Introduction and First Cycle

Pharma / TRT
1

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Hi all,

I couldn’t find a proper place to introduce myself, but I’d like to combine my introduction to the forum with my request for some possible advice.

I’ve already read quite a lot of articles from this website, so I thought it would be time to join the forum to seek more information.

Some quick stats about me:
Height: 5 feet and 10 inches or 178cm
Weight: 177lbs or 80,5kg
Years of training: 3 years
Age: 21

I’m training according to the following plan:
Monday: Full-body (only the big 4 and some pull ups)
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Delts, traps and hamstrings
Thursday: Back, triceps
Friday: Legs exclusive hamstrings
Saturday: Chest, biceps
Sunday: Rest

My cardio is about 10-15km a riding by bike to the Univerity, so that covers my cardiovascular and stamina maintenance. At the moment I’m bulking so to say at the moment. I’ve finished my cutting period in december 2014 and I’ve been increasing my kcal from then until now, until I will gain weight. Still looking for my sweet spot, so I’ll keep upping kcal until I gain weight again, will keeping my bodyfat% in check, hopefully.

I eat 4600-4800kcal on trainingsdays (high protein, high carb, moderate fat) and on rest days I try to avoid cardio and reduce my kcal intake according to my lower activity level, based on my past experiences and eat 3500-4000kcal on restdays (high protein, low-moderate carb, high fat).

My best 1RM’s from last year @ 88kg bw:
Bench press: 120kg
Overhead press: 80kg
Squat: 155kg
Deadlift: 220kg

I will post some more pictures of my physique later on.

The last 3 years I’ve trained natural and I’m thinking about starting my first AAS cycle to take it to the next level.

I was thinking about running a test-only so see what AAS does for me and how it goes.
Test-only
Week 1-12: test-e @ 250mg every 3,5day (500mg/weekly)
Week 1-14): hCG @ 250iu every other day (875mg/weekly) or 3 x 250iu per week
Week 15-18: Nolvadex (tamoxifen) @ 20mg every day

Hoping for some reactions from you guys.
Cheers, iron addicts.

2

Thank you for the proper post, I wish more people would make a first cycle post like this.

Cycle looks good.

Stop the hcg 4-5 days before pct. I’d also get some adex or aromasin to run on cycle.

Pct looks good Id extend it out to 6 weeks though and run a low dose AI through pct, stopping one week after the Nolva.

Other than that everything looks good, by your pic you seem to have your diet and training in order. Good luck and have fun

3

Just have to say thats an impressive build for your age.

Not many young guys have established a foundation like this. This is a prime example of what hard work looks like before AAS should be introduced.

Pretty excited to see your accomplishments bud! And welcome. A lot of good guys here. Hang around for a bit.

4

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Thank you for the proper post, I wish more people would make a first cycle post like this.

Cycle looks good.

Stop the hcg 4-5 days before pct. I’d also get some adex or aromasin to run on cycle.

Pct looks good Id extend it out to 6 weeks though and run a low dose AI through pct, stopping one week after the Nolva.

Other than that everything looks good, by your pic you seem to have your diet and training in order. Good luck and have fun[/quote]

Thanks BUD for your reply, I think it just a win-win to help the people that are willing to reply to provide them with sufficient information about the topic starter. It should help me and of course the people that are willing to help me. I thank you for that.

I see indeed that a lot of guys running an AI on cycle, but my thoughts for not running an AI directly from the start was to see if I am “sensitive” to symptoms of too much estrogen, such as water retention etc.

Of course I’m keeping an AI such as Arimidex or Aromasin nearby to introduce it to my cycle when I get symptoms of too much estrogen for example gyno.
I’d use arimidex @ 0.25-0,5mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts) or 12.5-25mg every day.

Good that you say that about the hCG, you’re probably saying that, because of the half time of hCG that should be around 5 days, right? Thanks for the tip. I will implement it.

