Thoughts? Hearsay? exaggeration? or is there more substance behind this?
I would be sad to hear the truth, just not surprised : \
They don’t give any explanation, or speculation, as to what weapons would cause this. All they say is that some blame advanced weapons. I don’t think they used depleted uranium rounds or biological/chemical weapons there, so what exactly would cause this?
This may just be a case of people blaming those “evil Americans”.
[quote]Scuba19 wrote:
They don’t give any explanation, or speculation, as to what weapons would cause this. All they say is that some blame advanced weapons. I don’t think they used depleted uranium rounds or biological/chemical weapons there, so what exactly would cause this?
This may just be a case of people blaming those “evil Americans”.[/quote]
Depleted uranium is exactly what they used there.
Maybe you would like to google some pics, they are interesting, to say the least.
DU rounds are usually used against armor. Did the insurgents have tanks or armored personnel carriers?
I was reading about this last night, there a rumors of a child being born with three heads.
[quote]hedo wrote:
DU rounds are usually used against armor. Did the insurgents have tanks or armored personnel carriers?[/quote]
Youre right they are designed for armor but they are used against people and buildings as well.
Wasn’t white phosphorus used in Fallujah? I can’t imagine that exposure to that would be very good on the human body
Regardless of HOW they are used, the issue is lingering radioactivity but more importantly very fine particulate material which is highly toxic and does not disperse.
Several studies in Iraq and Afganistan have indicated that residents in towns where DU was employed have uranium levels in the body 200-2000+ normal levels. Some do many of our veterans. Gulf war syndrome my ass. I am glad I got out before this nightmare. FYI there are 15 countries that deploy DU ammunition.
Some pictures I was able to find, GULF WAR SYNDROME BIRTH DEFECTS IN IRAQ CHILDREN BABIES EXTREME BIRTH DEFORMITIES DEPLETED URANIUM AMMUNITION
I’ve never heard anything about this and it is very disturbing.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
[quote]hedo wrote:
DU rounds are usually used against armor. Did the insurgents have tanks or armored personnel carriers?[/quote]
Youre right they are designed for armor but they are used against people and buildings as well.[/quote]
I’ve shot plenty of them out of the main gun. Can’t imagine a building in Fallujah that would stand up to an HE round…why shoot a DU round through one. It’s a penetrator it would pass through a person or building. It’s designed to punch through the armor of a tank and bounce around inside shredding the operators and fucking up the equipment.
Sounds like a civilian urban myth.
[quote]hedo wrote:
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
[quote]hedo wrote:
DU rounds are usually used against armor. Did the insurgents have tanks or armored personnel carriers?[/quote]
Youre right they are designed for armor but they are used against people and buildings as well.[/quote]
I’ve shot plenty of them out of the main gun. Can’t imagine a building in Fallujah that would stand up to an HE round…why shoot a DU round through one. It’s a penetrator it would pass through a person or building. It’s designed to punch through the armor of a tank and bounce around inside shredding the operators and fucking up the equipment.
Sounds like a civilian urban myth.[/quote]
I know what there used for, I also know lots of soldiers have been killed while on the ground from DU shot from Hawgs.
Im sure you know all about the friendly cassualties during the Jessica Lynch Debacle.
[quote]hedo wrote:
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
[quote]hedo wrote:
DU rounds are usually used against armor. Did the insurgents have tanks or armored personnel carriers?[/quote]
Youre right they are designed for armor but they are used against people and buildings as well.[/quote]
I’ve shot plenty of them out of the main gun. Can’t imagine a building in Fallujah that would stand up to an HE round…why shoot a DU round through one. It’s a penetrator it would pass through a person or building. It’s designed to punch through the armor of a tank and bounce around inside shredding the operators and fucking up the equipment.
Sounds like a civilian urban myth.[/quote]
It’s not a myth.
Found this report from the UN.
These defects could also be caused by left over chemical weapons or chemical weapon liquids leaching into the ground water system and the Euphrates river.
It is easy to blame the Americans, but there are likely many other sources of these birth defects.
Iraq produced large amounts of Chemical Mustard, and stored it in a liquid form. Most of the chemical weapons that were monitored by the UN were located in the Muthanna Chemical Complex, including filled 155 shells of chemical mustard (link #1 below). Muthanna is about 100 km (this is a guess, I don’t remember the exact distace) NE of Fallujah Chemical weapons storage sites were located in the vicinity of the Al Taqqadum Air Base, on the West side of the city of Fallujah ( link #2 below). Chemical weapon precurser plants were located north of Fallujah in Habbaniyah (link #2). These sites were bombed heavily during the 91 war and destroyed in the 2003 war. It is plausible that undiscovered and undeclared underground storage tanks, especially in the plants to the north of fallujah, are leaking.
