Hey CT.
Just wondering if you or your clients have ever tried IF, and what kind of results were obtained. I recently started such a diet, and I feel great thus far, but I’m curious as to your experiences with it, if you have any to share.
Thank you.
[quote]forbes wrote:
Hey CT.
Just wondering if you or your clients have ever tried IF, and what kind of results were obtained. I recently started such a diet, and I feel great thus far, but I’m curious as to your experiences with it, if you have any to share.
Thank you.[/quote]
I’ve tried every diet approach known to man 
Including IF. I never put any of my clients on it though.
In theory it makes some sense. I suggest that you do a google scholar search about ‘‘feast and famine cycle’’, ‘‘thrifty gene hypothesis’’ or ‘‘Frank Booth’’ to find some info about the logic behind alternating periods of intense physical activity and starvation and physical inactivity and feasting.
And recent studies have shown that meal frequency isn’t as important as we once though when it comes to body composition. In other words, eating frequent meals doesn’t have a significant impact compared to less frequent feedings as long as caloric content, nutrients intake and food choices are equivalent.
Personally I do respond well to such a way of eating. By respond well I basically mean feeling good and alert during the day. I also get lean veyr fast on this approach and don’t seem to lose muscle mass while losing the fat. However I find it very hard to gain a significant amount of muscle mass with this approach.
However I could see the potential efficacy of and IF approach where you would add 1 or 2 protein pulses during the day with casein hydrolysate.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Hey CT.
Just wondering if you or your clients have ever tried IF, and what kind of results were obtained. I recently started such a diet, and I feel great thus far, but I’m curious as to your experiences with it, if you have any to share.
Thank you.[/quote]
I’ve tried every diet approach known to man Including IF. I never put any of my clients on it though.
In theory it makes some sense. I suggest that you do a google scholar search about ‘‘feast and famine cycle’’, ‘‘thrifty gene hypothesis’’ or ‘‘Frank Booth’’ to find some info about the logic behind alternating periods of intense physical activity and starvation and physical inactivity and feasting.
And recent studies have shown that meal frequency isn’t as important as we once though when it comes to body composition. In other words, eating frequent meals doesn’t have a significant impact compared to less frequent feedings as long as caloric content, nutrients intake and food choices are equivalent.
Personally I do respond well to such a way of eating. By respond well I basically mean feeling good and alert during the day. I also get lean veyr fast on this approach and don’t seem to lose muscle mass while losing the fat. However I find it very hard to gain a significant amount of muscle mass with this approach.
However I could see the potential efficacy of and IF approach where you would add 1 or 2 protein pulses during the day with casein hydrolysate.[/quote]
When you did IF, did you workout on an empty stomach and fast some time after for a few hours, or did you still consume ample nutrients para workout?
CT, being meal frequency doesn’t matter anymore, would you see it optimal for me eating two times a day, once upon waking up, last time before bed, along with maybe a little meal an hour after workout? this does not count peri-workout, as soon this will involve anaconda, but for now, it’s only going to be whey protein post-workout. I say optimal for me because this shouldn’t interfere with a job should I have one in the future. I definitely am not looking to pack my food during the day.
[quote]jblue1988 wrote:
CT, being meal frequency doesn’t matter anymore, would you see it optimal for me eating two times a day, once upon waking up, last time before bed, along with maybe a little meal an hour after workout?
this does not count peri-workout, as soon this will involve anaconda, but for now, it’s only going to be whey protein post-workout. I say optimal for me because this shouldn’t interfere with a job should I have one in the future. I definitely am not looking to pack my food during the day. [/quote]
I didn’t say that meal frequency didn’t matter. I said that recent studies have shown that frequent feedings didn’t have any metabolic advantages.
Eating twice a day would not be optimal IMHO. I’ve done it, and it is doable. But it is not something that I would necessarily recommend.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Hey CT.
Just wondering if you or your clients have ever tried IF, and what kind of results were obtained. I recently started such a diet, and I feel great thus far, but I’m curious as to your experiences with it, if you have any to share.
Thank you.[/quote]
I’ve tried every diet approach known to man Including IF. I never put any of my clients on it though.
In theory it makes some sense. I suggest that you do a google scholar search about ‘‘feast and famine cycle’’, ‘‘thrifty gene hypothesis’’ or ‘‘Frank Booth’’ to find some info about the logic behind alternating periods of intense physical activity and starvation and physical inactivity and feasting.
