Insomnia Since Starting TRT

Pharma TRT
773

@narcissusford @enackers @systemlord

Hi gents. I hope you are keeping well, I haven’t been on this forum for a long time, I’ve had my head down and just trying to get myself well.

I wanted to ask you guys about my TRT protocol which is daily test cyp 16.5mg and 1mg aromasin eod (from a compound pharmacy)

My levels are pretty stable but I don’t feel good, libido is poor and energy wise not great.
I wanted your views on daily injections and whether you think they are necessary?

My docs philosophy is that daily injections mimic natural production but I don’t know too much about test Cyp, how would daily compare to say twice a week? 365 pins a year seems daunting!!!

Anyway just wanted alternative views and thought you boys could help.

Thanks :pray:

774

It does not. Your doc doesn’t understand esterification of drugs. It limits your hormone spikes and troughs to make levels as flat as possible.
Your aromasin dose is somewhere between self-abuse and retarded. What are your surrent labs? You mentioned a very long time ago in thos thread having terrible levels of both test and E2 after switching to sub-Q. I am still confused as to why the solution to that was upping the dose, when th logical course of action would have been going back to IM and maybe cutting the dose a little. Your E2 dropped to 13 because your total T was a craptastic 460. No magic there, and it did not reveal any special beauty to sub-Q for E2 reduction. Cutting your dose in half would have done the same thing without changing the way you inject.

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775

Thanks for your input. Admittedly my TRT knowledge is limited. I put my care into the hands of a new doctor who seems to be very up and coming over here In the UK with his methods, I put my total trust into him to fix me. Myself and a few others are questioning his methods which is why I wanted to ask on this forum.
I totally respect your thoughts on this and I know you know your stuff. Thank you

777

I know that your case is somewhat complicated, with PTSD and sleep apnea both having been a problem. That said, I would be surprised if your compounded aromasin actually contains any aromasin. That may seem a serious allegation, but whatever. I don’t think that you are in fact taking any AI whatsoever, and should probably consider a very small reduction in dose regarding your test cypionate.

778

I’m going to request a reduction in dose and I would also like to go eod, but my doc won’t like this request and we are limited for TRT docs over here!

779

The dosing for aromosain and arimidex are vastly different, like 25x different, so 1mg of aromosain is comparable to like .04mg of arimidex. Not a perfect conversion but something like that. I believe everyone is seeing the 1mg number and thinking of it like arimidex, which it obviously isn’t.

That’s the only reason I would maybe believe your e2 isn’t totally crashed. I still don’t agree with you needing it at all, but might explain your numbers at least.

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780

Contrary to the experience of many, I feel that I actually prefer once a week. Better libido, and everything else seems the same. I am not bothered by fluctuations and experience no need for extraordinary measures in that regard. What you do, and what he thinks you do don’t have to be the same thing.

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781

I am going off of levels from his previous posts in coming to that conclusion. Aromasin is also considered significantly more potent than arimidex, a little goes a long way.

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782

What do you think about my numbers? I know it’s in UK measures so I converted it to T 830 E2 20
I feel better than I did but not great

783

Personally I’d want e2 higher but I haven’t read through the rest of your thread to recall if you had issues that would go counter to that

784

This is what I’m thinking, myself and a few other guys think daily is excessive. Tbh I’ve been thru that much crap I don’t really want to unhinge things right now but it doesn’t stop me wondering how I would feel on eod or twice weekly

785

I always had high E2 and this caused insomnia

786

Get off aromasin. Time and time again guys who are lowering estrogen always complains of libido, well being, Brain fog, lipid issues,
Blood pressure or many of the above.

Get off that junk. Continue daily and stop worrying about estrogen.

I have no clue where my estrogen is. I don’t have any issues at all. I just got married and I’ve been having libido twice a day for weeks.

Estrogen is not something you want to control. It’s something you want to rise naturally with free t and DHT.

Trt 101. Estrogen produced half or more of the benefits we are looking for in TRT.

I realize you say insomnia is related to estrogen; but how do you know since you made other changes like switching to daily, dose and aromasin at the same time?

End of day if manage my dose and not screw with my estrogen: it’s just way too important brother:

Hope that helps . I’m just speaking from my experience and research on TRT. Also allot of this comes straight from my doctor who has taught me a ton on the subject.

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788

Thanks for your reply as always. I tried without aromasin but my E2 shot up and I felt awful, it’s only a very tiny amount I am taking but nevertheless I wish I didn’t have to take it.
I’m going to speak with my doctor in 4 weeks time to see if I could potentially lower my t dose and drop the aromasin

789

Yes yes

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790

Hey Pilchard,

I read this whole thread last night while I was laying on the sofa. I’m like you, in the UK and struggle with high E2 when on TRT. I found a new doctor through Balance My Hormones who I’m working with, and although I’m not in the sweet spot yet, I feel like they actually know what they’re doing and are making sure we make adjustments at the right time and monitor accordingly.

Also, like you, I’m prone to reading and making lots and lots of changes to try and fix things (I’m also struggling with insomnia at the moment, which is how I found your post), but the trick is small changes in a controlled fashion, with bloods - otherwise you’ll never work it out.

So - the reason for this post is that I “think” you were almost there, and then changed a load of things and went down a different track. Between the blood test in this post and the one before, you noted that you experienced a period of feeling good, but then crashed your E2 - which you did.

Fundamentally, your bloods looked good, you were just taking too much aramosin/arimidex. If you could get your Oestradiol levels up to around 100/110 I think you’d be “dialed in”.

Oestradiol too high (for you): Insomnia Since Starting TRT - #702 by pilchard

Libido disappeared: Insomnia Since Starting TRT - #729 by pilchard (you’d dropped too low on Oestradiol here)

You were sleeping: Insomnia Since Starting TRT - #731 by pilchard

Too Low: July 19 - Insomnia Since Starting TRT - #732 by pilchard

Based on this, I think your Oestradiol “sweet spot” is somewhere between 69 and 146 pmol/dl (similar to mine). I find my libido is the best weather vane for where I am on test/estrogen - basically it works like this:

Oestradiol too low: I don’t care about sex and nor does my penis
Oestradiol in the right place: I care about sex and so does my penis
Oestradiol too high: I care about sex but my penis does not

791

Interesting. Honestly I think men should not bother with ai and just find a dose that produces the symptom relief. Looking at labs I bet he could get into a good range and not need to cause this artificial drop in e. Problem is getting off, letting the body heal and reboot. If he continues messing with his E he will always be bothering with his numbers and constantly modify his dose based on symptoms every few months or whatever.

It causes more bad then good. It could be lowering his E in areas of the body that cannot be measured. This is why it’s best practice not to use these meds.

You can reference anabolic doc who rehabs BB after abuse and puts men on TRT. He and many others have recently stated ai should be used sparingly and if it is used, administer with a short term plan … don’t use it too long because it will cause problems with the heart and eventually heart attack. Not my words, these are the docs and that video is on YouTube.

I honestly think this is partly why we had so many strokes and heart attacks a couple decades ago and why TRT got the bad name and docs were sued. They were giving too much AI and didn’t realize the detrimental effects it caused to their patients. It’s totally plausible.

There are so many solutions to manage our dose and out comes. Use different esters, frequency, dosing, different types of application of T like cream.

792

You have to have patience. You cannot expect this to be fixed overnight or in a couple weeks right?

Since the post was restarted, let us know What happened since the last post. Hope all is well.

793

didn’t read the entire thread but if I take too much T basic functions like sleep suffer big time.

794

This drug helps you fall asleep easier and improves overall sleep quality. It sounds like your sleep quality is being effect by withdrawal.