WoW, muslim by birth even though I don’t practice and a non arab I can say she hit the friggin nail right on the head!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
orion wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
In Christianity, to murder is a mortal sin. Your soul is toast.
In Islam, murder is sometimes acceptable, as in murdering an apostate.
pure word games
How so? Isn’t it true?
[/quote]
Depends on the form of Christianity.
-Gendou
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
As usual, liberals have polluted a legitimate academic field with deranged notions of “equality” where none has ever existed and never will. There are no “equal, co-existing civilizations” on earth and there never will be. That’s simply not the way things work in the reality zone.
I keep seeing you write this but I cannot for one second understand what “notion” you think liberals have of equality–that ain’t it. The fact that all humans should have equal access to rights afforded to everyone else is not untrue. We may not be the same physically or spiritually but everyone ever born should always be considered equals in regard to their rights.
You say you are a student of power but you have much to learn, grasshopper. Power is not real, it is an abstract concept because it is derived from energy which is also abstract. Power is the ability to do work in a given amount of time–it is a relative value and like any other macroscopic observable is dependent on ones frame of reference.
Maybe you mean power in the Nietzschean sense of “will to power”?[/quote]
If you can’t get passed the semantics of the debate then you are wasting your time. Your entire last paragraph seems to be nothing more than an excuse to impress people with your vocabulary.
You are also, as I feel most liberals are, focused too much on philosophy and not reality. Yes, everyone should have equal rights, but there are things in the world, things that will always be here, that will shift the balance of “power” and “rights” away from equality. Just because the most practical solution to a world problem doesn’t fit in with an idealistic goal, doesn’t mean it isn’t the best course of action.
[quote]cheap sunglasses wrote:
You are also, as I feel most liberals are, focused too much on philosophy and not reality.[/quote]
I am trying to focus on consistency–the reality being that many people are inconsistent with their arguments.
Sorry my vocabulary was too over your head. Try using a dictionary.
nice work posting this.
it is too bad even in the USA, polls show people will still not vote for a president that is secular. too bad.
it seems, religious affiliation is just the stamp of approval some folks need and the more born-again or zealotlike you are the mo bettah!
f
President of Al-Azhar University and Fomer Mufti of Egypt Ahmad Al-Tayyeb Explains Wife Beating in Islam
Following is an interview with President of Al-Azhar University and former Mufti of Egypt, Dr. Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, which aired on Nile News TV on May 25, 2007.
Ahmad Al-Tayyeb: With regard to wife beating… In a nutshell, it appeared as part of a program to reform the wife. [According to the Koran], first “admonish them,” [then] “sleep in separate beds, and beat them.”
Interviewer: I think we must stress that this pertains to a rebellious woman…
Ahmad Al-Tayyeb: Of course. It’s not that anybody can start beating as he sees fit. [Westerners] who claim this talk about an Islam which is a figment of their imagination. They are villains because they know there’s no such thing in Islam, and they want to pin this interpretation on it. Why? Because Islamic culture is the only culture that is spreading, and is viewed with fear by people of other cultures. In any case… This method appeared as part of the treatment of a rebellious wife. I am faced with two options - either the family will be destroyed by divorce, or I can use means that may bring my wife, the mother of my children, back to her senses. The first means is admonishment.
[…]
The second means of treatment is “sleeping in separate beds.” Why? Because this targets the honor… A lot could be said about this. The strength of a woman lies in her ability to seduce the man. The man is strong and can do whatever he wants, but the woman has a weapon of her own. This weapon can be targeted. Many women will come back to their senses, when they realize that this is what’s involved.
[…]
By Allah, even if only one woman out of a million can be reformed by light beatings… It’s not really beating, it’s more like punching… It’s like shoving or poking her. That’s what it is.
http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1478
Bahraini Imam Jum’a Tawfiq Jum’a on Wife Beating in Islam
Following is an interview with Bahraini Imam Sheik Jum’a Tawfiq Jum’a, which aired on Bahrain TV on May 16, 2007.