UN reports indicated that chemical weapons were stashed all around the country, and several thousand weapons were un-accounted for. The weapons made prior to the 91 war were also notoriously leaky (link #1 UN Report). There could be leaky chemical mustard artillery shells in and around Fallujah. The UN was also unable to account for a large quantity of precurser chemicals, these chemicals could also be located in and around Fallujah (link #1 UN Report).
Mustard gas chemicals are highly toxic, persistent, and have been shown to cause birth defects(link 3). It is more plausible that the US bombing of Iraqi chemical facilities located around Fallujah in the 91 and the 2003 war caused underground storage tanks to rupture, contaminating ground water around Fallujah.
It is politically convienient and preferrable to blame the Americans. There just isn’t much research to suggest that the DU rounds cause the birth defects. American Marines and Soldiers have been exposed to just as much DU as the residents, in the air and the soil. I just don’t see the same birth defects in US servicemen, with the exception being those that suffered from “Gulf War Syndrome”, which has been blamed on chemical weapon exposure.
Anyway, check out the links yourself and so some research.
-
UN Reports on Iraq Chemical Weapons : http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/quarterly_reports/s-2004-693.pdf and
http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/s/971203_sites.htm -
CIA Map of Iraq chemical facilities: https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/images/ch5_img01.jpg
-
Chemical Mustard toxicity: Mustard gas (PIM 354) Relevant in vitro data
[quote]BH6 wrote:
These defects could also be caused by left over chemical weapons or chemical weapon liquids leaching into the ground water system and the Euphrates river.
It is easy to blame the Americans, but there are likely many other sources of these birth defects.
Iraq produced large amounts of Chemical Mustard, and stored it in a liquid form. Most of the chemical weapons that were monitored by the UN were located in the Muthanna Chemical Complex, including filled 155 shells of chemical mustard (link #1 below). Muthanna is about 100 km (this is a guess, I don’t remember the exact distace) NE of Fallujah Chemical weapons storage sites were located in the vicinity of the Al Taqqadum Air Base, on the West side of the city of Fallujah ( link #2 below). Chemical weapon precurser plants were located north of Fallujah in Habbaniyah (link #2). These sites were bombed heavily during the 91 war and destroyed in the 2003 war. It is plausible that undiscovered and undeclared underground storage tanks, especially in the plants to the north of fallujah, are leaking.
UN reports indicated that chemical weapons were stashed all around the country, and several thousand weapons were un-accounted for. The weapons made prior to the 91 war were also notoriously leaky (link #1 UN Report). There could be leaky chemical mustard artillery shells in and around Fallujah. The UN was also unable to account for a large quantity of precurser chemicals, these chemicals could also be located in and around Fallujah (link #1 UN Report).
Mustard gas chemicals are highly toxic, persistent, and have been shown to cause birth defects(link 3). It is more plausible that the US bombing of Iraqi chemical facilities located around Fallujah in the 91 and the 2003 war caused underground storage tanks to rupture, contaminating ground water around Fallujah.
It is politically convienient and preferrable to blame the Americans. There just isn’t much research to suggest that the DU rounds cause the birth defects. American Marines and Soldiers have been exposed to just as much DU as the residents, in the air and the soil. I just don’t see the same birth defects in US servicemen, with the exception being those that suffered from “Gulf War Syndrome”, which has been blamed on chemical weapon exposure.
Anyway, check out the links yourself and so some research.
-
UN Reports on Iraq Chemical Weapons : http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/quarterly_reports/s-2004-693.pdf and
http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/s/971203_sites.htm -
CIA Map of Iraq chemical facilities: https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/images/ch5_img01.jpg
-
Chemical Mustard toxicity: Mustard gas (PIM 354) Relevant in vitro data[/quote]
Thanks for that researched, well thought out post. Everybody always wants to immediately blame the Americans, even if there isn’t proof.
[quote]Scuba19 wrote:
[quote]BH6 wrote:
These defects could also be caused by left over chemical weapons or chemical weapon liquids leaching into the ground water system and the Euphrates river.
It is easy to blame the Americans, but there are likely many other sources of these birth defects.
Iraq produced large amounts of Chemical Mustard, and stored it in a liquid form. Most of the chemical weapons that were monitored by the UN were located in the Muthanna Chemical Complex, including filled 155 shells of chemical mustard (link #1 below). Muthanna is about 100 km (this is a guess, I don’t remember the exact distace) NE of Fallujah Chemical weapons storage sites were located in the vicinity of the Al Taqqadum Air Base, on the West side of the city of Fallujah ( link #2 below). Chemical weapon precurser plants were located north of Fallujah in Habbaniyah (link #2). These sites were bombed heavily during the 91 war and destroyed in the 2003 war. It is plausible that undiscovered and undeclared underground storage tanks, especially in the plants to the north of fallujah, are leaking.
