I’ve got a question that I’ve posed to a number of people who favor big government. I’ve yet to hear a satisfactory answer. Of course, I don’t think there is one, which is kind of the point. But I thought I’d share it here and see what I get.
For a capitalist economy to convert to a socialist economy, all privately owned wealth must be converted into publicly shared wealth. However, it is inevitable that not every citizen will agree to give up private ownership of their own wealth. How then does one convert from a capitalist economy to a socialist economy without resorting to theft and/or violence?
You are stating why America will never go socialist; the republicans are trying to scare everybody that if we pass a social program for medical care that we will be socialists.
If the truth be told if a health care bill passes then Obama will say I kept my promise and the Republicans will have no defense in the next election
I think the fiasco of our financial institutions is why America will never go free market. Big business needs regulations, granted minimum amounts. But big business is all about profit, which they should be. But as a Government we have to look after people.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
But as a Government we have to look after people.
[/quote]
But I do not want the likes of you “looking after” me and I am pretty sure you do not want me to look after you because I don’t care about you.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
But as a Government we have to look after people.
[/quote]
But I do not want the likes of you “looking after” me and I am pretty sure you do not want me to look after you because I don’t care about you.[/quote]
I personally think you are going to have to move 
It’s more than just “looking after me”, it turns into “oh no you didn’t…”
Regulation creates a situation that is pro big business and creates an even steeper climb for small business. Regulation is often lobbied for by the biggest businesses, although publicly they may seem to be at odds with the politicians. The reason is simple. It benefits the big business because the regulation creates more overhead for everyone. So even though the big business is now paying more, so now is the small business. The small business cannot endure increased expenditure and has to close shop. Now big business has less competition, and even more money because of the regulation.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I personally think you are going to have to move :)[/quote]
Where and what does that say about you that you would give me cause to flee?
Or how about you just mind your own business, keep your mitts to yourself and I’ll abide the same?
Could society not be organized around this idea?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I personally think you are going to have to move :)[/quote]
Where and what does that say about you that you would give me cause to flee?
Or how about you just mind your own business, keep your mitts to yourself and I’ll abide the same?
Could society not be organized around this idea?[/quote]
I think your fantasy of a anarchic society is just that, a fantasy, if you want your fantasy to be fulfilled you will have to move to Somalia or possibly Afghanistan, very weak gov.s
Personally I doubt you have anything the Government wants, it is when Business has monopolized segments of America that they become a danger to society if they are not ethical, you and I may disagree what justifies a monopoly, but your only defense is that I should move or live in a cave rather than to expect ethical behavior out of banks and insurance companies
[quote]mattycris wrote:
Regulation creates a situation that is pro big business and creates an even steeper climb for small business. Regulation is often lobbied for by the biggest businesses, although publicly they may seem to be at odds with the politicians. The reason is simple. It benefits the big business because the regulation creates more overhead for everyone. So even though the big business is now paying more, so now is the small business. The small business cannot endure increased expenditure and has to close shop. Now big business has less competition, and even more money because of the regulation.[/quote]
While there is some truth to what you say, it would be just as true if I said that all business is unethical. The truth lies some where in between those statements
[quote]Archone wrote:
I’ve got a question that I’ve posed to a number of people who favor big government. I’ve yet to hear a satisfactory answer. Of course, I don’t think there is one, which is kind of the point. But I thought I’d share it here and see what I get.
For a capitalist economy to convert to a socialist economy, all privately owned wealth must be converted into publicly shared wealth. However, it is inevitable that not every citizen will agree to give up private ownership of their own wealth. How then does one convert from a capitalist economy to a socialist economy without resorting to theft and/or violence?[/quote]
It can’t be done. There will always be people who simply don’t want to share. Since laws apply equally to the common people, the government can’t allow that. They thus have to become violent to extract by force what their law cannot produce.
This necessitates creating positions of power in the government, to enforce the laws. Like a magnet, this attracts those who enjoy wielding power. Thus the state grows and becomes increasingly violent. We see this happening all around us.
In the end, the criminals who looted businesses and the middle-class wind up robbing a crust of bread from some poor starving beggar. The society collapses and we get a Dark Ages.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
But as a Government we have to look after people.
[/quote]
But I do not want the likes of you “looking after” me and I am pretty sure you do not want me to look after you because I don’t care about you.[/quote]
That actually makes you the most suitable person to run a government.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
But as a Government we have to look after people.
[/quote]
But I do not want the likes of you “looking after” me and I am pretty sure you do not want me to look after you because I don’t care about you.[/quote]
That actually makes you the most suitable person to run a government.
[/quote]
Lifty or I to run the GOV.?
If I’d be running a socialism revolution, the people who won’t give up their capitalist companies would have to be arrested, prosecuted and punished. That’s the most logical and straightforward way to do it.
To be clear, I do not support socialism, I am just hypothetically discussing these things. You asked how you could do a revolution and that’s what I think is the only option.
It’s just like asking at a time when slavery was still common, what do we do when we ban slavery and some people just won’t give their slaves up? Well, we then will just have to use force and punishment.
pittbull i agree with everything you are saying and that free market is good for our society, but is there any safe way to take money from the top 1% of Americans and redistribute it freely among the working classes??? wouldnt that help the economy anyways??
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
But as a Government we have to look after people.
[/quote]
But I do not want the likes of you “looking after” me and I am pretty sure you do not want me to look after you because I don’t care about you.[/quote]
That actually makes you the most suitable person to run a government.
[/quote]
As an anarchist I am running my own government and you cannot join my federation.
…or perhaps I am being too hasty.
Maybe that is exactly what we need: 8 Billion “individual governments” and a limitless number of “alliances”.
[quote]Archone wrote:
I’ve got a question that I’ve posed to a number of people who favor big government. I’ve yet to hear a satisfactory answer. Of course, I don’t think there is one, which is kind of the point. But I thought I’d share it here and see what I get.
For a capitalist economy to convert to a socialist economy, all privately owned wealth must be converted into publicly shared wealth. However, it is inevitable that not every citizen will agree to give up private ownership of their own wealth. How then does one convert from a capitalist economy to a socialist economy without resorting to theft and/or violence?[/quote]
If I had one wish, it would be that people would find out what socialists/communists actually believe and advocate before they begin their critique.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
But as a Government we have to look after people.
[/quote]
But I do not want the likes of you “looking after” me and I am pretty sure you do not want me to look after you because I don’t care about you.[/quote]
That actually makes you the most suitable person to run a government.
[/quote]
As an anarchist I am running my own government and you cannot join my federation.[/quote]
Back to life back to reality
This is where I wonder, can you tell fantasy from reality?
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
pittbull i agree with everything you are saying and that free market is good for our society, but is there any safe way to take money from the top 1% of Americans and redistribute it freely among the working classes??? wouldnt that help the economy anyways??[/quote]
In my opinion, we have to make public Corporations (at least wage control) easier for stock holders to control. Our banks fail, America has to bail them out, and they get a bonus that was thirty percent higher than last year (which was a failure also)