I'm Genuinely Torn Now...Judaism or Christianity

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Different covenants. [/quote]

Right, but which of God’s many covenants with Man would you say is most applicable to the United States?

God made covenants with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and David, but these were all broken (by man, of course, not by God) and superseded by the New Covenant enumerated in the book of Jeremiah: “I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know The Lord’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

A Christian believes that this Covenant was fulfilled in the teachings of Jesus, and sealed with his blood, literally at the crucifixion, and symbolically at the Last Supper. Reading Jeremiah, it seems that this Covenant only applied to the House of Israel, but not so, says a Christian: it applies to all who obey the Law (Gentile and Jew alike), and obey a very simple rule: “a new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.”

So with whom has God made his most current Covenant? With all who obey the Law, or just those who take Communion? If the contract is signed by accepting the blood of Christ, then it would seem that the Eucharist is a non-negotiable proviso.

And where does that leave America? Is God’s covenant being kept only by the quarter of the population who are Catholic (or more specifically, the smaller percentage who actually take Communion and obey the Law)?

I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I imagine my Jewish and Protestant friends will have their own opinions. [/quote]

As much as it pains me to say this, there is no covenant with the United States. Infact the US is not even mentioned in the book of Revelation. Maybe the US is where the anti-christ comes from being the West is either Europe of the US, but who knows? Only God knows.

The only covenant is with his people with the circumcision of the heart.

The Jews still have a role to play in this eternal story…what it is I do not really know?

You could say about the US why we are so blessed is that we continue to help the Israel Nation and His People. When we turn our back on Israel that is when we are done.

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Covenant with individuals in the US of A. I don’t think God is particularly worried about the US itself, it’s constitution, it’s DoI, it’s flag, or anything of that nature. I don’t think the US is particularly protected or punished. Anymore than he cares about your high school sports team vs. the other team.

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[quote]Sloth wrote:
Covenant with individuals in the US of A. I don’t think God is particularly worried about the US itself, it’s constitution, it’s DoI, it’s flag, or anything of that nature. I don’t think the US is particularly protected or punished. Anymore than he cares about your high school sports team vs. the other team.[/quote]

All right, but define the covenant, and tell me who you think is keeping it these days.

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Covenant with individuals in the US of A. I don’t think God is particularly worried about the US itself, it’s constitution, it’s DoI, it’s flag, or anything of that nature. I don’t think the US is particularly protected or punished. Anymore than he cares about your high school sports team vs. the other team.[/quote]

All right, but define the covenant, and tell me who you think is keeping it these days. [/quote]

Maybe at some point. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a interesting (and civil) question, but I’m presently not up to the enormity of the task. This really could be a long and nuanced conversation. I’ll jump in later if I’ve the time and fortitude to commit.

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Whore of Babylon?

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

You could say about the US why we are so blessed is that we continue to help the Israel Nation and His People. When we turn our back on Israel that is when we are done.
[/quote]

One could make a similar observation about the Romans: their Empire was blessed because they set up a puppet regime in Israel and provided it with military support.

John of Patmos would disagree, of course. Revelation 17 seems to refer to Rome (seven hills, purple and scarlet, covered in gold, the prostitute of the world). But who knows? Maybe the Whore of Babylon is us. The fact that we built the biggest embassy in the world in Baghdad (capital city of Babylon) is not an encouraging sign.

On the other hand, it might just be referring to Lady Gaga.

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Whore of Babylon?

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

You could say about the US why we are so blessed is that we continue to help the Israel Nation and His People. When we turn our back on Israel that is when we are done.
[/quote]

One could make a similar observation about the Romans: their Empire was blessed because they set up a puppet regime in Israel and provided it with military support.

John of Patmos would disagree, of course. Revelation 17 seems to refer to Rome (seven hills, purple and scarlet, covered in gold, the prostitute of the world). But who knows? Maybe the Whore of Babylon is us. The fact that we built the biggest embassy in the world in Baghdad (capital city of Babylon) is not an encouraging sign.

On the other hand, it might just be referring to Lady Gaga. [/quote]

I can only speculate. But Lady Gaga could be her.

All Apocalyptic writings have current and future meaning. John was writing about the current Empire and the Future Empire. Who is the Future Empire? We could sit her and speculate a long time on who that is? Some say the Roman Catholic Church, some say the US, some say the EU, some say the UN, and the list could go on and on. Only God knows, and it will happen. All we can see are the signs of the time. The signs are getting pretty common now compared to the past. All past generations thought there generation would be the last. I have no clue, and I will continue to live my life for The Lord, and when he comes I will be ready for the thief in the night.

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“Ah… dispatch? I’ve got a Middle Eastern male, mid-thirties, wearing a hoodie and carrying what appears to be a martial arts weapon, he just appeared like a thief in the night…”

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I will be ready for the thief in the night.
[/quote]

A good policy. Just don’t overreact. Look what happened to George Zimmerman.

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:
“Ah… dispatch? I’ve got a Middle Eastern male, mid-thirties, wearing a hoodie and carrying what appears to be a martial arts weapon, he just appeared like a thief in the night…”

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

I will be ready for the thief in the night.
[/quote]

A good policy. Just don’t overreact. Look what happened to George Zimmerman. [/quote]

That’s pretty funny.

Let’s not have this thread turn into the Trayvon Martin part 1000.

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Eventually every thread on T-Nation will be about Trayvon Martin. Even the training and nutrition articles. They’ll have to rename the site “Trayvosterone Nation”.

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Eventually every thread on T-Nation will be about Trayvon Martin. Even the training and nutrition articles. They’ll have to rename the site “Trayvosterone Nation”.[/quote]

Preach it Brother…

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[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Confound it, Doc, how do you expect me to make sweepingly general statements if you’re just gonna come in here and fill in the details that I merrily omit?

No, I appreciate your gentle (I said gentle, not gentile) and erudite chastisement, as always. Toda raba. :)[/quote]

By chance, this week’s reading Is Eikev, Deut 7:12-11:25, and supports my contentions:

  1. Will you say to yourself, “These nations are more numerous than I; how will I be able to drive them out”?
  2. You shall not fear them. You shall surely remember what the Lord, your God, did to Pharaoh and to all of Egypt:
  3. The great trials that your eyes saw, the signs, the wonders, the mighty hand, and the outstretched arm with which the Lord, your God, brought you out. So will the Lord, Your God, do to all the peoples you fear.
  4. And also the tzir’ah, the Lord, your God, will incite against them, until the survivors and those who hide from you perish.
  5. You shall not be terrified of them, for the Lord, your God, Who is in your midst, is a great and awesome God.
  6. And the Lord, your God, will drive out those nations from before you, little by little. You will not be able to destroy them quickly, lest the beasts of the field outnumber you.

Points:

  1. The “ethnic cleansing,” if you will, of Canaan does not happen suddenly, at the will of men. It happens, “little by little” as I previously contended.
  2. It is accomplished by God, and not by Moses or Joshua. (Incidentally, Rashi makes an interesting comment regarding the “beasts of the field” and a connection to the Book of Job.)

(And the interested reader will look back to Deut 7:1, and wonder why there are now 7 nations to be displaced, and not the 6 named in Exodus.)

But then, nothing occurs by chance.

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Was out of the country for a few days. Will read thread tomorrow.

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I will now begin prep for formally becoming Jewish, the whole nine yards.

Oy Veh!!

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[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I will now begin prep for formally becoming Jewish, the whole nine yards.

Oy Veh!![/quote]

Mazel Tov.