Could you explain why you would go for 6 weeks PCT instead of 4? I’ve always thought that 1/3 time on cycle would be enough to get your HPG axis going again.

About my training, diet:
I’ve always tried to eat healthy while training, only 1 weekly junkmeal and the rest of my diet contains “clean” food so to say. Only during my vacations I get a bit more loose and eat some more junk, damage control so to say.

I must admit though that I sometimes have a hard time eating 5000kcal of healthy, clean food, but I am still able to do that. It helps me feel good while training and living in general and that is a very important factor for me why I try to eat healthy. I just feel that I get way better results by doing that and I feel a lot better also.

5

[quote]ChrisArm wrote:
Just have to say thats an impressive build for your age.

Not many young guys have established a foundation like this. This is a prime example of what hard work looks like before AAS should be introduced.

Pretty excited to see your accomplishments bud! And welcome. A lot of good guys here. Hang around for a bit. [/quote]

Thanks, ChrisArm.

I’ve always felt that I must strive to be better in everything what I do (also bodybuilding). Logging my training, taking measurements from my physique, monitoring bodyfat, bodyweight, logging my food and especially making pictures of my physique and trying to make every rep count. This all helped me a lot by obtaining the physique that I currently have. I’ve always felt that evaluating yourself and asking myself why am I doing the thing that I’m currently doing, brought me so much further than any specific dietplan or trainingplan.

And of course having a lot of fun along the way, there is no way that you could stick to this lifestyle without loving it, I think.

6

[quote]ChrisArm wrote:
Just have to say thats an impressive build for your age.

Not many young guys have established a foundation like this. This is a prime example of what hard work looks like before AAS should be introduced.

Pretty excited to see your accomplishments bud! And welcome. A lot of good guys here. Hang around for a bit. [/quote]

Agreed.

7

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]ChrisArm wrote:
Just have to say thats an impressive build for your age.

Not many young guys have established a foundation like this. This is a prime example of what hard work looks like before AAS should be introduced.

Pretty excited to see your accomplishments bud! And welcome. A lot of good guys here. Hang around for a bit. [/quote]

Agreed.
[/quote]

kid looks better than I do now! Haha

8

Thanks for the kind words, gents.

More people with any advice or an opinion about my cycle?

Maybe a note of interest I’m also running blood work, pre - and post-cycle.
Haemoglobin (Hb)
Haematocrit
ASAT
ALAT
gamma-GT
Urea
Creatinine
Triglycerides
HDL
LDL
Total cholesterol
TSH, T4
CK
Testosterone
Free testestosteron
SHBG
LH
FSH
E2

I’ve also read that some people have IGF-1 in their bloodwork list, but I’m unsure what the value of that would be. The only thing I can make up is that those people would like to check if their hGH or IGF-1 they’re using is doing the work what it should. I have no intentions to do yet, so I won’t include IGF-1 in my regular blood work I suppose.

Any thoughts on it from you guys?

9

and he’s getting bloodwork pre-cycle! I think I’m in love

10

[quote]Yogi wrote:
and he’s getting bloodwork pre-cycle! I think I’m in love[/quote]

Hehe, cheers, bro.

Always tried to keep myself healthy. Blood work is a must for that so monitor stuff more objective than just “feeling good” on cylce and especially post-cycle.

Of course, blood work is not cheap, but going out each weekend is also not cheap :slight_smile:

11

[quote]Iron Mind X wrote:
Hi all,

I couldn’t find a proper place to introduce myself, but I’d like to combine my introduction to the forum with my request for some possible advice.

I’ve already read quite a lot of articles from this website, so I thought it would be time to join the forum to seek more information.