UN reports indicated that chemical weapons were stashed all around the country, and several thousand weapons were un-accounted for. The weapons made prior to the 91 war were also notoriously leaky (link #1 UN Report). There could be leaky chemical mustard artillery shells in and around Fallujah. The UN was also unable to account for a large quantity of precurser chemicals, these chemicals could also be located in and around Fallujah (link #1 UN Report).
Mustard gas chemicals are highly toxic, persistent, and have been shown to cause birth defects(link 3). It is more plausible that the US bombing of Iraqi chemical facilities located around Fallujah in the 91 and the 2003 war caused underground storage tanks to rupture, contaminating ground water around Fallujah.
It is politically convienient and preferrable to blame the Americans. There just isn’t much research to suggest that the DU rounds cause the birth defects. American Marines and Soldiers have been exposed to just as much DU as the residents, in the air and the soil. I just don’t see the same birth defects in US servicemen, with the exception being those that suffered from “Gulf War Syndrome”, which has been blamed on chemical weapon exposure.
Anyway, check out the links yourself and so some research.
-
UN Reports on Iraq Chemical Weapons : http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/quarterly_reports/s-2004-693.pdf and
http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/s/971203_sites.htm -
CIA Map of Iraq chemical facilities: https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/images/ch5_img01.jpg
-
Chemical Mustard toxicity: Mustard gas (PIM 354) Relevant in vitro data[/quote]
Thanks for that researched, well thought out post. Everybody always wants to immediately blame the Americans, even if there isn’t proof.[/quote]
You broke it, you own it.
[quote]Scuba19 wrote:
[quote]BH6 wrote:
These defects could also be caused by left over chemical weapons or chemical weapon liquids leaching into the ground water system and the Euphrates river.
It is easy to blame the Americans, but there are likely many other sources of these birth defects.
Iraq produced large amounts of Chemical Mustard, and stored it in a liquid form. Most of the chemical weapons that were monitored by the UN were located in the Muthanna Chemical Complex, including filled 155 shells of chemical mustard (link #1 below). Muthanna is about 100 km (this is a guess, I don’t remember the exact distace) NE of Fallujah Chemical weapons storage sites were located in the vicinity of the Al Taqqadum Air Base, on the West side of the city of Fallujah ( link #2 below). Chemical weapon precurser plants were located north of Fallujah in Habbaniyah (link #2). These sites were bombed heavily during the 91 war and destroyed in the 2003 war. It is plausible that undiscovered and undeclared underground storage tanks, especially in the plants to the north of fallujah, are leaking.
UN reports indicated that chemical weapons were stashed all around the country, and several thousand weapons were un-accounted for. The weapons made prior to the 91 war were also notoriously leaky (link #1 UN Report). There could be leaky chemical mustard artillery shells in and around Fallujah. The UN was also unable to account for a large quantity of precurser chemicals, these chemicals could also be located in and around Fallujah (link #1 UN Report).
Mustard gas chemicals are highly toxic, persistent, and have been shown to cause birth defects(link 3). It is more plausible that the US bombing of Iraqi chemical facilities located around Fallujah in the 91 and the 2003 war caused underground storage tanks to rupture, contaminating ground water around Fallujah.
It is politically convienient and preferrable to blame the Americans. There just isn’t much research to suggest that the DU rounds cause the birth defects. American Marines and Soldiers have been exposed to just as much DU as the residents, in the air and the soil. I just don’t see the same birth defects in US servicemen, with the exception being those that suffered from “Gulf War Syndrome”, which has been blamed on chemical weapon exposure.
Anyway, check out the links yourself and so some research.
-
UN Reports on Iraq Chemical Weapons : http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/quarterly_reports/s-2004-693.pdf and
http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/s/971203_sites.htm -
CIA Map of Iraq chemical facilities: https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/images/ch5_img01.jpg
-
Chemical Mustard toxicity: Mustard gas (PIM 354) Relevant in vitro data[/quote]
Thanks for that researched, well thought out post. Everybody always wants to immediately blame the Americans, even if there isn’t proof.[/quote]
Just because you choose to ignore the evidence doesn’t mean that it’s non-existent.
I know it’s hard to fathom that Americans could do anything wrong.
Iraq produced and stored chemical weapons around Fallujah for about 30 years. Maybe, just maybe the birth defects in Fallujah have more to do with that than the DU. I’m just spitballing here. What was the birth defect rate in Fallujah prior to 91, and after 91 to 2004, compared to now? I can’t find any numbers.
[quote]BH6 wrote:
What was the birth defect rate in Fallujah prior to 91, and after 91 to 2004, compared to now? I can’t find any numbers. [/quote]
I was wondering this as well and have not been able to find anything either. I will admit, however, that my search was not very thorough.
My point is that the US devastated parts of Iraq (the second time, most of it) two times over. Claims of Gulf War syndrome and DU rounds being used in both conflicts are nothing new. Where there is smoke, there usually is fire. I find it more than a coincidence that all of these claims just happened to occur after both conflicts with Iraq.