[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
Gregus wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but i always considered a 22 to be a useless pistol. Mostly completely inadequate for hunting and certainly not good for self or home defense. Isn’t it more of just a target plinking gun?
A suppressed .22 makes a good hunting tool for small game while staying incognito. [/quote]
You have to use a sub sonic round, like a 22 short. A little better than a bb gun, I take my 22 pistol when I mountain bike, in case I have to cap Coyotes
If I could own one gun and a rifle . . .
I wouldn’t.
Well…I would have to go Springfield all the way. M1A Socom II…and XD45(no bigger than 9mm…but carries 13 .45 rounds).
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Don’t know much about guns but I dig’em.
How come you guys are opting for revolvers over double-action pistols?
I always thought the 1911 .45 was cool. Any weapon that’s in the armed services for as long as that one was had to be a good firearm.
As for rifles, I can see the bolt-actions, but if, as someone said, if we’re talking end of the world type shit.
But for everyday use, especially being that I’m not a hunter, I’d probably go for a solid 12 gauge shotgun.
[/quote]
Foolish romanticism and bad apocalyptic fiction. Revolvers and bolt/lever rifles are more robust because that’s what the cowboys used in the rough and tumble West. Never mind that they were the height of technology at the time.
Interesting that the special forces don’t use revolvers despite their ‘superior durability’. I’m sure it’s because if the newer guns break in the line of duty, they’re still under warranty and can be shipped back to Camp Lejeune for repair/replacement.
I mean come on, a lone sniper with a .50 Cal. cannon establishing a ‘defensive perimeter’, that’s the antithesis of an airtight drum.
[quote]JD430 wrote:
Glock 17. Most common pistol in the US(for replacement parts) and reliable as can be anyway.
The AR15’s common usage makes it a front runner for replacement parts and the ammo is certainly plentiful.
However, the M1A’s ruggedness and the vast superiority of the .308 cartridge over the .223 put it high on the list.
But if I really had to choose only one rifle it would be the AK47, despite my affinity and years of reliance on the AR platform. You can bury it, shoot the hell out of it without cleaning, smash somebody over the head with it and it will keep running fine. The magazines are also indestructible and plentiful and it is stupidly simple to work on. Hands down, the weapon for really bad times.[/quote]
You can get the same reliabilty,and use the same round for less $$$ with a Robinson XCR. Plus you can switch calibers. You cant beat that.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I’m surprised no one else is picking a 22. Ammo is plentiful and the ruger semiautos are very reliable. also very accurate. I can hit a 2’x 2’ target with mine at 100 yards. It would be very easy to take small game with it at distances in the 30 yard range.
Maybe he didn’t notice that Varqanir wrote, on the previous page:
One thing that nobody has mentioned yet is the fact that you can get a .22 conversion kit for the .45, which allows you to practice a whole hell of a lot for very little money. Plus, if you ever have to shoot a squirrel or a rabbit for meat, a .22 is going to be more appropriate to the task.
:P[/quote]
Hhahaha! Sorry.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Gregus wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but i always considered a 22 to be a useless pistol. Mostly completely inadequate for hunting and certainly not good for self or home defense. Isn’t it more of just a target plinking gun?
I don’t know much about guns, but I’m thinking anyone who gets a clip unloaded on them is going to be dead, regardless of the caliber. Though, I could be wrong.[/quote]
10 22s will definitely ruin you day, but might not hit you hard enough to stop you quickly.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
tom63 wrote:
I’m surprised no one else is picking a 22. Ammo is plentiful and the ruger semiautos are very reliable. also very accurate. I can hit a 2’x 2’ target with mine at 100 yards. It would be very easy to take small game with it at distances in the 30 yard range.
Anything farther than that I use my Ruger, or Remington 308s. but it all depends on the why. End of the world or just can have two. one thing to consider is the cost and availibility of ammo. you don’t get good without practice.
If you’re thinking ahead ARS have 22 conversion kits as do 1911s, glocks, sigs, and Browning high Powers. I’m sure there are others. Most run in the 200$ to 300$ range.
A few weeks ago on the Outdoor Channel they had a DPMS 3 gun competitor shooter extolling the virtues of the 22 for serious practice. He does most of his rifle and pistol work with the 22 conversions to save on ammo cost and the physical beating of shooting a few thousand pistol rounds a week. He said he had tendonitis, but the 22 gave him needed rest and recovery.
so if you look at it this way, I’ll take my Kimber Grand Raptor and the 22 conversion kit and my AR15 in 223 with a conversion kit. As long as it’s allowed, I’ll slap on the 6.8 upper and now I have a high power rifle at about 243 power or so.
I love my 22 , but your choice is one handgun and one rifle
[/quote]
But a 45 is one handgun, and an AR is one rifle. The conversion kit is not the gun. the gun is the receiver by technical terms, the conversions are accessories and can be bought over the net with no FFL. I have a Glock 23, I can get parts convert it to a SIG 357 OR 9MM legally. the gun is the receiver of the 23. Basically, if I scavenge the top of either, I have a 9mm or 357 sig.
