[quote]Professor X wrote:
That was brilliant. I mean, the way you just threw words up on screen in an attempt to make some sort of come back…breathtaking. How do you do it? Here I was expecting you to at least attempt to stay on topic and you simply went left. What deflection. What grace. What style.[/quote]
It’s called a reply, dumbass. I directly responded to what you wrote. Brilliant, eh? I didn’t bother reading your tripe past the above paragraph.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
<<>>
Value IS an inherent quality and failure to assign it subjectively is a sure indicator of stupidity, arrogance or both.[/quote]
How can value be simultaneously inherent and assigned subjectively? The first implies that it is an objective quality. The second implies that it must be determined on an individual (and thus subjective) basis.
I’ve noticed this whenever I visit other colleges. I’m used to intellectually stimulating conversation, but sometimes if I’m out at a local college or visiting a friend, I feel like… well like people are dumber. This creates communication issues.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
How can value be simultaneously inherent and assigned subjectively? The first implies that it is an objective quality. The second implies that it must be determined on an individual (and thus subjective) basis.[/quote]
You may be a veritable storehouse of information that would be useful to me. That value exists whether I recognize it or not.
It only becomes useful to me when I exercise the intelligence and humility to concede that you have what I lack.
Your value to me as the object is independent of my subjective assignment of it as such.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Professor X wrote:
That was brilliant. I mean, the way you just threw words up on screen in an attempt to make some sort of come back…breathtaking. How do you do it? Here I was expecting you to at least attempt to stay on topic and you simply went left. What deflection. What grace. What style.
It’s called a reply, dumbass. I directly responded to what you wrote. Brilliant, eh? I didn’t bother reading your tripe past the above paragraph.[/quote]
Of course you didn’t. You also have yet to respond to the topic of this thread. You are useless and have now been dealt with by myself and the other poster responding to you. Get back to us should you ever have the balls to attack the topic on any level worth respecting.
“I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance”
Socrates
“Think not those faithful who praise all thy words and actions; but those who kindly reprove thy faults”
Socrates
I think that both apply to the discussion at hand, but the second quote is the one that the OP should really pay attention to.
Kombatathlete,
The reason that this thread has gone on so long and hasn’t seemed to really get anywhere is because you have failed to realize that the people responding to you, even the ones doing so in a brash and/or abrasive manner, are trying to help you.
They are trying to point out, or “reprove”, a fault that everyone but you seems to see. Yet, you don’t seem to want to humble yourself to realize this. So, you have been stubbornly trying to defend and deny that you have this fault. You seem to want to convince us, and more importantly yourself, that your problems arise from your superior intelligence and that it couldn’t possibly be the result of poor communication skills, or perhaps the fact that none of your friends are interested in the same things as you, etc…
Then, when someone makes a really good point you seem to be like “yes, I already knew that”.
This reminds me of the story of the student who goes to learn from the old master (I know you may have heard it before, but by the chance that you haven’t I’ll briefly tell it)
The young student goes to the old master and says, “Master, please teach me”.
The master accepts and proceeds to teach the student. But, every time the master starts to teach something the student interrupts with, “yes, I already knew that.”
So, eventually the master simply stops teaching and begins to poor the student some tea. Only he doesn’t stop when the tea cup becomes full and the tea begins to overflow out of the cup.
The student yells, “Hey! You’re pouring tea all over the place!”
To which the master replies, “Yes. But if you do not first empty your cup; how can you taste my cup of tea?”
I know, I know. This story has become somewhat of a cliche. But it really illustrates what is going on in this thread. Your cup is full, so to speak, and you are unwilling to empty it and “taste” the tea (advice) that older more experienced people are offering you. Yet, you chose to come here and post this thread, thus suggesting that you were looking for guidance.
If you expected to get a verbal pat on the back, or something along the lines of, “yup, looks like you’re just too damn smart. Maybe we should all just bow down to you and make you our king”, or maybe, “Yeah, we all have that problem too, why don’t you come join our SuperBraniacs club”; you’re in the wrong place. People here are honest, sometimes brutally honest.
