Insulin Use During Bulk

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Pretzel Logic wrote:
That’s why I like Humalog and don’t understand the use of long acting insulin for bodybuilding. But then, I am not an expert.

I agree, it just makes sense to use the fastest acting insulin available for these purposes. I was reading on a diabetic website and thought that it mentioned novolog as being the fastest acting insulin. It is supposed to be active from 15 minutes to about 3-3.5 hours. I haven’t ordered any insulin yet as I understand that its shelf life is rather short (1 month), so I won’t order until it is about time to use.
When it comes to the fastest acting insulin I very well could be wrong, so if I am please someone call me out on it. I will reread some of the insulin profiles and see if I can answer my own question. Thanks
[/quote]

Humalog and Novalog are going to be pretty much the same,just different companies. My son uses Humalog. I know they say shelf life is 30 days but that is technically at room temperature. It lasts much longer refridgerated. To be honest, when he was a baby we sometimes used the same vial for 2-3 months…without refidgeration. So if you want to buy now, go for it, just throw it in the fridge.

23

Thanks again for all the input guys. Currently I am planning on running slin for a 4 week period in the middle of my next cycle. The cycle will start in about 6-7 weeks. I also plan on running a log during this time. There are several reasons for the log. For one this is the first time I will be running a combination of compounds at the same time. I plan on including (test,tren,dbol,IGF,MGF,insulin,and hcg). I also feel that by running a log I will be able to ask questions as they come up and get some help from the experienced vets on this forum.

Several weeks before the actual cycle starts I will start a new thread and layout my diet, training, stats and cycle so I can get final feedback before I begin. I’m sure this will be learning experience for myself as well as others who read it.

25

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
OK my friend has given me a spare ‘NovoRapid Flexpen’.

I’m looking at the novo nordisk website and this stuff looks quite good.

It’s active within 10 minutes and the pen allows me to just dial in the units of insulin required. There is also a dose window on the pen to check that the full expected dose has been delivered.

This stuff is designed to minimise the risk of nightime hypos by 74%.

However I’ll probably only use it in the mornings following a particularly intense workout, maybe legs only.

Bushy[/quote]

Besides the ease of use, is the rate and duration of effects of the drug in the pen about the same as humalog/novalog? I am looking long and hard for the fastest acting and fastest clearing insulin for obvious reasons.

27

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Well put it this way…

The friend who gave it to me was on regular fast acting slin, i.e the kind you have to inject before eating sincce it takes 30 minutes to work (just like humalog).

His doc put him on this stuff but neglected to say that it would act quicker.

My friend injected… and then woke up in hospital.

The last thing he remembers is walking out of the coffee shop and getting into his dads car.

The 'slin kicked in before the food he’d eaten, he was driving along and passed out.

The car slowly drifted off the road and hit a tree. It was totalled. He wasn’t.

The funny thing is that 2 cops were driving along in front of him and they said they just saw his car, travelling at a steady 60 miles per hour (legal in the UK) just drift off the road without any change of speed or sudden change of direction.

They said is was one of the wierdest things they’d seen as cops, because no one just ‘drifts’ gently off a straight road.

Lucky they were there to call an ambulance etc.

So yeah, this stuff does seem to be a little more rapid in action than other insulin.

Bushy[/quote]

That sounds like some good stuff, but after reading the info I found on it I think you may need a prescription for it. With the dosing and meal plans that I have laid out the humalog should work just fine for my purposes. Still, good info Bushy.

28

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I love the steroid forum, and lately it seems to be slightly crudded up with uninteresting shit, and so when someone like you takes shit to another level and is smart and enjoys sharing the experience with us, it makes up for all the lame/boring type shit that gets posted…!2thepain wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
ToneBone

I think it may have more to do with your own education and stage of learning.

What I mean is that as an uber newbie, which you once were (as we all were) every post carries a certain level of interest. Then, as your own level of knowledge and experience increases, you start to notice the less ‘exciting’ posts more and more, and become slightly jaded with the same old posts, asking the asme old questions again and again.

If you are like a lot of previous posters, you fuck off somewhere else, looking to further increase your knowledge, and scorning T-Nation for being so ‘unadvanced’ or whatever.

Some posters stick arouind and flame newbies, forgetting that we ALL had to start somewhere in our quest for enlightenment.

