Illegal Immigration and Crime

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
MaximusB wrote:Training them and giving them jobs doesn’t mean they will pay taxes. They never have, why would they start now? They get the perks without the drawbacks.

What are you talking about?! We already covered this. They don’t “choose” to pay taxes, they’re taken out of their paycheck, they pay them whenever they buy anything. They pay ~$7 billion a year to social security. If you don’t like brown people, say so, but don’t make stuff up.

You mean the paychecks obtained with false ID’s, you forget about the cost of fighting identity theft that this causes. The lives ruined by people who exploit other people’s SSN’s and you encourage it.

You moron. They pay in, but they aren’t real social security numbers. They don’t get the benefits. They’re not even eligible. How hard is this? No identity theft involved. Stop making things up.

[/quote]

I can see you’re not very bright, but I’ll try to explain. A few people use your social security number and do pay taxes. but your total income is not matching what the SSI numbers add up to and now the IRS wants to talk to you.

Or said illegals default on a loan, or don’t pay a credit card bill. Or get sued in small claims court or whatever. Now your SSI number is tagged with their BS.

Moron as you are fond of saying.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
<<< Help train them and help them find jobs. It’s basic economics. >>>

Let them come here legally. [/quote]

If they could, they would.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
<<< Help train them and help them find jobs. It’s basic economics. >>>

Let them come here legally.

If they could, they would.[/quote]

How bout if we send them to your house?

Nice job, ignoring the line “the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their heavy use of most social services,” and the fact that they use less than half the services of native households.

Of course tax burdens would increase in the short term. If you all of a sudden allowed a bunch of low-income natives, who were previously denied services, access to all sorts of benefits, they’d increase to. Should we deny these benefits to low-incomes citizens? Say yes if you want, but that’s still not an argument against immigration.

And you CONTINUE the mistake (misrepresentation?) that there are a fixed number of jobs available, ignoring the earlier report showing no effect on native workers in areas of high immigrations.

But this will have no effect. Kicking immigrants out is just too easy and attractive solution. But how well has it worked with drugs? They’re illegal too.

[quote]John S. wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Be nice to him John, his profile says he is a student.

I’m a student too. I just you know have to work to live while going to school. I get kind of pissed when I see that my hard earned money is being stolen from me to pay for these people.

edited*[/quote]

“These people” represent the waste of a tiny fraction of your money. The defense budget alone this year will be $514 billion. Let’s take care of the big problems first.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Be nice to him John, his profile says he is a student. [/quote]

Maybe someday when you grow up, you can be an Internet Warrior like your big brother!

Yea I noticed that too Chushin, what can you do. This kid has been tooled in every way, I gotta give him credit for fighting for his warped opinion though.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Yea I noticed that too Chushin, what can you do. This kid has been tooled in every way, I gotta give him credit for fighting for his warped opinion though. [/quote]

I will also give him credit for owning up front his anti American stances. I mean that. He actually recognizes what he’s advocating is opposed to what this country was meant to be and wears it on his sleeve. I have more respect for that than these nanny state big government goofs that think that’s American.

[quote]John S. wrote:

I actually live in a town called Grinnell that is 10-15 minutes away from newton 35-45 minutes away from Pella and Des Moines. Here the problem is getter worse. I don’t know how long it has been since you have been to newton but they pretty much abandoned that town once maytag shut down.

And yes there is some amazing mexican food here. We have one in my town it is probably the best I have ever had and I have been to mexico.[/quote]

I know Grinnell very well. I have spent more nights at the Country Inn and Suites than I care to remember. I call on Iowa Telecom, so I now go to Newton. The train depot in Grinnell used to have really good food. I recall having good mexican downtown but don’t remember the name of the place. Pretty good coffee shop right downtown too.