But that’s why this is such a great place to come; because people here will tell you the truth, no sugar coating involved. We’re not here to inflate each others’ egos or perpetuate each others’ dellusions. But rather to give each other honest advice, suggestions, and/or opinions.
Do you see how ridiculous every one of those responses would have been? And yet, you seem to have gotten angry that people have been completely honest with you in their responses. That is what you should have been hoping for in the first place. And truthfully, there has been a lot of good advice/quotes on this thread that if applied will greatly help you out.
See, at least in my opinion, stupidity isn’t a function of IQ. It’s actually more a fuction of humility.
What I mean is that a person who has a low IQ, but is very humble can learn. They can improve themselves and adapt, thus becoming “smarter”. But, a person who has a high IQ and is very arrogant and unwilling to humble themselves to the fact that they might just not know it all (though perhaps initially at a higher intelligence level), can’t improve.
Why? Because they think they already know it all. Therefore, it is they who are actually the “stupid” ones, as they will stand less of a chance of surviving so to speak.
That is what I believe Socrates meant with the first quote that I posted. If you are in that place of humility where you just outright admit to yourself that you "know nothing"then your cup will be empty and you will be able to grow, learn, and improve yourself.
I know that this is a tough thing to do, at any age, and especially at your age as you have yet to actually get out into the real world yet and therefore don’t really have any real world experience to call upon. But trust me, and the many others who have been trying to help you out so far, you need to stop thinking that you know it all.
You need to stop thinking that everyone else is the problem. They’re not. The problem has to do with you. If you honestly do some self reflection, and really read back through many of the posts on this thread, you’ll figure out what that problem is. Then, it’s up to you to apply the knowledge that you have gained and fix it.
Good luck and good training,
Sentoguy
[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:
nephorm wrote:
KombatAthlete wrote:
I know that talking about your own intelligence is a bad idea. Hence I discuss it in an Internet forum, but I guess people still take it to heart.
I can recall threads in the past where posters have relayed their childhood experiences or quoted their IQs, without anyone getting too riled up about it. Those same posters were also making sure not to sound condescending or to make it sound too much like they were bragging. A lot of it is tone, or what one takes to be tone from an internet post void of inflection.
As Julia said earlier, some people just seem to think they are an entirely different plane of existence than the rest of the world. I’m not saying that you ever made that claim.
I wasn’t offended by your post, btw, nor did I think you were being an ass. As I think back on my experiences, however, I realize that I have known people who “dumb themselves down.” Or rather, they don’t feel the need to overawe everyone with their intelligence all the time.
I knew some people in high school who were intelligent, but they fit in with everyone else. You wouldn’t expect to be able to have a “deep conversation” with them, but that was only because they weren’t constantly walking around trying to start up deep conversations. I do have to say that no matter how smart you and your peers are, the depth you’re going to hit on those conversations is still probably going to be pretty shallow. Not that that’s bad… it’s part of growing up.
Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that people are going to “target” you because you’re smart. If you’re humble, a decent human being, and you don’t intentionally make other people feel stupid, most people will think of you as a smart, nice guy, and leave it at that. Because, believe it or not, most people don’t really spend that much time thinking about you.
The people who tend to be targets (and I’m not trying to make an oblique attack on CaliforniaLaw, here) are people who take themselves way too seriously, and whose only real attribute is their intelligence or perception of it. So they go out of their way to let everyone know how smart they are, every minute of every day. And that is annoying. So avoid doing that, and I think you’ll be fine.
Thank you for probably the best reply I have gotten. I know what you mean about people who identify themselves with little else but their intelligence, and they are generally incredibly obnoxious and arrogant human beings. Whether or not I am doing that now, I do not do that in the real world.
I haven’t even told anyone what my IQ is when people have asked. Most people that haven’t known me for at least a month are surprised that I am smart when they do know me. So you could classify me as someone who “dumbs himself down”. That is bascially what I do, but it really wears on a person after a while.
I never said I had no friends, was socially outcast, etc. Also, I don’t walk around trying to start-up deep conversations.
[/quote]
Knowing that you are smart,and been humble about it are two different things.
People that havent know you for at least a month are surprised that you are smart?? how so?? do you look stupid? does it take more than a month to really know that you are smart?
If people is always asking what your I.Q. is, have you ever think that it could be the other way round??