Some quick stats about me:
Height: 5 feet and 10 inches or 178cm
Weight: 177lbs or 80,5kg
Years of training: 3 years
Age: 21

I’m training according to the following plan:
Monday: Full-body (only the big 4 and some pull ups)
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Delts, traps and hamstrings
Thursday: Back, triceps
Friday: Legs exclusive hamstrings
Saturday: Chest, biceps
Sunday: Rest

My cardio is about 10-15km a riding by bike to the Univerity, so that covers my cardiovascular and stamina maintenance. At the moment I’m bulking so to say at the moment. I’ve finished my cutting period in december 2014 and I’ve been increasing my kcal from then until now, until I will gain weight. Still looking for my sweet spot, so I’ll keep upping kcal until I gain weight again, will keeping my bodyfat% in check, hopefully.

I eat 4600-4800kcal on trainingsdays (high protein, high carb, moderate fat) and on rest days I try to avoid cardio and reduce my kcal intake according to my lower activity level, based on my past experiences and eat 3500-4000kcal on restdays (high protein, low-moderate carb, high fat).

My best 1RM’s from last year @ 88kg bw:
Bench press: 120kg
Overhead press: 80kg
Squat: 155kg
Deadlift: 220kg

I will post some more pictures of my physique later on.

The last 3 years I’ve trained natural and I’m thinking about starting my first AAS cycle to take it to the next level.

I was thinking about running a test-only so see what AAS does for me and how it goes.
Test-only
Week 1-12: test-e @ 250mg every 3,5day (500mg/weekly)
Week 1-14): hCG @ 250iu every other day (875mg/weekly) or 3 x 250iu per week
Week 15-18: Nolvadex (tamoxifen) @ 20mg every day

Hoping for some reactions from you guys.
Cheers, iron addicts.
[/quote]

i’ll echo a couple things that others have said…

cycle looks good for the most part. as far as HCG, you don’t need to run it EOD (once a week is generally fine for most guys)… you’re just including it to minimize testicular atrophy. with that being said, HCG will keep your testes active, which means additional aromatization.

having an AI available until you get gyno is a serious mistake. when you get gyno, that means you have 1) too much estrogen, which is triggering the gyno and b)gyno, which you need to treat as well. either get bloodwork on cycle to gauge when/if you need an AI, or just start it at a low dose from the start…

a lot of guys do PCT for 4 weeks, for some reason (which i clearly don’t agree with, unless it’s for short cycles). you’re gonna be suppressed for like 14 weeks, so it’s quite presumptuous that 4 weeks is going to be sufficient in bringing your HPTA back up to snuff. most of the SERMs have been shown to be extremely effective in 6 weeks, and some work even longer than that.

12

[quote]Iron Mind X wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Thank you for the proper post, I wish more people would make a first cycle post like this.

Cycle looks good.

Stop the hcg 4-5 days before pct. I’d also get some adex or aromasin to run on cycle.

Pct looks good Id extend it out to 6 weeks though and run a low dose AI through pct, stopping one week after the Nolva.

Other than that everything looks good, by your pic you seem to have your diet and training in order. Good luck and have fun[/quote]

Thanks BUD for your reply, I think it just a win-win to help the people that are willing to reply to provide them with sufficient information about the topic starter. It should help me and of course the people that are willing to help me. I thank you for that.

I see indeed that a lot of guys running an AI on cycle, but my thoughts for not running an AI directly from the start was to see if I am “sensitive” to symptoms of too much estrogen, such as water retention etc.

Of course I’m keeping an AI such as Arimidex or Aromasin nearby to introduce it to my cycle when I get symptoms of too much estrogen for example gyno.
I’d use arimidex @ 0.25-0,5mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts) or 12.5-25mg every day.

Good that you say that about the hCG, you’re probably saying that, because of the half time of hCG that should be around 5 days, right? Thanks for the tip. I will implement it.

Could you explain why you would go for 6 weeks PCT instead of 4? I’ve always thought that 1/3 time on cycle would be enough to get your HPG axis going again.

About my training, diet:
I’ve always tried to eat healthy while training, only 1 weekly junkmeal and the rest of my diet contains “clean” food so to say. Only during my vacations I get a bit more loose and eat some more junk, damage control so to say.