And recent studies have shown that meal frequency isn’t as important as we once thought when it comes to body composition. In other words, eating frequent meals doesn’t have a significant impact compared to less frequent feedings as long as caloric content, nutrients intake and food choices are equivalent.
Personally I do respond well to such a way of eating. By respond well I basically mean feeling good and alert during the day. I also get lean veyr fast on this approach and don’t seem to lose muscle mass while losing the fat. However I find it very hard to gain a significant amount of muscle mass with this approach.
However I could see the potential efficacy of and IF approach where you would add 1 or 2 protein pulses during the day with casein hydrolysate.[/quote]
When you did IF, did you workout on an empty stomach and fast some time after for a few hours, or did you still consume ample nutrients para workout?[/quote]
I don’t like answering questions about IF. People will always tend to see my answer as a recommendation.
YES I have used IF. YES it can work (like any diet). But it is not an approach that I would recommend to most. I don’t want to say ‘‘this is what I did…’’… people will invariably distort reality and what I did as a trial and error thing to see if something worked well for me will be interpreted like my no.1 recommendation.
I have nothing against IF. And I know how to adapt it to my body and lifestyle to make it work. But it is not an approach that I feel comfortable endorsing for most.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Hey CT.
Just wondering if you or your clients have ever tried IF, and what kind of results were obtained. I recently started such a diet, and I feel great thus far, but I’m curious as to your experiences with it, if you have any to share.
Thank you.[/quote]
I’ve tried every diet approach known to man Including IF. I never put any of my clients on it though.
In theory it makes some sense. I suggest that you do a google scholar search about ‘‘feast and famine cycle’’, ‘‘thrifty gene hypothesis’’ or ‘‘Frank Booth’’ to find some info about the logic behind alternating periods of intense physical activity and starvation and physical inactivity and feasting.
And recent studies have shown that meal frequency isn’t as important as we once thought when it comes to body composition. In other words, eating frequent meals doesn’t have a significant impact compared to less frequent feedings as long as caloric content, nutrients intake and food choices are equivalent.
Personally I do respond well to such a way of eating. By respond well I basically mean feeling good and alert during the day. I also get lean veyr fast on this approach and don’t seem to lose muscle mass while losing the fat. However I find it very hard to gain a significant amount of muscle mass with this approach.
However I could see the potential efficacy of and IF approach where you would add 1 or 2 protein pulses during the day with casein hydrolysate.[/quote]
When you did IF, did you workout on an empty stomach and fast some time after for a few hours, or did you still consume ample nutrients para workout?[/quote]
I don’t like answering questions about IF. People will always tend to see my answer as a recommendation.
YES I have used IF. YES it can work (like any diet). But it is not an approach that I would recommend to most. I don’t want to say ‘‘this is what I did…’’… people will invariably distort reality and what I did as a trial and error thing to see if something worked well for me will be interpreted like my no.1 recommendation.
I have nothing against IF. And I know how to adapt it to my body and lifestyle to make it work. But it is not an approach that I feel comfortable endorsing for most.[/quote]
Yes, but my intentions were never to take something as a recommendation from you and apply it to myself. I asked because I respect your opinion and I wanted to hear what you personally had to say about it. I understand in the end I will have to try it for myself (as I am now).
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Hey CT.
Just wondering if you or your clients have ever tried IF, and what kind of results were obtained. I recently started such a diet, and I feel great thus far, but I’m curious as to your experiences with it, if you have any to share.
Thank you.[/quote]
I’ve tried every diet approach known to man Including IF. I never put any of my clients on it though.
In theory it makes some sense. I suggest that you do a google scholar search about ‘‘feast and famine cycle’’, ‘‘thrifty gene hypothesis’’ or ‘‘Frank Booth’’ to find some info about the logic behind alternating periods of intense physical activity and starvation and physical inactivity and feasting.
And recent studies have shown that meal frequency isn’t as important as we once thought when it comes to body composition. In other words, eating frequent meals doesn’t have a significant impact compared to less frequent feedings as long as caloric content, nutrients intake and food choices are equivalent.
Personally I do respond well to such a way of eating. By respond well I basically mean feeling good and alert during the day. I also get lean veyr fast on this approach and don’t seem to lose muscle mass while losing the fat. However I find it very hard to gain a significant amount of muscle mass with this approach.
However I could see the potential efficacy of and IF approach where you would add 1 or 2 protein pulses during the day with casein hydrolysate.[/quote]
When you did IF, did you workout on an empty stomach and fast some time after for a few hours, or did you still consume ample nutrients para workout?[/quote]
I don’t like answering questions about IF. People will always tend to see my answer as a recommendation.