By replying some post you really start-up some discussion which is fair and fun at some point,.
so tell us how many times have you seen good will hunting???
If (if) you were really smart,you will listen and shut up.
Neophorm…thanks for the correction Cattel 3…doh!
Yes I have taken it, about 19yrs ago… hence my error and 148 is not, as you pointed out, the genius point, but the Mensa entry level which is actually only the top 2% rather than the top .25%.
http://www.wilderdom.com/intelligence/IQWhatScoresMean.html
The comment about IQ only being a potential refered not to intelligence but achievement - no point boasting about a high IQ if you haven’t actually done something useful with it. Every day you don’t learn something is a day wasted. And even a not particularly “clever” individual can, through application and study, achieve great things.
And the point that I put across most incoherently, was that most of the posts up to that point, didn’t show a lot of IQ, EQ or other intelligence.
Guess I fall into that category too…
[quote]Irish Daza wrote:
no point boasting about a high IQ if you haven’t actually done something useful with it. [/quote]
Very good point. There was an article on one supposed “genius” in a bodybuilding mag a few years ago (Chris Langan). He has apparently worked as a bouncer for several years and now lives in the woods with his wife in a ridiculously small cabin. What a great use of…talent (and yes, I am aware of his ‘cognitive theoretic model of the universe’).
When he dies, will anyone truly give a shit that he was supposedly so clinically intelligent? It made me wonder why anyone would waste the paper on an article about him. I guess simply because he lifts weights and is/was a bouncer, this made his life relevant for a bodybuilding mag.
Unless you expect to live your life, die and then have your tombstone read, “Here lies Smart Guy…he had the highest IQ…but like the rest of us, is turning to goo”, what you do in this life is severely more important than worrying about whatever gifts you didn’t have to work for.
How different we are should never separate us from others, for we are all different. Any separation you feel is an illusion you should try to surmount.
Since communication is basically a form of problem solving, a high IQ ought to be a predictor of greater potential for communicating with a wider variety of speakers. What it cannot measure however is the empathy needed to understand other speakers, nor the motivation to actually communicate i.e. listen.
As a high school teacher for going on 26 years, I would say:
(1) The OP is significantly above the mean for intellect and communication skills.
(2) He probably IS isolated somewhat by his intellect. It was wise to choose athletics as a social outlet (rather than doing a Dylan Cliebold).
(3) He is capable of concept-formation. About 70% (guess) are physically and mentally incapable of things like this, such as projecting into the future.
(4) Before the herd tries to turn him into a milch-cow, for the 70% of the world that is composed of incompetents and drooling dolts, he should thoroughly read the works of Ayn Rand. She’ll save your life, kid.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
…he should thoroughly read the works of Ayn Rand. She’ll save your life, kid.[/quote]
Or he’ll get so bored reading about a railroad comapny and a stupid lost motor that he’ll start skimming pages until he gets to Dagny and Hank going at it again.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
…he should thoroughly read the works of Ayn Rand. She’ll save your life, kid.
Or he’ll get so bored reading about a railroad comapny and a stupid lost motor that he’ll start skimming pages until he gets to Dagny and Hank going at it again.[/quote]
Ummm…the ‘stupid lost motor’ eliminates the need for using petrofuels and is non-polluting.
Short attention span, huh?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
(4) Before the herd tries to turn him into a milch-cow, for the 70% of the world that is composed of incompetents and drooling dolts, he should thoroughly read the works of Ayn Rand. She’ll save your life, kid.[/quote]
I question whether anyone who actually believes that has much of a life worth saving.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
(4) Before the herd tries to turn him into a milch-cow, for the 70% of the world that is composed of incompetents and drooling dolts, he should thoroughly read the works of Ayn Rand. She’ll save your life, kid.
I question whether anyone who actually believes that has much of a life worth saving.
[/quote]
Why? Were intelligent and ambitious people put here to serve the needs of those who are not intelligent or not ambitious? Do you work hard, for the benefit of the lazy? Does a business person create and grow a business for the benefit of those who didn’t want to be bothered to do likewise?
I’m interested in your take on this, Professor.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Why?
