Ideology in Dragon Age: Origins

I’m hoping to avoid this devolving into some kind of political “discussion,” but I realize that may not be possible, given the fact that this is the Internet and my question can be construed as having political components. I’ll try.

I’m always intrigued by games that claim to have multiple paths where every decision can have a bearing on the rest of the game, and ultimately, the outcome; games that claim to be filled with ethical dilemmas that aren’t always black and white, etc. Naturally, any undertaking of this kind is going to be somewhat colored by the values of the people responsible for actually determining what those dilemmas are, and what the consequences of players’ decisions are.

It always seems to me that the designers of these games either don’t put enough effort into truly making the choices ideologically neutral, or fail simply because of how difficult it is to completely divorce oneself from his/her own values.

A good example of this in an actual game (which probably is reflective of my own inherent “bias,” for lack of a better word) would be Fable II, where raising the rent your character charged for a property resulted in you becoming gradually more “corrupt” every time your rent was collected, and less “pure.” For a game that purported to be ethically nuanced, you were treated as some kind of slumlord for simply charging more rent. They throw away an opportunity to do something TRULY nuanced, like having the going rate for rent vary depending on the neighborhood (giving you the ability to possibly affect that rate), then having high rents result in tenants who MOVE OUT (which they’re perfectly free to do), or making it easier to attract tenants with lower rent, etc. Instead, it’s literally boiled down to: charge people a lot, you’re bad; charge them little, you’re good. In this case, the game designers’ naive anti-capitalist beliefs totally destroy what could have been an actual interesting game within a game (and a chance to actually deliver on what they CLAIMED to provide).

At any rate, now that I have that diatribe out of the way, to the question: has anyone who’s played Dragon Age: Origins–and is politically savvy enough to recognize it–noticed just that sort of ideological bullshit? After picking up the game on sale, I checked out the web site, and couldn’t help but notice some typical class warfare “morality” crap in the Origins section, which describes the back story of each character class that you have an option of choosing. Naturally, it is the horrible human “nobles” who are deplorable wealthy snobs, guilty of having enslaved the elves, and now callously subjugate those poor pathetic elves who still stick around to serve them and act as cheap labor. This is the kind of class warfare bullshit that I expect from politicians, not video games that purport to offer complex, ethically nuanced decision-making that results in profound consequences.

That being said, there’s a very real possibility that I’m reading too much into it, and the game actually is relatively fair. Really, I just don’t want to be condescendingly preached to, or be subject to transparently naive and juvenile political correctness. I got enough of that crap in high school and college, and now I get enough of it from Hollywood to last ten lifetimes.

I played fable and will play dragons age (when I get it for christmas) because I like to kill monsters with swrods and bows and magic. In order for the story to be interesting I think there has to be some element of good and evil, else why fight something. I think probably the game developers are looking at a targeted audience of say 13-17 and so complex capitalist property ideas might not be the best as far as keeping kids interested in the game. I’m not saying thats exactly why they made it that way, but it could be and it’s probably a little too early in the evolution of gaming to be worrying about nuance like that.

V

I noticed that about Fable II also … the complex (anti)capitalist concepts that were inserted into fable were so vague as to not take away from the main story line and game play.

Sure you could play realty mogul (I did, I acquired every piece of property in the game), but they didn’t want it to take away from the game so they made it as simple as possible; possibly playing down to the lowest common denominator … let’s face it, most people who buy and play fable aren’t in it to become property savvy or are savvy to begin with.

Seeing as how the elves got their asses conquered, why not them?

I never felt as though it was overly fake or anything.

Shit always rolls down hill, and it’s got to fall on somebody.

In that world, it’s them.

Leave to nerds to suck the coolness out of video games.

I didn’t read all the way through but I will later… just saw you mentioned fable. The problem with those games is that regardless of what decision you make the game ends the same way… its a great concept but not many games do it properly, whats the point of making different decisions if it doesn’t actually affect the outcome. Fallout 1-2 is an example of one that did.

The only thing I cared about was that my character banged Leliana. Mission accomplished! I win the game.

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
The only thing I cared about was that my character banged Leliana. Mission accomplished! I win the game.[/quote]

She’s bi, by the way.

You get bonus if your chick character tags her.

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
The only thing I cared about was that my character banged Leliana. Mission accomplished! I win the game.[/quote]

You can have a foursome in the game, I’ll leave it to you whether you want to find it on your own or google…

[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
The only thing I cared about was that my character banged Leliana. Mission accomplished! I win the game.

She’s bi, by the way.

You get bonus if your chick character tags her. [/quote]

You mean if you use Morrigan or create a female main character? Either way, it’s still awesome.

[quote]red04 wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
The only thing I cared about was that my character banged Leliana. Mission accomplished! I win the game.

You can have a foursome in the game, I’ll leave it to you whether you want to find it on your own or google…[/quote]

I knew you could have a threesome, but not a foursome. I’ll have to look that up.

This game is pissing me off. The combat system is terrible. One moment you’re kicking ass and then the next second 2 Ice Mages and 4 warriors jump out of nowhere and kick your ass. Whatever chance you have of fighting back is taken away because crappy combat system.