YES I have used IF. YES it can work (like any diet). But it is not an approach that I would recommend to most. I don’t want to say ‘‘this is what I did…’’… people will invariably distort reality and what I did as a trial and error thing to see if something worked well for me will be interpreted like my no.1 recommendation.
I have nothing against IF. And I know how to adapt it to my body and lifestyle to make it work. But it is not an approach that I feel comfortable endorsing for most.[/quote]
Yes, but my intentions were never to take something as a recommendation from you and apply it to myself. I asked because I respect your opinion and I wanted to hear what you personally had to say about it. I understand in the end I will have to try it for myself (as I am now).[/quote]
I know you didn’t meant to do that, but understand that a lot of people will read the answer and might take it out of context.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I know you didn’t meant to do that, but understand that a lot of people will read the answer and might take it out of context.[/quote]
So, if I understand correctly, you’re suggesting I go on this IF plan.
Muchos Thanks.
[quote]sen say wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I know you didn’t meant to do that, but understand that a lot of people will read the answer and might take it out of context.[/quote]
So, if I understand correctly, you’re suggesting I go on this IF plan.
Muchos Thanks.[/quote]
Words to that effect.
I.F huh, Thibs secret to leanness and hugeness. Got it.
haha
[quote]stevo_ wrote:
I.F huh, Thibs secret to leanness and hugeness. Got it.
haha[/quote]
Yep, don’t even have to train.
If you don’t mind me asking, I’m curious why you wouldn’t put most of your clients on an IF plan?
[and if you do mind, just ignore me 
]
I don’t want to speak for CT, but I can speculate and possibly shed light on why he wouldn’t put clients on I.F.
Firstly, have you seen some of the guys CT works with?.. they’re huge. Once you start getting over 200 pounds or so, the amount of calories to grow, and even to LOSE weight turns IF from being a “convenience” to a physically painful hassle.
I mean imagine having to eat 2k calories a couple times a day. Sure it would be fun (maybe not if the food is clean) but you wouldn’t be able to do shit afterwards- you’d be too full!
If you notice, a lot of the guys who have had great results with IF are under 200 pounds. Yeah they’re shredded and lean, but they just don’t carry massive amounts of lean body mass. Unless you have the stomach capacity of Joey Chestnut, IF isn’t going to get you huge. Like I mentioned before, even if you could pack away the sheer volume of food it would require to gain lots of mass following this type of fasting, in my opinion it would be physically painful and probably not a good idea to stuff your gut like that on a day in and day out basis.
Next, CT is a big believer in multiple “micro” workouts per day. Not really a great idea to be fasted half the day for something like this.
I know CT has or had a client who owned his own business and worked manual labor 40+ hours a week PLUS worked out hard multiple times a week. I think I.F. + this type of situation would be a recipe for disaster.
This is not to knock IF whatsoever. Just stating facts why I believe CT prefers not to have his clients follow the diet.
For someone looking to lose fat, I think IF has many practical applications, granted the person has the discipline and capacity to eat enough during the feeding window. For someone looking to gain muscle, I think it can also work, but will be very difficult and probably not smart for someone carrying substantial LBM to gain.
At the end of the day, results whether they be fat loss or muscle gain, will come from calories in/ out, peri workout nutrition, recovery, supplementation and training… the end.
In my opinion fasting would be optimal for someone who is overweight and doesn’t really have a lot of motivation for weightloss. Just because how easy it is to follow. But honestly try eat like 4-5k calories in that 8-hour window, I tried and I just couldn’t do that from day to day, just made me so sick.
But if your daily calories are around 2k, don’t want to feel hungry while dieting and can’t resist a piece of cake every now and then IT is probably the best option.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
.
However I could see the potential efficacy of and IF approach where you would add 1 or 2 protein pulses during the day with casein hydrolysate.[/quote]
This is actually a lot like what John Kiefer has been recommending lately in his articles on EFS and his blog. Skipping breakfast and then multiple “pulses” throughout the day. He doesn’t use pure CH, but rather a blend of whey, casein, CH, and leucine.
I have speculated on this board before that intermittent fasting may improve the effectiveness of the Anaconda protocol. I even volunteered to guinea pig this idea and write an article with my experiences if Biotest wanted to send me some research supplies…the offer still stands, guys
Good to see you have an open mind in regards to things that are far outside of the traditional bodybuilding paradigm though, CT.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
.
