[quote]ReignIB wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
The problem with regulation is the rich people have all the power, and any regulation set into place on the rich to help the poor end up hurting the poor.
…
[/quote]
Ppl in the top 10% income bracket pay like 80% of all taxes.
[/quote]
No, they don’t.
[quote]orion wrote:
That is true, they are better off because of it.
[/quote]
Unless you’ve looked at the unemployment numbers, oh, in the last two years or so.
I’m pretty sure. Here’s what I’m saying:
Price received - cost of production = wages
Not in general, but since after paying expenses, revenue goes to profit, and there is no profit in this scenario (since he does the work himself and is being paid a return on any investment), the rest all constitutes his wage, and no socialist has a problem with that.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
That is true, they are better off because of it.
[/quote]
Unless you’ve looked at the unemployment numbers, oh, in the last two years or so.[/quote]
Without wanting to go all Zeb on you, 2 years might be a long and important part of your life, for me it really isnt.
Plus, in the very same time millions of Chinese and Indians made significantly more money- I love it how you get all global when it comes to evil exploitation and very territorial when teh wealth shifts from relatively rich people to dirt poor people in other countries.
Chinese need to feed their children too.
[quote]apbt55 wrote:wrong, I everything comes fromthe individual, the collective is nothing without the individual, it is not the other way around.
people working together are still individuals. Just working together.[/quote]
Good to know that I can stab someone in the heart and they won’t die, so long as I make sure all the cardiac cells are still there.
Your ideology is showing.
[quote]You and your arguments are pointless. You argue for something that cannot exist. The collective by definition needs the individual, but then you try to rob the individual. That is a an ilogical relationship and cannot work.
[/quote]
If you ever do read one of my posts, let me know.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]ReignIB wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
The problem with regulation is the rich people have all the power, and any regulation set into place on the rich to help the poor end up hurting the poor.
…
[/quote]
Ppl in the top 10% income bracket pay like 80% of all taxes.
[/quote]
No, they don’t.[/quote]
according to this: Taxation in the United States - Wikipedia
"top 10% pay 68% , and the bottom 50% pay 3.3% "
that’s 2006. given the increasing income disparity in the last 5 years I’d estimate it being much closer to 80% by now.
but even 10%/68% is quite illustrative.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]apbt55 wrote:wrong, I everything comes fromthe individual, the collective is nothing without the individual, it is not the other way around.
people working together are still individuals. Just working together.[/quote]
Good to know that I can stab someone in the heart and they won’t die, so long as I make sure all the cardiac cells are still there.
Your ideology is showing.
[/quote]
Sure, when you hinder the individual cells from cooperating the whole fails.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Aw, people die. How sad. You mean like these people?:
Iraq war:
100,000 civilians dead
Vietnam War:
2,000,000 North Vietnamese civilian dead
1,100,000 NVA dead
700,000 Cambodian civilians dead
50,000 Laotian civilians dead
55,000 Americans dead
1990s Iraq embargo:
400,000 children dead
1962-1980 Guatamala:
at least 60,000 dead
Atom bombing of Japan:
~150,000 civilians dead
These were all killed by US actions. This is just more or less off the top of my head.
What was your point again?
[/quote]
How many starved in China and Russia?
[quote]orion wrote:Without wanting to go all Zeb on you, 2 years might be a long and important part of your life, for me it really isnt.
Plus, in the very same time millions of Chinese and Indians made significantly more money- I love it how you get all global when it comes to evil exploitation and very territorial when teh wealth shifts from relatively rich people to dirt poor people in other countries.
Chinese need to feed their children too.
[/quote]
Who said anything about it being a long and important part of my life? I realize two years is not a long time in the grand scheme of things. But it is a long time to be without a job, a fact that belies your ridiculous statement.
And I’m not talking about wealth shifting from country to country. I’m talking about US companies profiting because they’ve laid off their workers. Impoverishing the American middle class is not necessary to feed China. It is necessary for profit, though.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
…
So the borrowing “creates jobs”, but those jobs dont pay, or barely pay, enough for a person to live on.[/quote]
Says who?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]apbt55 wrote:wrong, I everything comes fromthe individual, the collective is nothing without the individual, it is not the other way around.
people working together are still individuals. Just working together.[/quote]
Good to know that I can stab someone in the heart and they won’t die, so long as I make sure all the cardiac cells are still there.
Your ideology is showing.
[/quote]
Sure, when you hinder the individual cells from cooperating the whole fails.
[/quote]
Exactly.
Let me guess, you still don’t get it?
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Aw, people die. How sad. You mean like these people?:
Iraq war:
100,000 civilians dead
Vietnam War:
2,000,000 North Vietnamese civilian dead
1,100,000 NVA dead
700,000 Cambodian civilians dead
50,000 Laotian civilians dead
55,000 Americans dead
1990s Iraq embargo:
400,000 children dead
1962-1980 Guatamala:
at least 60,000 dead
Atom bombing of Japan:
~150,000 civilians dead
These were all killed by US actions. This is just more or less off the top of my head.
What was your point again?
[/quote]
How many starved in China and Russia?[/quote]
I dunno. I’d have to look it up. But again, what’s your point?
[quote]ReignIB wrote:according to this: Taxation in the United States - Wikipedia
"top 10% pay 68% , and the bottom 50% pay 3.3% "
that’s 2006. given the increasing income disparity in the last 5 years I’d estimate it being much closer to 80% by now.
but even 10%/68% is quite illustrative.