I must admit though that I sometimes have a hard time eating 5000kcal of healthy, clean food, but I am still able to do that. It helps me feel good while training and living in general and that is a very important factor for me why I try to eat healthy. I just feel that I get way better results by doing that and I feel a lot better also.[/quote]

Cyco pretty much answered your questions.

AI is good to use unless you get bloodwork to confirm you don’t, which you are. I would start with a low dose to begin with. Even though it takes time for the test to build up in your blood, aromatization will begin quickly. Use a low dose and get bloods 4-5 weeks in and adjust he dose need be. High E has other negative effects other than gyno.

I run my hcg 2-3x a week.

13

[quote]BUDs wrote:

[quote]Iron Mind X wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Thank you for the proper post, I wish more people would make a first cycle post like this.

Cycle looks good.

Stop the hcg 4-5 days before pct. I’d also get some adex or aromasin to run on cycle.

Pct looks good Id extend it out to 6 weeks though and run a low dose AI through pct, stopping one week after the Nolva.

Other than that everything looks good, by your pic you seem to have your diet and training in order. Good luck and have fun[/quote]

Thanks BUD for your reply, I think it just a win-win to help the people that are willing to reply to provide them with sufficient information about the topic starter. It should help me and of course the people that are willing to help me. I thank you for that.

I see indeed that a lot of guys running an AI on cycle, but my thoughts for not running an AI directly from the start was to see if I am “sensitive” to symptoms of too much estrogen, such as water retention etc.

Of course I’m keeping an AI such as Arimidex or Aromasin nearby to introduce it to my cycle when I get symptoms of too much estrogen for example gyno.
I’d use arimidex @ 0.25-0,5mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts) or 12.5-25mg every day.

Good that you say that about the hCG, you’re probably saying that, because of the half time of hCG that should be around 5 days, right? Thanks for the tip. I will implement it.

Could you explain why you would go for 6 weeks PCT instead of 4? I’ve always thought that 1/3 time on cycle would be enough to get your HPG axis going again.

About my training, diet:
I’ve always tried to eat healthy while training, only 1 weekly junkmeal and the rest of my diet contains “clean” food so to say. Only during my vacations I get a bit more loose and eat some more junk, damage control so to say.

I must admit though that I sometimes have a hard time eating 5000kcal of healthy, clean food, but I am still able to do that. It helps me feel good while training and living in general and that is a very important factor for me why I try to eat healthy. I just feel that I get way better results by doing that and I feel a lot better also.[/quote]

Cyco pretty much answered your questions.

AI is good to use unless you get bloodwork to confirm you don’t, which you are. I would start with a low dose to begin with. Even though it takes time for the test to build up in your blood, aromatization will begin quickly. Use a low dose and get bloods 4-5 weeks in and adjust he dose need be. High E has other negative effects other than gyno.

I run my hcg 2-3x a week.

[/quote]

interesting about your HCG… have you run it more or less frequent, or is that one of these protocols you’re just always done?

14

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:

[quote]Iron Mind X wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Thank you for the proper post, I wish more people would make a first cycle post like this.

Cycle looks good.

Stop the hcg 4-5 days before pct. I’d also get some adex or aromasin to run on cycle.

Pct looks good Id extend it out to 6 weeks though and run a low dose AI through pct, stopping one week after the Nolva.

Other than that everything looks good, by your pic you seem to have your diet and training in order. Good luck and have fun[/quote]

Thanks BUD for your reply, I think it just a win-win to help the people that are willing to reply to provide them with sufficient information about the topic starter. It should help me and of course the people that are willing to help me. I thank you for that.

I see indeed that a lot of guys running an AI on cycle, but my thoughts for not running an AI directly from the start was to see if I am “sensitive” to symptoms of too much estrogen, such as water retention etc.

Of course I’m keeping an AI such as Arimidex or Aromasin nearby to introduce it to my cycle when I get symptoms of too much estrogen for example gyno.
I’d use arimidex @ 0.25-0,5mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts) or 12.5-25mg every day.