Newton seems to be doing ok to me. I remember seeing all the for sale signs in town when Maytag was laying off a bunch of people. I can tell you that the old Maytag building is full with IowaTel employees and the DMACC campus. It also seems like things are building out towards the airport and race track. It does suck that they moved the Wrestling hall of fame to Waterloo. I frequent the mexican joint right off the highway behind the gas station. Senior Tequilla’s I think. Great Salsa Verde and Chile Colorado.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
2005 was the last time I was in Iowa, mainly in Des Moines. One thing about the midwest I like, the people are cool. Not many places I have been to, where I felt the people were pretty genuine. I bet there is some good Mexican food in Iowa, never tried any. I remember being there in 1997 and going to a place called the Iowa Machine Shed. It’s kinda like a Paul Bunyan place, great food. [/quote]

That’s west Des Moines. The Machine Shed may be a chain of some sorts. We have one in Woodbury, MN. Great meatloaf.

Des Moines is nicer than most might think. It’s a pretty big banking town. The Steak and Chop House at 801 grand is one of the best steak houses I have been to. There are lots of other really good restuantes downtown as well. Blues on Grand is a really cool dive of a blues bar if you are into that sort of thing.

There are phenomenal mexican resturantes in the smaller towns in MN, KS, and IA. Better than I have had in some the tourist traps I have frequented in Mexico.

I have traveled all over the country, and outside of it, and I absolutely love the midwest. The only other place I would even remotely consider living would be TX. Different kinds of geniune but both still very genuine. My kind of people.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Yea I noticed that too Chushin, what can you do. This kid has been tooled in every way, I gotta give him credit for fighting for his warped opinion though.

I will also give him credit for owning up front his anti American stances. I mean that. He actually recognizes what he’s advocating is opposed to what this country was meant to be and wears it on his sleeve. I have more respect for that than these nanny state big government goofs that think that’s American.[/quote]

Shit, that guy should get a medal for his avatar alone.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Yea I noticed that too Chushin, what can you do. This kid has been tooled in every way, I gotta give him credit for fighting for his warped opinion though.

I will also give him credit for owning up front his anti American stances. I mean that. He actually recognizes what he’s advocating is opposed to what this country was meant to be and wears it on his sleeve. I have more respect for that than these nanny state big government goofs that think that’s American.

Shit, that guy should get a medal for his avatar alone. [/quote]

I personally think a smack to the puss would be better, but that’s just me. And no, I won’t give him any credit for being a tiny, anti American gimmee pain the rear. He’s still a moron.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Yeah, because illegal immigration is a problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html[/quote]

Leave it to the New York Times…

Maybe not a problem to a self-proclaimed socialist like yourself who wants to use immigrants as a tool against capitalism, but for the rest of us…
Illegal alien workers may increase profits for employers, but they are costly to the American taxpayer.

Most illegal aliens have low educational attainment, few skills, and they work for low wages, often in the underground economy where they pay no taxes on their earnings. Since about three million illegal aliens gained legal status in the amnesty of 1986, the flow of illegal immigration has increased, and today that population is estimated at 9-11 million illegal alien residents in the country.

The former Immigration and Naturalization Service estimated that the illegal alien population was increasing by about half a million aliens per year in 2000.
The Huddle Study

Because the number of illegal aliens can only be estimated, similarly the fiscal cost (government budget outlays) for those aliens can only be estimated. Dr. Donald Huddle, a Rice University economics professor, published a systematic analysis of those costs as of 1996 (see table below). The study also estimated the tax payments of those same aliens.

At that time, the illegal alien population was estimated to be about five million persons. The estimated fiscal cost of those illegal aliens to the federal, state and local governments was about $33 billion. This impact was partially offset by an estimated $12.6 billion in taxes paid to the federal, state and local governments, resulting in a net cost to the American taxpayer of about $20 billion every year.

This estimate did not include indirect costs that result from unemployment payments to Americans who lost their jobs to illegal aliens willing to work for lower wages. Nor did it include lost tax collections from those American workers who became unemployed. The study estimated those indirect costs from illegal immigration at an additional $4.3 billion annually.

During the years since that estimate, the illegal alien population is estimated to have roughly doubled, so the estimated fiscal costs also will have at least doubled. Furthermore, the passage of time is accompanied by inflation in the costs of services, e.g., school budgets continue to climb.

