Insulin Use During Bulk

Pharma
82

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Well leucine, iso-leucine and valine are of course the 3 amino acids found in BCAAs.

It has been reported that BCAAs (probably just one of the 3, but I don’t know/can’t be arsed to find out) cause an insulin response.

However, it can’t hurt to ingest a load of BCAAs with your slin (or at any other time really).

Bushy[/quote]

Maybe I’m thinking too far into this but I am trying to plan out the perfect PWO and post injection shake. So far I am using about 60 grams whey protein, 10 grams creatine, 10 grams glutamine, 5 grams leucine and 60 grams maltodextrin with 16oz skim milk. I figure if I am in a state of enhanced nutrient transport I might as well saturate myself with helpful nutrients.

83

[quote]2thepain wrote:
I read in one article that adding L-Leucine to PWO shakes will enhance the effects of insulin as it is a vital part of the nutrient loading process. I think that this statement applied to “natural” training. Would this same principle hold true with exogenous insulin use? Would there be benefit in adding large doses of L-Leucine to PWO shake while using slin?[/quote]

L-Leucine does stimulate natural insulin production, but I doubt it would give you the same response with exogenous insulin. Just like taking Alpha Male while taking test would be pointless.

84

[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:
2thepain wrote:
I read in one article that adding L-Leucine to PWO shakes will enhance the effects of insulin as it is a vital part of the nutrient loading process. I think that this statement applied to “natural” training. Would this same principle hold true with exogenous insulin use? Would there be benefit in adding large doses of L-Leucine to PWO shake while using slin?

L-Leucine does stimulate natural insulin production, but I doubt it would give you the same response with exogenous insulin. Just like taking Alpha Male while taking test would be pointless.[/quote]

That was my initial thought when I first read the article. There is a small amount of L-Leucine in my protein and BCAAs already so I am not going to be deficient. I will probably omit excessive amounts of L-Leucine from my PWO shake as I have found in the past that large amounts of aminos at once can mess up my digestive system.

86

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I personally think that taking maltodextrin with exo insulin is not a good idea, because the GI profile of the malto is too high and stimulates a natural insulin release. This makes the exo slin unneccesary, and potentially ‘damaging’ since studies have shown that it is elevated peak levels of insulin (i.e. exo combined with endo) that trigger insulin receptor downreg. and therefore insulin resistance.

Personally, I take in only low GI carbs whenever I use insulin.

Bushy[/quote]

What is your personal choice of high GI carb. I already ordered the maltodextrin buy can easily save it for natural training times. Are there any high GI carbs (that you would reccommend) that are easily mixed into a PWO shake?

88

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
That’s my point; I only take in low GI garbs with insulin.

Oats, soaked in apple juice generally.

Bushy[/quote]

Sorry, I ment to say low GI carbs. So oats soaked in apple juice. What kind of oats? I’m asuming that this is drank/eaten in addition to PWO shake, not mixed in. Sorry for the 20 ?s, I have not eaten plain oats before, aside from oatmeal.

91

I’m lovin’ this thread, keep up the good work boys!

92

[quote]timhlbrk wrote:
I’m lovin’ this thread, keep up the good work boys![/quote]

I hope to get some real world results coming soon. I will be starting my cycle in less than 2 weeks. I will be starting a new thread though as insulin use will be only a small part of the cycle.

93

[quote]2thepain wrote:
timhlbrk wrote:
I’m lovin’ this thread, keep up the good work boys!

I hope to get some real world results coming soon. I will be starting my cycle in less than 2 weeks. I will be starting a new thread though as insulin use will be only a small part of the cycle.[/quote]

Good Luck Brother

94

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
Disclaimer: A “chemical noob” question.

Why would injecting insulin cause more muscle growth if it’s not PWO? Since insulin is also a fat storing hormone, wouldn’t it just act the same as eating an insulin spiking meal?

I’m not questioning you guys, but am genuinely curious.

A good question.

During the PWO period, I believe that you can get all the glycogen storage function you need from spiking natty slin through use of a high GI carb meal, with protein.

Use of exo slin during this time may have added benefit, but will almost certainly lead you doen the path of insulin resistance.

Using slin in conjunsction with a low GI meal, i.e. the kind of meal that will NOT spike insulin by itself, allows you to gain the benefit of insulin but without having to ingest a lot of fast acting carbs which can negatively affect the rest of your day and cause water retention and tiredness.

Bushy[/quote]

BUT, insulin, as i am sure you know, stores glucose as fat, if all glycogen stores are full… so simply injecting more insulin, is only gonna shuttle the nutrients to any available stores and then fat stores isnt it?

I mean, how does it promote muscle building then? how is it anabolic, it doesnt “store” protein as tissue does it, and It doesnt hypertrophy the muscle cells so they can take more glycogen… so in my logic, it is only going to do with the low GI carbs you ate, what would happen ANYWAY but just quicker, as there is a spike, not a slow release. Which is store them, either in the muscles or as adipose.

Is this the reason for taking it morning when fasted, so as to ensure the glycogen stores are low, and/or PWO? In which case, i am brought back to my original question, how is that more anabolic than our own insulin response?

The only thing that does hypertrophy cells to enable them to store more glycogen, is resistance training, which we do anyway, and we take advantage of their need for nutrients by eating fast, then med, then low GI carbs with protein and EFA’s as our PWO nutrition… so how does the exo slin work in a more anabolic way?

You can see my questions, i hope they make sense, it is only really one question!

I am just curious, not arguing!

Joe

95

ok so i use insulin (humulin-r from cvs) this is how i use it:

mon wed and fri i use insulin

meals 1,3,and 5
5 units each time to start working to 8 units

i take 5 units then eat
6 oz OJ
1 cup oatmeal
1/2 can of pie filling
1 scoop of whey protein

i eat that for each meal.

on my insulin days i do NOT take in any fat except whats in oatmeal and chicken but not even omega 3’s

does theis sound right if not give me your opinions

96

[quote]midwestmuscle73 wrote:
ok so i use insulin (humulin-r from cvs) this is how i use it:

mon wed and fri i use insulin

meals 1,3,and 5
5 units each time to start working to 8 units

i take 5 units then eat
6 oz OJ
1 cup oatmeal
1/2 can of pie filling
1 scoop of whey protein

i eat that for each meal.

on my insulin days i do NOT take in any fat except whats in oatmeal and chicken but not even omega 3’s

does theis sound right if not give me your opinions[/quote]

Personally I would say this is not the best way to use it.

However, I cannot say 100% that I have used it to its fullest potential. I only use during heavy bulking cycles and only the day following my heaviest workouts. My workouts are all at night so the morning after I will wait until my second meal and shoot 8iu. As with yourself no fat is consumed but I eat three times in 2.5-3 hours following the injection. I also use the slin 3x per week.

BBB can help you out more, but since HowieFElterwhatever starting posting stupid insulin posts BBB may not respond:(

99

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
midwestmuscle73 wrote:
ok so i use insulin (humulin-r from cvs) this is how i use it:

mon wed and fri i use insulin

meals 1,3,and 5
5 units each time to start working to 8 units

i take 5 units then eat
6 oz OJ
1 cup oatmeal
1/2 can of pie filling
1 scoop of whey protein

i eat that for each meal.

on my insulin days i do NOT take in any fat except whats in oatmeal and chicken but not even omega 3’s

does theis sound right if not give me your opinions

Why do you drink the OJ? It will trigger an insulin response all of its own.

BBB

[/quote]
And the pie filling will be even a greater response.