Hell here’s a confession: My first cycle was dbol only! Fortunately I knew just enough to run a little nolva with it when water retention got bad, and clomid for pct.

Did I learn something? You bet! Don’t run dbol only and expect anything lasting.

Anyway, my point is that none of us were borne with a steroid encyclopedia in our gobs, and anyone who tries to make you think otherwise is a fraud.

So, in the ‘lifecycle’ of the typical T-Nation steroid forum poster/contributor (and there is a difference between the two, with fortunately less ‘posters’ and more ‘contributors’ in this forum over say the ‘get a life’ forum :wink: ) we have the newbie-vets who fuck off and leave, thinking they’ve oputgrown the place, and then we have the gritty boys who stick around, even though they know a shitload about all sorts of things and are somewhat jaded with the place.

These are the ‘unsung heroes’ of T-Nation, the ‘core elements’ who maintain the knowledge base and step into the light as and when needed to curtail any misinformation and general ‘bro-telligence’ that pops up from time to time.

These are the guys that keep it real. Guys like (in no particular order) Prisoner, schwartz, morepain, rainjack and others.

There used to be more but some are MIA (saspassion) and others are more interested in other areas (KSman), whilst others are developing a solid rep over time. Lets hope they don’t get bored and leave.

My point is that to keep this place alive and kicking with titillating information, we need to first of all be here to post and secondly, we need to do what we can to repay our dues by being active and open minded, not scaring newbies away (even if some may be dickwads for want of a better word). Who knows, some of the newbies might turn out to be the next Rick Collins, or be influential in pro-steroid lobbying. It would be a shame to send them away with “You know nothing, don’t bother me again, idiot!” ringing in their ears.

People like yourself play a very important role too Tone. I mean if you weren’t open to the idea of trialing different cycle ideas for us, then we’d lose a valuable part of the whole equation; the experimental pioneer.

After all, when you think about it, it’s not really me that is experimenting, it is you, and other guys like contrl, cadav, clayton, dave, sdspeedracer and indeed ALL the guys who put themselves forward to be a part of something bigger.

Damn, I’m getting all emotional. Fuck it, I’m off to bed, hahaha.

Bushy[/quote]

Hell, I “popped my cherry” with this site and will always be loyal to to all those who made it a success!

29

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Basically, there are 2 ways you can go about creatin a state of insulin resistance…

Be a sugar-consuming sedentary freak.

Inject insulin.

These are the inroads to type II diabetes.[/quote]

As of today, I’m wondering if there’s a third way. Wired magazine mentioned that researchers have found taste receptors for sweetness in the digestive tract, which amp up insulin production.

(Reconsidering my 2-liter-per-day artifically-sweetened diet cola habit.)

Jake

30

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Using slin in conjunction with a low GI meal, i.e. the kind of meal that will NOT spike insulin by itself, allows you to gain the benefit of insulin but without having to ingest a lot of fast acting carbs which can negatively affect the rest of your day and cause water retention and tiredness.[/quote]

Wouldn’t using insulin in conjunction with a low GI meal be a recipe for a disastrous hypoglycemic condition?

(Unless it’s a slow-acting insulin, of course.)

Jake

32

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
jwillow wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Using slin in conjunction with a low GI meal, i.e. the kind of meal that will NOT spike insulin by itself, allows you to gain the benefit of insulin but without having to ingest a lot of fast acting carbs which can negatively affect the rest of your day and cause water retention and tiredness.

Wouldn’t using insulin in conjunction with a low GI meal be a recipe for a disastrous hypoglycemic condition?

(Unless it’s a slow-acting insulin, of course.)

Jake

Well logically, I can see where you’re coming from, but diabetics do it ALL the time.

I think it has more to do with the presence of carbs in the blood, and less to do with the type of carbs in the GI tract.

Even slow release carbs (for example, I had oats, presoaked in apple juice with dried apple slices for breakfast, along with 150g of protein) will trigger some sort of insulin release (in healthy people) however it won’t be enough to ‘forcefeed’ the muscles with a high insulin spike.

I’m actually starting to wonder if it isn’t possible to become leaned whilst using insulin. For instance, if I am signalling my muscles (and liver) to uptake the slow release carbs as glycogen, rather than using them as energy substrates through out the morning, then where is my ‘living energy’ coming from? I’m assuming that other substrates (fatty acids) are being liberated to provide this energy.