There are also conversion kits for others like I listed.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Don’t know much about guns but I dig’em.
How come you guys are opting for revolvers over double-action pistols?
I always thought the 1911 .45 was cool. Any weapon that’s in the armed services for as long as that one was had to be a good firearm.
As for rifles, I can see the bolt-actions, but if, as someone said, if we’re talking end of the world type shit.
But for everyday use, especially being that I’m not a hunter, I’d probably go for a solid 12 gauge shotgun.
I think the rationale is parts availability and reliabilty. The few parts to wear out, the better. Military use includes maintenance, servicing parts, and eventual replacement. When this is not an option a revolver, bolt action rifle, or pump/break action shotgun are probably the most reliable long term.
Ahh ok.
The only thing with revolvers is that I’ve read that under stress, they can be difficult to load. I.e. when faced with a life and death situation, your hands tend to shake, making reloading very difficult.
It’s something that I would think about.[/quote]
moon clips,and training
My grandfather has an old s&w model 19 he bought it in 1960.
I know because he brags about it and uses it as an example of craftsmanship.
he still fires it every day and has since new in 1960.
he has had minor work done to it but nothing major at all in the almost 50 years of use.
I would choose that or similar 38 special or .357 mag.
and rifle I would choose a marlin model 1894c
uses the same rounds,they are reliable and simple designs and they stop almost anything you can stick in front of it
For what reason?
I’d say a 12 ga semi auto and .270 for hunting.
For a self defense I’d still say a 12 gauge but I’d swap the rifle for a mac-10 or some shit.
Smith & Wesson Model 625M "Jerry Miculek Special in .45 ACP
[quote]FightinIrish wrote:
The only thing with revolvers is that I’ve read that under stress, they can be difficult to load. I.e. when faced with a life and death situation, your hands tend to shake, making reloading very difficult.
MaddyD wrote:
moon clips, and training
[/quote]
I’ll just add that if your hands are shaking so badly that you can’t reload, you probably wouldn’t hit much anyway. But yes. Moon clips and training.
Here’s Jerry Miculek, showing how slow and difficult a .45 caliber Smith & Wesson double-action revolver is to shoot and reload.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
JD430 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
JD430 wrote:
Glock 17. Most common pistol in the US(for replacement parts) and reliable as can be anyway.
The AR15’s common usage makes it a front runner for replacement parts and the ammo is certainly plentiful.
However, the M1A’s ruggedness and the vast superiority of the .308 cartridge over the .223 put it high on the list.
But if I really had to choose only one rifle it would be the AK47, despite my affinity and years of reliance on the AR platform. You can bury it, shoot the hell out of it without cleaning, smash somebody over the head with it and it will keep running fine. The magazines are also indestructible and plentiful and it is stupidly simple to work on. Hands down, the weapon for really bad times.
Problem would be ammo availability.
Two good additions to make on an AK. Makes up for some of the inaccuracy.
http://www.tech-sights.com/ -
I have one for my SKS. Way better than stock sites. Will be getting one for AK when available.
http://www.rifletech.com/yugobrake39-a.htm
I have one for SKS but haven’t used it yet. Get’s good reviews though.
And one for additional reliability
http://www.nokick.com/AK_Valmet_Gailil_Recoil_Buffer_p/ak1b.htm
The accuracy knock on the AK is way over-stated. Hitting a bad guy at 200 yards or so is not any type of problem whatsoever if your skills are decent. I think our understanding of shooting has been influenced too much by bench rests and “grouping” competitions. I’m not pissing on marksmanship, it is the building block of all firearms skills. However, the reality is the vast majority of fighting you would ever do would be well inside the range of an AK. You can also get very rugged, relatively inexpensive eastern bloc optics which magnify its potential for accurate hits. If you went with a Dragunov, you would have all the accuracy you could ever need at a fairly low price. The AK can also be had in very compact configurations for very confined work. All of this is coming from a guy who lives and dies by the M4 too.
There is a great amount of 7.62x39 circulating around this country, but I will concede that a dastardly political move could cut off most of the supply with the stroke of a pen.
Those ring sights look pretty good if you favor those over notch and post but I dont know about those buffers. I dont think you would need anything like that to increase the AK’s reliability.
I really dislike the notch and post sight on the AK. I can shoot my Win Model 94 with a notch site just fine, but the AK’s really bother me. It’s mostly that I can’t get a good cheek weld. I would either need to lower/trim the stock or raise the sight. A good peep site would probalby be the biggest improvement in accuracy for me. I am not real big on optics at this point. I like iron sights just fine.
[/quote]
I’m not trying to be a dick but you do know that the Dragunov use’s a 7.62x54 right?
[quote]jawara wrote:
dhickey wrote:
JD430 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
JD430 wrote:
Glock 17. Most common pistol in the US(for replacement parts) and reliable as can be anyway.
The AR15’s common usage makes it a front runner for replacement parts and the ammo is certainly plentiful.
However, the M1A’s ruggedness and the vast superiority of the .308 cartridge over the .223 put it high on the list.