However I could see the potential efficacy of and IF approach where you would add 1 or 2 protein pulses during the day with casein hydrolysate.[/quote]
This is actually a lot like what John Kiefer has been recommending lately in his articles on EFS and his blog. Skipping breakfast and then multiple “pulses” throughout the day. He doesn’t use pure CH, but rather a blend of whey, casein, CH, and leucine.
I have speculated on this board before that intermittent fasting may improve the effectiveness of the Anaconda protocol. I even volunteered to guinea pig this idea and write an article with my experiences if Biotest wanted to send me some research supplies…the offer still stands, guys
Good to see you have an open mind in regards to things that are far outside of the traditional bodybuilding paradigm though, CT.[/quote]
This may or may not be relevant to the discussion, if not then feel free to ignore. I coach some lifters who have trouble getting decent meals in throughout the day for various reasons. They train 2-3 times per day. Yeah, i would like them to eat better, but I have found that if they can get 2-3 decent doses of our protein in throughout the day, usually pre and post morning workout, then post afternoon workout, then get 3-4k calories at night after evening workout, they are usually fine. Not eating at all during the day doesnt work when you are training 3 times. And if you are going to only do protein during the day, then you better be ready to really pile the food in between say 6pm and 8pm… but if you are willing to do this, then I dont see any really aparent negative consequence in training.
I dont recommend this as ideal, but, as i said, i dont see many negative consequences when its done.
[quote]glenn pendlay wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
.
However I could see the potential efficacy of and IF approach where you would add 1 or 2 protein pulses during the day with casein hydrolysate.[/quote]
This is actually a lot like what John Kiefer has been recommending lately in his articles on EFS and his blog. Skipping breakfast and then multiple “pulses” throughout the day. He doesn’t use pure CH, but rather a blend of whey, casein, CH, and leucine.
I have speculated on this board before that intermittent fasting may improve the effectiveness of the Anaconda protocol. I even volunteered to guinea pig this idea and write an article with my experiences if Biotest wanted to send me some research supplies…the offer still stands, guys
Good to see you have an open mind in regards to things that are far outside of the traditional bodybuilding paradigm though, CT.[/quote]
This may or may not be relevant to the discussion, if not then feel free to ignore. I coach some lifters who have trouble getting decent meals in throughout the day for various reasons. They train 2-3 times per day. Yeah, i would like them to eat better, but I have found that if they can get 2-3 decent doses of our protein in throughout the day, usually pre and post morning workout, then post afternoon workout, then get 3-4k calories at night after evening workout, they are usually fine. Not eating at all during the day doesnt work when you are training 3 times. And if you are going to only do protein during the day, then you better be ready to really pile the food in between say 6pm and 8pm… but if you are willing to do this, then I dont see any really aparent negative consequence in training.
I dont recommend this as ideal, but, as i said, i dont see many negative consequences when its done.
[/quote]
Sounds kinda like Warrior Diet
The warrior diet is a type of intermittent fasting, but a drastically oversimplified and (by many accounts) ineffective version.
I would not judge all intermittent fasting protocols based on the feedback from the warrior diet, as I have seen (and experienced) nothing but positive things regarding Martin Berkhan and John Keifer’s protocols, whereas the results are mixed with the warrior diet.
Obviously training frequency is going to be a concern with something like this if you are training multiple times in the same day, but it is conceivable that one could have their first session of the day during the transition from fast to feeding- for the sake of the example, we will say that the fast is broken at 12pm. Possibly something like the first anaconda protocol to take advantage of the metabolic advantages afforded by the heavily fasted state (much of the research done on leucine and CH was done on fasted individuals, recreating the scenarios presented in the research = getting closer to recreating the results) taken in during the first training session. Followed by a fairly large (moderate carb) whole food meal 1 hour post (2-3pm, and then the second training session around 6 pm with a (relatively) lower carbohydrate intake peri-workout while maintaining a high protein intake during this time. You could even periodize the training so that the first session is higher tension (promotes glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis) with a reduced neural and fatigue cost (think the eccentricless stuff CT has been talking about) and the second session a higher volume power based session where the real growth is stimulated). An EOD training schedule seems like it would be appropriate, with the second day being a drastically lower calorie/low carbohydrate day and possibly some energy systems/depletion type work involved. To me, this seems like an excellent recomposition strategy. Of course, this is all speculation and I don’t have the time or resources to implement something this complex. Just thinking out loud if anyone was interested.
Sorry for the hijack.
Nah keep posting your stuff Stronghold, good info.