Therefore, what was estimated to be a cost to the American taxpayer of $33 billion in 1996 today would be at least $70 billion. Similarly, tax collections would have increased â?? sales taxes at least â?? so that the net expense to the taxpayer from illegal immigration would currently be at least $45 billion. The indirect fiscal costs would have also increased, especially during a period of already high unemployment, to perhaps and additional $10 billion annually.

1996 Costs Table from the Huddle Study 1

Programs

(billions)
Public Education K-12

$5.85
Public Higher Education

$0.71
ESL and Bilingual Education

$1.22
Food Stamps

$0.85
AFDC

$0.50
Housing

$0.61
Social Security

$3.61
Earned Income Tax Credit

$0.68
Medicaid

$3.12
Medicare A and B

$0.58
Criminal Justice and Corrections

$0.76
Local Government

$5.00
Other Programs

$9.25

Total Costs

$32.74

Less Taxes Paid

$12.59

Net Costs of Direct Services

$20.16

Displacement Costs

$4.28

All Net Costs

$24.44

Other More Recent Estimates

Other estimates have been done on components of the cost of illegal immigration. For example, FAIR estimated in 2003 that the cost of K-12 education for illegal alien children was at least $7.4 billion annually (see Breaking the Piggybank). This would be less than double the about $5.9 billion estimate above, but would be of the same order of magnitude. FAIRâ??s 2004 report on the medical expenses incurred because of illegal immigration (see The Sinking Lifeboat) shows uncompensated costs in excess of one billion dollars.

The cost of incarceration of illegal aliens in state prisons has also risen rapidly. In fiscal year â??02, the Department of Justiceâ??s State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) distributed $550 million to the states to help defray their expenses, but this was estimated to cover only about one fifth of their outlays.

Between FY’99 and FY’02, alien detention increased by 45 percent (from about 69,300 inmate years to over 100,300 inmate years), and that trend is continuing. These expenses do not include the costs of illegal aliens incarcerated in federal prisons, public safety expenditures, detention pending trial, expenses of trial proceedings, interpretation, public defenders, or the incarceration expenses of immigrants for minor offenses that do not meet the standards of the SCAPP reimbursement program.

Therefore, it is clear that outlays for Criminal Justice and Corrections costs is today much greater than double the 1996 estimate.

While the cost of outlays for illegal aliens may be shifted by legislation among the levels of government and the private sector, the fact remains that illegal immigration creates an enormous fiscal burden on America and its citizens â?? a burden that Congress has levied upon us through short-sighted and haphazard immigration policy and succeeding administrations have aggravated by spotty enforcement of the law.
A Call for Action

Americans should demand that Congress and the administration work together to establish control over our borders and the interior of the country so that we have the assurance that aliens, whether immigrants or visitors, are legally present in the country. That objective is of vital importance for the sake of national security as well as for the impact on our tax bills.

Did you hear about the border patrol agent killed a few days ago? I think you are going to see a much more aggressive stance on border protection now, Feds don’t like it when one of their own is killed.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
John S. wrote:

I actually live in a town called Grinnell that is 10-15 minutes away from newton 35-45 minutes away from Pella and Des Moines. Here the problem is getter worse. I don’t know how long it has been since you have been to newton but they pretty much abandoned that town once maytag shut down.

And yes there is some amazing mexican food here. We have one in my town it is probably the best I have ever had and I have been to mexico.

I know Grinnell very well. I have spent more nights at the Country Inn and Suites than I care to remember. I call on Iowa Telecom, so I now go to Newton. The train depot in Grinnell used to have really good food. I recall having good mexican downtown but don’t remember the name of the place. Pretty good coffee shop right downtown too.

Newton seems to be doing ok to me. I remember seeing all the for sale signs in town when Maytag was laying off a bunch of people. I can tell you that the old Maytag building is full with IowaTel employees and the DMACC campus. It also seems like things are building out towards the airport and race track. It does suck that they moved the Wrestling hall of fame to Waterloo. I frequent the mexican joint right off the highway behind the gas station. Senior Tequilla’s I think. Great Salsa Verde and Chile Colorado.[/quote]

You are right, The race track did save the town. Its good to see there is someone else who knows a bit about my town.