But if I really had to choose only one rifle it would be the AK47, despite my affinity and years of reliance on the AR platform. You can bury it, shoot the hell out of it without cleaning, smash somebody over the head with it and it will keep running fine. The magazines are also indestructible and plentiful and it is stupidly simple to work on. Hands down, the weapon for really bad times.
Problem would be ammo availability.
Two good additions to make on an AK. Makes up for some of the inaccuracy.
http://www.tech-sights.com/ -
I have one for my SKS. Way better than stock sites. Will be getting one for AK when available.
http://www.rifletech.com/yugobrake39-a.htm
I have one for SKS but haven’t used it yet. Get’s good reviews though.
And one for additional reliability
http://www.nokick.com/AK_Valmet_Gailil_Recoil_Buffer_p/ak1b.htm
The accuracy knock on the AK is way over-stated. Hitting a bad guy at 200 yards or so is not any type of problem whatsoever if your skills are decent. I think our understanding of shooting has been influenced too much by bench rests and “grouping” competitions. I’m not pissing on marksmanship, it is the building block of all firearms skills. However, the reality is the vast majority of fighting you would ever do would be well inside the range of an AK. You can also get very rugged, relatively inexpensive eastern bloc optics which magnify its potential for accurate hits. If you went with a Dragunov, you would have all the accuracy you could ever need at a fairly low price. The AK can also be had in very compact configurations for very confined work. All of this is coming from a guy who lives and dies by the M4 too.
There is a great amount of 7.62x39 circulating around this country, but I will concede that a dastardly political move could cut off most of the supply with the stroke of a pen.
Those ring sights look pretty good if you favor those over notch and post but I dont know about those buffers. I dont think you would need anything like that to increase the AK’s reliability.
I really dislike the notch and post sight on the AK. I can shoot my Win Model 94 with a notch site just fine, but the AK’s really bother me. It’s mostly that I can’t get a good cheek weld. I would either need to lower/trim the stock or raise the sight. A good peep site would probalby be the biggest improvement in accuracy for me. I am not real big on optics at this point. I like iron sights just fine.
I’m not trying to be a dick but you do know that the Dragunov use’s a 7.62x54 right?
[/quote]
Yes. I wasn’t really considering the ammo with that recommendation. Just the platform.
By the way, that XCR looks really nice. The AK has some advantages for a couple of reasons(price and common use are two), but I may have to add one to my arsenal.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
One of the few athletic events where older guys dominate young bucks day in and day out.[/quote]
It’s because we’ve mastered patience, concentration, and self control, and we’ve had more time to practice. Come to think of it, that’s probably why older guys are better lovers, too. 
[quote]dhickey wrote:
I really dislike the notch and post sight on the AK. I can shoot my Win Model 94 with a notch site just fine, but the AK’s really bother me. It’s mostly that I can’t get a good cheek weld. I would either need to lower/trim the stock or raise the sight. A good peep site would probalby be the biggest improvement in accuracy for me. I am not real big on optics at this point. I like iron sights just fine.
[/quote]
You can buy after market peep sights from several companies. I got one for my Saiga-308 from Red Star Arms. I’m a big fan.
mike
I have a .40 Sig Sauer P226. Love it.
I’m in the market for a rifle and and leaning toward a 30.06.
You could also check out a .300 short mag. Can get a 180gr at about 2800 fps at 100 yds or more if you do your own reloading. I have a .300 wsm with synthetic stock, stainless steel barrel a pretty nice leopould scope and a bipod on mine. Took out a buffalo with it when I get it from High school graduation several years ago. Beautiful gun, beautiful performace and versatility. Rounds are about .75 if I reload them myself almost $1.25 apiece if I buy white box.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
If I were an 11 year old girl I think I’d have to go with the Mossberg 500.
Shooting in Butte, Montana
Shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders :
Butte, Montana November 5, 2007
Two illegal aliens, Ralphel Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.
It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.
Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father’s room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.
Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old’s knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.
When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.
It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.
Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, & MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news…an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself…against two murderous, illegal aliens …and she wins, she is still alive.
Now that is Gun Control !
Thought for the day:
Calling an illegal alien an ‘undocumented immigrant’ is like calling a drug dealer an ‘unlicensed pharmacist’ -Amen
[/quote]
It is better that you know that that story is a complete fabrication as using it only serves to weaken and embarass the pro gun/pro self defence argument.
There are plenty of stories that either show how gun control has had detrimental affects or how having a gun has had very positive outcomes. I suggest you start keeping a stockpile of real stories. Two are provided in the above snopes article.
As for the topic at hand, two weekends ago was the first time I had ever fired a gun. Living in Australia, and particularly living in the ACT, gun ownership is a difficult thing. I have been more interested in working for peoples right to own and carry firearms rather than actually availing myself of that right. I however plan to get into sport shooting (how you get a license in the ACT) soon.
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
You can buy after market peep sights from several companies. I got one for my Saiga-308 from Red Star Arms. I’m a big fan.
mike[/quote]
good lead. thanks