[/quote]
Because while I believe that there isn’t much knowledge on the planet that is useless, those who jump behind Ayn Rand as if her writings are near religion have always struck me as a little…off. That’s why. Based on our other discussions, you have pretty much sealed that opinion for me even more than Mentzer did.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Why?
Because while I believe that there isn’t much knowledge on the planet that is useless, those who jump behind Ayn Rand as if her writings are near religion have always struck me as a little…off. That’s why. Based on our other discussions, you have pretty much sealed that opinion for me even more than Mentzer did.[/quote]
Hmmm…facing facts and not ignoring them doesn’t seem religious at all. Isn’t such called ‘faith’?
Rather than rip into Ms. Rand or Mr. Mentzer (Rest-Pause rocks btw!), can you please, just this once, answer my questions? I ask you this in all respect due a highly educated man such as yourself.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Why?
Because while I believe that there isn’t much knowledge on the planet that is useless, those who jump behind Ayn Rand as if her writings are near religion have always struck me as a little…off. That’s why. Based on our other discussions, you have pretty much sealed that opinion for me even more than Mentzer did.
Hmmm…facing facts and not ignoring them doesn’t seem religious at all. Isn’t such called ‘faith’?
Rather than rip into Ms. Rand or Mr. Mentzer (Rest-Pause rocks btw!), can you please, just this once, answer my questions? I ask you this in all respect due a highly educated man such as yourself.
[/quote]
This thread is not about the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Therefore, no, I will not go into some long drawn out discussion in this thread about Ayn Rand. I could care less about Ayn Rand. You have the freedom to start new threads like the 3,000 new ones you have in the political forum. Start your own thread about Ayn Rand if you wish but why try to completely change the subject of this one?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
…he should thoroughly read the works of Ayn Rand. She’ll save your life, kid.
Or he’ll get so bored reading about a railroad comapny and a stupid lost motor that he’ll start skimming pages until he gets to Dagny and Hank going at it again.
Ummm…the ‘stupid lost motor’ eliminates the need for using petrofuels and is non-polluting.
Short attention span, huh?
[/quote]
Umm, no, not actually. I understand what the motor was, and I understand the message. I can appreciate what a complex and encompassing world she created, but anyone who doesn’t admit that at least some of the book was boring is either lying, or blindly following Rand’s cult. I mean, over 50 pages for Galt’s speech, come on!
This thread is pure fucking insanity. I can’t believe someone came onto an internet forum and proclaimed they are very smart and cant communicate with people, roughly. A high schooler at that. A HIGH SCHOOLER! I’m not far removed from high school I’m only a sophomore in college but Ill be the first to say I’m a fucking idiot. A college athlete, Football player at that, I’m so dumb I hurt my neck in a game and kept playing and hurt it more now I can never play again and have about zero backwards motion in my neck. But I’m about 10x smarter than I was in high school.
Its comical how much I didn’t know in high school. Even in college I know I’m still very naive to the world. The guys who go straight to work out of high school are more in tune with the world than a lot of college guys. Being from a nationally ranked school doesnt mean shit, its all the same bullshit. I’m from a nationally ranked college. So fucking what. It means we’re fortunate enough to be able to pay for a better environment. I took all AP and Honors classes too. So what the valedictorian went to you for help and was a friend of yours, So did our asian valedictorian, she went to me for help sometimes. In your age group you might be the head honcho for intelligence, but in the whole scheme of things your just some kid who thinks he’s hot shit. And its not just you. Whoever else backs you up or thinks the same way, this is for you too.
I know this is a bodybuilding forum and thats why now I think back and am really not at all that surprised at all the comments here. Most of the guys here have egos that are way too big for there own good. Yes, the average person is a fucking moron, but in ways you arent that fucking awesome either. All this talk of how its so hard to stoop down to peoples level to talk them is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t believe that this is actually a topic of discussion. everyone is so full of shit. IQ tests and other grades are not the only markers for being a smart person. The most important thing is to be open about other things. You don’t need to agree with them or change your opinion, but realize that some test made I don’t even know how many years ago is not the end all for intelligence. The lower IQs of the world have no trouble talking to you, so it makes you stupid if you cant communicate with them.
So shut up and get off your high horse.