Good that you say that about the hCG, you’re probably saying that, because of the half time of hCG that should be around 5 days, right? Thanks for the tip. I will implement it.

Could you explain why you would go for 6 weeks PCT instead of 4? I’ve always thought that 1/3 time on cycle would be enough to get your HPG axis going again.

About my training, diet:
I’ve always tried to eat healthy while training, only 1 weekly junkmeal and the rest of my diet contains “clean” food so to say. Only during my vacations I get a bit more loose and eat some more junk, damage control so to say.

I must admit though that I sometimes have a hard time eating 5000kcal of healthy, clean food, but I am still able to do that. It helps me feel good while training and living in general and that is a very important factor for me why I try to eat healthy. I just feel that I get way better results by doing that and I feel a lot better also.[/quote]

Cyco pretty much answered your questions.

AI is good to use unless you get bloodwork to confirm you don’t, which you are. I would start with a low dose to begin with. Even though it takes time for the test to build up in your blood, aromatization will begin quickly. Use a low dose and get bloods 4-5 weeks in and adjust he dose need be. High E has other negative effects other than gyno.

I run my hcg 2-3x a week.

[/quote]

interesting about your HCG… have you run it more or less frequent, or is that one of these protocols you’re just always done?
[/quote]

I blast and cruise so I guess it’s just always what I’ve done

15

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

i’ll echo a couple things that others have said…

cycle looks good for the most part. as far as HCG, you don’t need to run it EOD (once a week is generally fine for most guys)… you’re just including it to minimize testicular atrophy. with that being said, HCG will keep your testes active, which means additional aromatization.

having an AI available until you get gyno is a serious mistake. when you get gyno, that means you have 1) too much estrogen, which is triggering the gyno and b)gyno, which you need to treat as well. either get bloodwork on cycle to gauge when/if you need an AI, or just start it at a low dose from the start…

a lot of guys do PCT for 4 weeks, for some reason (which i clearly don’t agree with, unless it’s for short cycles). you’re gonna be suppressed for like 14 weeks, so it’s quite presumptuous that 4 weeks is going to be sufficient in bringing your HPTA back up to snuff. most of the SERMs have been shown to be extremely effective in 6 weeks, and some work even longer than that.

[/quote]

Thanks for your input, cyco. I appreciate it.

My idea about the EOD or 3x times per week for hCG comes from the thought that injecting hCG more often mimics more the natural release of LH in the body. And injecting more often, reduces the dosis per injection and therefore the chance of aromatization. That is at least the idea behind from myself.

I see indeed a lot of guys running an AI, but my thought behind not directly using an AI is that I’d like to see how sensitive I am to symptoms of too much estrogen, maybe I don’t need an AI at all while using 500mg of test and 500-750iu of hCG on a weekly basis. My idea is that if I directly add an AI, I will not know if I really need an AI for such a cycle. I prefer not to take too much stuff for my first cycle. AI’s will put extra “stress” on the liver, of course.

A possible solution is of course that I could get some blood work in during my cycle. And check only: total test, free test + E2 to check if I need an AI. Since at the moment I don’t feel like running an AI directly for preventive measures.

At what E2 should I take Aromasin at 12,5-25mg ED or 0,25-0,5mg A-dex EOD?

Thanks for the PCT idea of 6 weeks, but I hardly see people having an 6 weeks PCT on a test-only cycle. What I do see is that some start the first 2 weeks on 40mg ED and last 2 weeks on 20mg ED.

What’s your opinion about that?

16

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Cyco pretty much answered your questions.

AI is good to use unless you get bloodwork to confirm you don’t, which you are. I would start with a low dose to begin with. Even though it takes time for the test to build up in your blood, aromatization will begin quickly. Use a low dose and get bloods 4-5 weeks in and adjust he dose need be. High E has other negative effects other than gyno.

