don’t have the patience to teach anything under college level. In college if you fuck up, you get fucked and you don’t get to do a damn thing about it–welcome to life son! Shoulda done your work like I told you. In k-12 not only can that turn into an epic storm of litigation (and has before), but the teacher can’t do what they need to do in some cases to smack a student back into line because of the litigation fear…not to mention that they have to teach subjects just “so” and the red tape in how they’re allowed to teach subjects regarding methodology and other things is unbelievable.

Hamstring them, then complain when results suck. [/quote]

I have been in that classroom and I don’t know how my wife does it. I couldn’t stand it for 2 hours before I had a kid up against the wall by the neck saying “If you don’t shut the fuck up right now and sit your stupid ass in your seat, I am going to flush your head in the toilet.”

Like I said, it’s the parents, particularly moms, that are the worst though. They will excuse their kids for anything. Their little angels are super-human incapable of fault. Their kids are the smartest, most well behaved people on earth and if they do something wrong it’s always somebody else’s fault.

The fact that they get 2 months off is no big deal to me. They need the break.

56

[quote]Bauber wrote:
The solution is parents actually taking an interest in their children’s education and expecting them to do well. The school system is not there to raise your damn kids.[/quote]

Yep, a lot of parents treat the school like a day care center. Kids get sick all the time because other parents see fit to send their sick-ass kids to school rather than keep them home like they should. Inevitably, they make everybody else sick. Assholes.
That shit pisses me off to no end. It’s biological warfare. Making other people sick because you are to damn lazy to be a parent is just wrong on so many levels.

57

[quote]pat wrote:
Yep, a lot of parents treat the school like a day care center. Kids get sick all the time because other parents see fit to send their sick-ass kids to school rather than keep them home like they should. Inevitably, they make everybody else sick. Assholes.
That shit pisses me off to no end. It’s biological warfare. Making other people sick because you are to damn lazy to be a parent is just wrong on so many levels. [/quote]

If both parents are working how do they keep a kid with a cold home? And kids get sick all the time. If they stayed home with every sniffle then they would never be in school.

james

58

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Yep, a lot of parents treat the school like a day care center. Kids get sick all the time because other parents see fit to send their sick-ass kids to school rather than keep them home like they should. Inevitably, they make everybody else sick. Assholes.
That shit pisses me off to no end. It’s biological warfare. Making other people sick because you are to damn lazy to be a parent is just wrong on so many levels. [/quote]

If both parents are working how do they keep a kid with a cold home? And kids get sick all the time. If they stayed home with every sniffle then they would never be in school.

james[/quote]

If it’s just sniffle, no big deal most of the time. But it’s not just a sniffle a lot of times. Many times a kid will vomit before school, clearly having the noravirus, and they drop the kid off at school. Fevers over 101, kids get dropped off. Parents are treating it like a day\infirmary because they work. But you have to take care of your kids. I get both parents working, but we always find a way to make it work. We’re not going to send our kid to school when they are sick.

You really have to go no further then to analyze the instances of sickness at school versus other places. Schools are a disease pit and they are that way because parents send their kids to school sick as hell all the time.
That’s why flus and stomach viruses run rampant at schools. It’s why lice is a big problem at schools.

You are a parent first, not an employee first. When you get your priorities out of whack, then you cause problems not only for your poor miserable kid, but for others as well whom they make sick.

If your kid just has a little cold and no fever, well it’s a judgement call then. The problem with that is kids are nasty. They don’t cover their mouths when they cough, they let snot run down their faces then wipe it with their hands and then go touch everything with out washing their hands and stuff.
The problem with that is that what may be a little cold for one kid, can turn into pneumonia for another.

It pisses me off because these little fuck-sticks come in sick, then get my wife sick which in turn gets me sick. 90% of the time when I have gotten ill, it’s because some asshole sent their kid to school sick.
Or they come and rub their nastiness on my wife’s clothes, she doesn’t get sick, but then I do the laundry, touch the snot and then I get sick…Assholes.

59

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
The solution is parents actually taking an interest in their children’s education and expecting them to do well. The school system is not there to raise your damn kids.[/quote]

Yep, a lot of parents treat the school like a day care center. Kids get sick all the time because other parents see fit to send their sick-ass kids to school rather than keep them home like they should. Inevitably, they make everybody else sick. Assholes.
That shit pisses me off to no end. It’s biological warfare. Making other people sick because you are to damn lazy to be a parent is just wrong on so many levels. [/quote]

Or what is really awesome is when I am driving back from class just after noon and see droves of kids have just left school and are walking home because they have gotten their free beakfast and lunch. Got my free shit mayne so SCHOOL IS OVER. Education is a lot about what the individual puts in to it as to what they get out of it. If you are in a culture or area that doesn’t champion education, most of the kids are going to do poorly regardless of the amount of money spent.

Me personally with as big as a failure as our public school system has become; I don’t want any more of my tax dollars going to it.

60

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
Yep, a lot of parents treat the school like a day care center. Kids get sick all the time because other parents see fit to send their sick-ass kids to school rather than keep them home like they should. Inevitably, they make everybody else sick. Assholes.
That shit pisses me off to no end. It’s biological warfare. Making other people sick because you are to damn lazy to be a parent is just wrong on so many levels. [/quote]

If both parents are working how do they keep a kid with a cold home? And kids get sick all the time. If they stayed home with every sniffle then they would never be in school.

james[/quote]
In some schools that’s a big if. Not just the work part but there being two parents around. I often think that whenever the question of failing education comes up we are lumping every school together. If you took the inner city schools, and whatever their rural counterparts would be, out of the equation I imagine that American schools are not doing as poorly as we think. I went to school in the suburbs. I worked in schools in various ghettos (I even lived in the ghetto so it’s OK for me to use that word. My daughter went to school in the ghetto before we moved to the suburbs. I have seen both worlds, from different angles and they really are two different worlds. You want to fix these under performing schools? Fix the surrounding community. Garbage in, garbage out.

I taught in the inner city and I realized it was not for me because you end up facing a moment of truth so to speak. You get to the point where you can lie to kids and act like things are not as bad as they seem or you can tell them the truth. The truth being that, for most of them, everything their parent(s) tells them is wrong. That their parents are bad examples to follow. How do you do it? You can’t. The schools won’t let you. When a kid is using horrible English and you correct him and he responds that is how his mother speaks, what do you say? That his mother doesn’t speak properly? How do you tell a kid that he needs to do the right thing to avoid being some loser in jail when he has family members in jail? How do you talk about getting a job so you don’t need to depend on welfare (implying welfare is bad) when the kid’s family is on welfare?