[/quote]
What section are you referring to? Income tax? All taxes?
Anyway, even if they do pay 80% that’s about right, because they have somewhere in the ballpark of 80% of the wealth.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
I’m pretty sure. Here’s what I’m saying:
Price received - cost of production = wages
Not in general, but since after paying expenses, revenue goes to profit, and there is no profit in this scenario (since he does the work himself and is being paid a return on any investment), the rest all constitutes his wage, and no socialist has a problem with that.
[/quote]
ok then, so now there’s more demand for his production.
he sees an opportunity and decides to work for 12 hours to make more bread. he is ok making bread himself still but has no time to take care of the books.
so he hires an accountant part time. accountant charges a fair market fee and the baker is comfortable paying small percent of his profit (which you insist on calling a “wage” for some reason) so that he can concentrate on making more bread.
so far so good?
[quote]orion wrote:
Chinese need to feed their children too.
[/quote]
Just rice, they don’t body build in China.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Capitalism: I choose my destiny. I am responsible for my own success story.
Socialism: I choose a fixed path. I have little ambition to do better.
Capitalism works. Yes the rich are sucking up the wealth, but it’s because they look for those opportunities. Most broke people are dumb and do not attempt to better their situation. Many super rich people started out poor. They have a rare desire to succeed and do so.
There are situations where super rich basically steal wealth by lying or deceiving. We have laws for these situations, but the problem is you can almost buy your court ruling. We need to make examples of the super rich thiefs like we do poor ones. That and get off our fat asses, quit crying, and get to work. [/quote]
This post is exactly the problem I’m talking about. “The poor are dumb!”
Asshole.[/quote]
Asshole, maybe. Realist, yes. How many people with money (from middle class and up) are just plain dumb and have no ambition? Not many. How many poor people are actually smart or work hard? Not many.
This is survival of the fittest still to this day. Fit to survive now is not being able to club everyone to death and kill a buffalo. Fit to survive today is the ability to control a different tool. That tool is money. It’s used for leverage. If you don’t want to educate yourself and evolve and change with the times then fuck you.
Kiyosaki made a great point. You can’t just give poor people money and solve their problems. That money will soon return to the rich. You must teach them how to make money. Just like the give a man a fish analogy.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Aw, people die. How sad. You mean like these people?:
Iraq war:
100,000 civilians dead
Vietnam War:
2,000,000 North Vietnamese civilian dead
1,100,000 NVA dead
700,000 Cambodian civilians dead
50,000 Laotian civilians dead
55,000 Americans dead
1990s Iraq embargo:
400,000 children dead
1962-1980 Guatamala:
at least 60,000 dead
Atom bombing of Japan:
~150,000 civilians dead
These were all killed by US actions. This is just more or less off the top of my head.
What was your point again?
[/quote]
How many starved in China and Russia?[/quote]
I dunno. I’d have to look it up. But again, what’s your point?
[/quote]
Communism doesn’t work and results in shortages and brutality.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:Without wanting to go all Zeb on you, 2 years might be a long and important part of your life, for me it really isnt.
Plus, in the very same time millions of Chinese and Indians made significantly more money- I love it how you get all global when it comes to evil exploitation and very territorial when teh wealth shifts from relatively rich people to dirt poor people in other countries.
Chinese need to feed their children too.
[/quote]
Who said anything about it being a long and important part of my life? I realize two years is not a long time in the grand scheme of things. But it is a long time to be without a job, a fact that belies your ridiculous statement.
And I’m not talking about wealth shifting from country to country. I’m talking about US companies profiting because they’ve laid off their workers. Impoverishing the American middle class is not necessary to feed China. It is necessary for profit, though.
[/quote]
So?
Still the poorest of the poor benefit.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Aw, people die. How sad. You mean like these people?:
Iraq war:
100,000 civilians dead
Vietnam War:
2,000,000 North Vietnamese civilian dead
1,100,000 NVA dead
700,000 Cambodian civilians dead
50,000 Laotian civilians dead
55,000 Americans dead
1990s Iraq embargo:
400,000 children dead
1962-1980 Guatamala:
at least 60,000 dead
Atom bombing of Japan:
~150,000 civilians dead
These were all killed by US actions. This is just more or less off the top of my head.
What was your point again?
[/quote]
How many starved in China and Russia?[/quote]
I dunno. I’d have to look it up. But again, what’s your point?
[/quote]
Communism doesn’t work and results in shortages and brutality. [/quote]
correct. it is a hateful doctrine which doesn’t lead to anything constructive.
there’s America and there’s Switzerland.
but there is no “switzerland” of communism.
just unparalleled brutality.
EDIT: I love the US of A, just don’t want to get into the argument regarding the reasons those wars were waged or political decisions made…
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]apbt55 wrote:wrong, I everything comes fromthe individual, the collective is nothing without the individual, it is not the other way around.
people working together are still individuals. Just working together.[/quote]
Good to know that I can stab someone in the heart and they won’t die, so long as I make sure all the cardiac cells are still there.
Your ideology is showing.
[quote]You and your arguments are pointless. You argue for something that cannot exist. The collective by definition needs the individual, but then you try to rob the individual. That is a an ilogical relationship and cannot work.
[/quote]
If you ever do read one of my posts, let me know.
[/quote]
People are not cells they are organisms, agained flawed logic.
so newtonian physics?