And I still haven’t fucked Morrigan. That’s the only reason I keep playing.

The biggest ethical dilemma in my life (everything was clear-cut before and after, and I’m not talking just RPG games) I had when I played Baldur’s Gate 2. You have this town called Trademeet, and anyone who played a fighter-mage will know what I’m talking about. The quest with the two feuding families and the neclace both want to have. The game presents you 2 choices: give it to the one of the families (regardles which, the same will happen) or give it to the town magister.

If you give it to the one of the families, eventually a fight will break out where you kill both, and you are free to lot them. One family head has the best early armor (I dunno latter) for fighter-mage (actually, the only one since they can’t wear armor and cast spells). If you give it to the magister, you get 2000gp and that’s it.

Now you see my dilemma. I can kill someone (regardles good or bad) for my gain without consequences (nothing will change in the grand scheme of things, not even good or bad points) or do the right thing and get nothing.

Call me crazy, but talking about ethics of abortion is easier, I’m still troubled by my actions (I killed them all…)

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
This game is pissing me off. The combat system is terrible. One moment you’re kicking ass and then the next second 2 Ice Mages and 4 warriors jump out of nowhere and kick your ass. Whatever chance you have of fighting back is taken away because crappy combat system.

And I still haven’t fucked Morrigan. That’s the only reason I keep playing.[/quote]

It takes a lot more planning than a run-and-gun or something.

Get a tank (warrior with a shield taunt like crazy).
Get a caster (pump them with mana potions and rain hell).
Get a damage dealer (dual wield rogue or 2H warrior).
Get a healer (make sure she isn’t wasting mana on anything but healing in her AI settings).

I almost never died with that setup.

Also, give Morrigan jewelery, bitch loves it.

[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
This game is pissing me off. The combat system is terrible. One moment you’re kicking ass and then the next second 2 Ice Mages and 4 warriors jump out of nowhere and kick your ass. Whatever chance you have of fighting back is taken away because crappy combat system.

And I still haven’t fucked Morrigan. That’s the only reason I keep playing.

It takes a lot more planning than a run-and-gun or something.

Get a tank (warrior with a shield taunt like crazy).
Get a caster (pump them with mana potions and rain hell).
Get a damage dealer (dual wield rogue or 2H warrior).
Get a healer (make sure she isn’t wasting mana on anything but healing in her AI settings).

I almost never died with that setup.

Also, give Morrigan jewelery, bitch loves it. [/quote]

I killed my healer when she tried to block me while going through the Circle of Mages campaign.

Currently, I’m in Haven. I got jumped by 2 Ice Mages and 5 warriors. If I attack the mage, i get hit in the back with swords. I attack the swordsmen, fucking mage freezes us to death.

And now I have to kill Morrigans mom to get some.

[quote]ChrisPowers wrote:
In this case, the game designers’ naive anti-capitalist beliefs totally destroy what could have been an actual interesting game within a game (and a chance to actually deliver on what they CLAIMED to provide).

[. . .]

After picking up the game on sale, I checked out the web site, and couldn’t help but notice some typical class warfare “morality” crap in the Origins section, which describes the back story of each character class that you have an option of choosing. Naturally, it is the horrible human “nobles” who are deplorable wealthy snobs, guilty of having enslaved the elves, and now callously subjugate those poor pathetic elves who still stick around to serve them and act as cheap labor. This is the kind of class warfare bullshit that I expect from politicians, not video games that purport to offer complex, ethically nuanced decision-making that results in profound consequences.[/quote]

So you believe in eternal judgment at the hand of god right?

I love you guys, but where do you get the time to play all these video games? Wol’s in every thread about video games (I’m mainly talking to Wol)

BTW, I’m not picking on you guys, I"m genuinely curious how you find the time

Hey wol, have you ever played a D&D or similar game before? Is this your first swim through one?

V

Well I’m still in college polo, all I have is time. Oh and no part-time job, hah.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Ghost22 wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
This game is pissing me off. The combat system is terrible. One moment you’re kicking ass and then the next second 2 Ice Mages and 4 warriors jump out of nowhere and kick your ass. Whatever chance you have of fighting back is taken away because crappy combat system.

And I still haven’t fucked Morrigan. That’s the only reason I keep playing.

It takes a lot more planning than a run-and-gun or something.

Get a tank (warrior with a shield taunt like crazy).
Get a caster (pump them with mana potions and rain hell).
Get a damage dealer (dual wield rogue or 2H warrior).
Get a healer (make sure she isn’t wasting mana on anything but healing in her AI settings).

I almost never died with that setup.

Also, give Morrigan jewelery, bitch loves it.

I killed my healer when she tried to block me while going through the Circle of Mages campaign.

Currently, I’m in Haven. I got jumped by 2 Ice Mages and 5 warriors. If I attack the mage, i get hit in the back with swords. I attack the swordsmen, fucking mage freezes us to death.

And now I have to kill Morrigans mom to get some.
[/quote]

That’s what you get for having your character be an asshole.

You could always have morrigan do it and just have a bunch of fighters.

Fighting mages sucks though.