I run my hcg 2-3x a week.

[/quote]

Thanks for your reply.

See my reasons why I don’t favour the idea of directly using an AI for a my first cycle.

I will also run hCG 3x times a week. Injections on mo, wo, fri would be great at 250iu, I guess.

Not sure about the AI, but I will get some Aromasin in to be sure, in case I need an AI to counter heavy symptoms of high E2.

17

[quote]Iron Mind X wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

i’ll echo a couple things that others have said…

cycle looks good for the most part. as far as HCG, you don’t need to run it EOD (once a week is generally fine for most guys)… you’re just including it to minimize testicular atrophy. with that being said, HCG will keep your testes active, which means additional aromatization.

having an AI available until you get gyno is a serious mistake. when you get gyno, that means you have 1) too much estrogen, which is triggering the gyno and b)gyno, which you need to treat as well. either get bloodwork on cycle to gauge when/if you need an AI, or just start it at a low dose from the start…

a lot of guys do PCT for 4 weeks, for some reason (which i clearly don’t agree with, unless it’s for short cycles). you’re gonna be suppressed for like 14 weeks, so it’s quite presumptuous that 4 weeks is going to be sufficient in bringing your HPTA back up to snuff. most of the SERMs have been shown to be extremely effective in 6 weeks, and some work even longer than that.

[/quote]

Thanks for your input, cyco. I appreciate it.

My idea about the EOD or 3x times per week for hCG comes from the thought that injecting hCG more often mimics more the natural release of LH in the body. And injecting more often, reduces the dosis per injection and therefore the chance of aromatization. That is at least the idea behind from myself.

I see indeed a lot of guys running an AI, but my thought behind not directly using an AI is that I’d like to see how sensitive I am to symptoms of too much estrogen, maybe I don’t need an AI at all while using 500mg of test and 500-750iu of hCG on a weekly basis. My idea is that if I directly add an AI, I will not know if I really need an AI for such a cycle. I prefer not to take too much stuff for my first cycle. AI’s will put extra “stress” on the liver, of course.

A possible solution is of course that I could get some blood work in during my cycle. And check only: total test, free test + E2 to check if I need an AI. Since at the moment I don’t feel like running an AI directly for preventive measures.

At what E2 should I take Aromasin at 12,5-25mg ED or 0,25-0,5mg A-dex EOD?

Thanks for the PCT idea of 6 weeks, but I hardly see people having an 6 weeks PCT on a test-only cycle. What I do see is that some start the first 2 weeks on 40mg ED and last 2 weeks on 20mg ED.

What’s your opinion about that?
[/quote]

if you think i’m wrong, then do it how you think will work. but don’t blow me off and expect me to explain it again…

18

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

if you think i’m wrong, then do it how you think will work. but don’t blow me off and expect me to explain it again…[/quote]

I just gave you my thoughts on the situation. I don’t say you’re wrong, I just gave you my thoughts and reasons for my set-up.

And I also just told what I’ve read on other forums, I don’t say the set-up of those forums are right or that yours is wrong.

I hoped to give you more information about my reasons why I came with this set-up. If you find that offensive, I apoligize… If you don’t want to give more arguments for your advice, that’s a shame, but that’s your free choice to make.

19

kid, run the fucking AI.

We get threads every day about libido problems post cycle and 99% of the time it’s from not managing E on cycle

20

[quote]Yogi wrote:
kid, run the fucking AI.

We get threads every day about libido problems post cycle and 99% of the time it’s from not managing E on cycle[/quote]

Some say don’t run an AI on your first cycle, just check if you maybe get symptoms of too much water retention or sensitive nipples if you get that then introduce an AI. It’s better to not run an AI if you might not need one.

And then you have some that say just run an AI, better safe than sorry.

Not sure what is wisdom. So much different opinions :slight_smile:

More people that would like to reply to the subject?

Thanks all that have replied until now, btw. Appreciate it.