I’m sadly not advanced enough in my physiology to provide a definite answer though.

Bushy[/quote]

Bushy,
I think I would tend to lean toward your thinking as well, the potential is there to better utilize the glycogen in your blood…thus leaving less to be unused and stored.

34

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I’m also starting to see why the PWO insulin (although potentially disastrous for insulin sensitivity) is a necessary evil when trying to induce SERIOUS muscle growth.

It takes hyperinsulinemia combined with excess androgens and GH to create the right ‘climate’ for hyperplasia and/or satellite cell incorporation or whatever mechanisms occur within skeletal muscle to take the user way past the genetic ceiling.

Bushy[/quote]

Would this imply that the morning after insulin use we discussed earlier would be notibly less effective than a PWO dose. I am not really interested in my insulin sensitivity as my use will be limited to only 4 weeks. I am however greatly interested in getting some SERIOUS muscle growth from my slin use. Most of what I have read has used PWO as the standard and if Bushy agrees than I will need to be changing my workout schedule and eating times accordingly.

35

Once again I have changed my prospective dosing protocol for slin. I am now thinking of making all injections PWO. These will occur on Sat/Sun/Tues/and Thur. The reason for the switch is that I want to take the three hours after my injection and workout to eat a lot. I plan on an equal mix of high GI carbs, low GI carbs and protein eaten every 30 minutes following injection.
From what I’ve read about my humalog is that it is active in about 10 min. and peaks at around 1-2 hours. It should be cleared from the system in about 3.5 hours.
My main question is for anyone who has ran slin before or anyone who has seen the effects of humalog first hand. Since my Tues and Thurs workouts take place at 7:00 PM I will not get home until 8:30. At this time I will inject the slin and commence eating. I usually go to bed at about 11:00PM. At this point I will have had the slin in my system for app. 2.5 hours and in theory the peak time should be over. However the slin is still in my system. If I were to eat right before I go to bed do you think that I will fine for the remaining 1/2-1 hour that the slin is still in my system. Obviously I am going to stay up the first couple of nights until 12:00 just to monitor my blood sugar but I am just wondering what your experience leads you to beleive. Is it still possible to go hypoglycemic after the insulins peak wears off?
Sorry for the relentless questions but this is something that I must have down to a science before I feel comfortable enough to begin.

36

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Is it still possible to go hypoglycemic after the insulins peak wears off?
Sorry for the relentless questions but this is something that I must have down to a science before I feel comfortable enough to begin.[/quote]

Theorectically I think PWO will give you the best results.
My son used to have a lot of trouble with hypoglycemia during sleep, especially after a particularly active day. HOWEVER he was using the Humolog in conjunction with Lantus which is a 24 hr insulin used to keep base levels steady. But if it got messed up we were in for an allnighter. That said, since he’s gone to a pump that is exclusively Humolog we haven’t seen those big dips.

Just be careful. If you wake up feeling strange or hungry, get something fast. Keep a sugary drink (we use gel frosting tubes) near the bed in case. You also may want to set an alarm for 1:00-2:00 AM and check your blood.

37

Thanks again Roofus. I think also as an added caution I will move my workouts up to 6:30 on those days and take advantage of the extra time to monitor my blood levels and eat a little more. I also will plan on setting my alarm for 1 hour after I go to sleep so I can wake up and check my levels.

I usually get up at 3:00AM to eat anyway, but maybe I will plan on 2 night meals while on the slin. Do you think that 1 hour is a short enough duration to counter any hypo condition that may begin to set in during rest? I will be eating right before I go to bed.

38

Just a newb thought but this all seems really dangerous. Is it really worth it. Like are the gains that incredible?

39

[quote]dirtbag wrote:
Just a newb thought but this all seems really dangerous. Is it really worth it. Like are the gains that incredible? [/quote]

I can’t give you any numbers as far as gains are concerned. However, if done properly slin can be used safely. Yes, there are certain precautions that must be taken to ensure this, hence the amount of research and planning that goes into something like this.

If someone decides to use this drug for performance enhancing purposes then they need to dedicate themselves to learning as much as possible about the drug and its effects.

40

Would shooting my slin IM instead of SubQ cause a faster onset and clearance of the drug? I understand that this would require more caution i.e. asparation and prior consumption of carbs, but could this be a way to help prevent nighttime hypoglycemia?