Sheik Jum’a Tawfiz Jum’a: With regard to [wife] beating… The husband is not in a karate club or in a boxing club with his wife. In addition, the beatings must not cause broken bones, bleeding, or cuts, and must not leave marks. It is light beating, which makes the wife feel the extent of the anger or sorrow in this man’s heart. Some people say that this beating is uncivilized. I say to them that since it appears in the Koran ? beware of defying what appears in the Koran. Beatings are indispensable. Beatings are not restricted to wives. The Prophet Muhammad told us that a son… He said: “Teach your sons how to pray until the age of seven, and beat them until the age of ten, if they don’t [pray].” What is the purpose of the beatings here? If it had no benefit, the Prophet Muhammad would not have mentioned it, because he speaks not of his own mind, and everything he says is a revelation. This appears in a hadith, which some might claim is unreliable and so on ? although it is authentic ? but what can be said when [it appears] in the Koran itself? The Koran is the book sent down by Allah, and falsehood does not come anywhere near it. In this book, Allah explained the guidelines of life to us all, and in it, he said: “and beat them.”
http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1477
This stuff about the wife beating is just plain sick!
The women who are beaten by these scum should do a little late night slice-and-dice. Might make the next Muslim scumbag think twice.
I pity the poor bitch assigned to lixy!
There’s nothing like the threat of violence to keep a marriage healthy and happy!
See, in America, those guys are put in jail. Abuse should not be tolerated.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
In Christianity, to murder is a mortal sin. Your soul is toast.
In Islam, murder is sometimes acceptable, as in murdering an apostate.
[/quote]
my understanding is that both islam and chirstianity have flimsy claims to murder being ok. jihad/crusade.
really its not ok in either religion.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
This stuff about the wife beating is just plain sick!
The women who are beaten by these scum should do a little late night slice-and-dice. Might make the next Muslim scumbag think twice.[/quote]
“Do not retain [your wives] to harm them” Quran, 2:231
“If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband’s part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men’s souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.”
Quran, 4:128
“I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.” Hadith Abu Dawud
"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity.
If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good." Quran, 4:19
“Those who spend, whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon Men; for Allah loves those who do good.”
Quran, 3:134
[quote]kroby wrote:
There’s nothing like the threat of violence to keep a marriage healthy and happy! [/quote]
Seriously guys, stop buying into the propaganda that only presents the extremist side of the coin while ignoring the beliefs of the Muslim majority. Stop relying on MEMRI and try talking to a real-life Muslim instead.
If you don’t know any Muslim, I’d recommend you study the following carefully:
http://www.submission.org/women/mis.html
Thank you,
[quote]lixy wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
This stuff about the wife beating is just plain sick!
The women who are beaten by these scum should do a little late night slice-and-dice. Might make the next Muslim scumbag think twice.
“Do not retain [your wives] to harm them” Quran, 2:231
“If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband’s part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men’s souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.”
Quran, 4:128
“I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.” Hadith Abu Dawud
"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity.
If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good." Quran, 4:19
“Those who spend, whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon Men; for Allah loves those who do good.”
Quran, 3:134[/quote]
Lixy, is there anything in the Quran that covers pregnant suicide bombers? Perhaps she was doing it to avoid a beating??
Lixy , I agree with what you are saying. It does seem like the extremeists are way more down with beating their wives and stuff.
I do realize that not all muslims agree with this extreme type of behavior but I don’t see that many moderate muslims saying anything about these dicks that think beating down women is cool.
Now in my own personal opinion I don’t think the idea that a man can have more than one wife is cool. Sharing a husband can’t possibly be good for the emotional well being of a woman or family.By the way I’ve been checked out by alot of Iraqi women that live in this type of situation.
This is the one I’ll never forget. This woman is Pakistani. It’s not just the arab muslims who treat women like beasts.
I saw this one in national geographic a few years ago. Her husband and father in law dug out her eyes, cut off her nose, cut off her ears, cut off her tongue and left her for dead. That woman in the video is right, they do treat women like they are beasts.
If Islam is a religion of peace, how is it Islam can so consistantly produce males (they are not men) who are capable of such barbarity against their own family?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Seriously guys, stop buying into the propaganda that only presents the extremist side of the coin while ignoring the beliefs of the Muslim majority. Stop relying on MEMRI and try talking to a real-life Muslim instead.
If you don’t know any Muslim, I’d recommend you study the following carefully:
http://www.submission.org/women/mis.html
Thank you,[/quote]
I lived in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood. None of my neighbors would talk to me because I wasn’t a member of their cult.
I was in the hallal market at the end of my street almost every day but noone ever said hello.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
This stuff about the wife beating is just plain sick!
The women who are beaten by these scum should do a little late night slice-and-dice. Might make the next Muslim scumbag think twice.[/quote]
For fuck’s sake, cut it out.
If a man can get the shit kicked out of him, women can take a smack or two every now and then.