The state of Colorado hasn’t acknowledged wolves are there so there are no measures to legally kill them, even if they go after your stock. Pretty ridiculous I think. In May of this year I was camping in the Flat Tops and heard a bunch of wolves howling pretty much all night long. So they are in CO too.
I think its important for the population to be controlled, hence a hunting season. I also think its important for the farmer to be able to protect his property - similar case to “stand your ground” when it comes to protecting your property from humans.
I can’t fault an animal for doing what they instinctually do. I will not challenge that living out West is different from living in the East. I just don’t like the idea of eradication of a species. I think, like most things, it needs to be managed and dealt with.
As dangerous as wolves are, aren’t they just the same as a Tiger or Great White in the ocean? Every time you go to the beach you don’t know what’s in the waters - hence why incidents happen every year. People just seem to forget this.
I think animals are becoming more and more comfortable with people - insofar as not fearing them. And if food/prey is easier in rural West than in the deep woods, they will probably go there. Again, instinct and I think someone that can be dealt with on a case by case. I just can’t see there being a stopping point. When do you decide to stop eradicating “problem” species? Wolves, Bears, Mountain Lions, Sharks, and others all pose threats. There has to be a balance.
I read and respect your follow-up post. No hard feelings then, I just didn’t appreciate the manner of response in the first one. I will admit that I can’t compete most likely with a Western hunter, you guys have a different skillset. My buddy in New Mexico takes shots with a boy at 50 yds no problem, I don’t go past 25 yds in my hunting grounds. Different environment. I wasn’t trying to impress, just justify myself as not a “city slicker”, I don’t like cities, I’m at home in the country and that is probably why I got my back up a bit. I won’t try to impress, but I’m happy to share hunting stories and learn - I want to get into stalk hunting and other tactics you Westerners use.
I AM however currently looking at purchasing some land out west, for some reason (probably the economy) there is some rather fairly priced land available. I’ve been looking specifically at Northern Arizona or Montana (Helena, Butte area), any suggestions? Both have their plusses and minuses. And I hope when I get out that way for hunting, I can still hope to see wolves around. I’d much like to see and maybe hunt them. They’ve been a favorite for a long time - and one of my goals is to hunt every predator in North America - would hate to lose that opportunity :D.
Maybe you can work with this guy. He has a whole TV show devoted to it.
No idea who that is… or is that the dude that tracks the “human predators.” Unless they make an island for the “Most Dangerous Game” I highly doubt it would be legal.
And I wouldn’t consider those worthy adversary. Most are pretty pitiful individuals. Again, if I’m guessing correctly.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
No idea who that is… or is that the dude that tracks the “human predators.” Unless they make an island for the “Most Dangerous Game” I highly doubt it would be legal.
And I wouldn’t consider those worthy adversary. Most are pretty pitiful individuals. Again, if I’m guessing correctly.[/quote]
Yep. That’s Chris Hansen, from To Catch a Predator.
Agreed, the quarry he hunts is neither as cunning nor as noble as a wolf. More like a jackal, maybe, or a feral hog. “Scavenger” is probably a better description than “predator”. Shame there’s no open season on 'em, in any case.
Would be funny to present your license for that one. Cop shows up on the scene for a “murder” case, with the shooter willfully remaining at the crime scene and strangely snapping photos of his kill suspended from a tree. As the cop approaches he warily places his hand on his holster and asks those present what the hell happened. As if already prepared, the “perp” hands the cop an envelope full of child pornography and a print-out from Yahoo Messenger of this “Scavenger’s” attempt to meet with an 11 year old boy for “friend time and companionship.” Apparently this hunter was using “bait” tactics for his quarry. The cop receives the information, shakes his head, and then extends his hand to shake the perp’s, offering him congratulations on his “trophy” kill - this one went about 280 lbs and had been evading hunters for some time. Even though there was no official there, the kill had an estimated D&S value of over 350. A successful day indeed.
D&S is the scoring method for all sexual predators. D of course representing Despicable and S for Sly, the two criteria used to qualify a score for each predator taken. The current world record for Despicable and Sly is 465 for Dean Corll taken back in the mid 70’s. A perfect score of 500 is possible and would be the estimated score had the notorious Michael Jackson - or “Child Thriller” as he was referred to in the dark circles, been successfully taken.
I put way too much effort into that. I do hope push finds my request for input on purchasing land in all of these shenanigans.
Ahh, I missed the “not all of them” part, then. I’d be interested to hear how folks in Africa deal with the many predators there. And aren’t also bear a problem, or they are so few and far between its difficult to know? Keep in mind, I’m just discussing at this point, no longer trying to hold a stance. I’m all about controlling a population and removing “problem children,” I’m just waiting for it to be legal with people :-P.
As far as land I’m seeing a lot of “ranches” coming up for sale at really good prices. My friend who lives in New Mexico said the deal in Arizona is the folks in Phoenix that originally owned the property have fallen on some harder times and probably lost the land. Now banks are trying to sell it at its current value. Potential for the land gaining value when/if the economy recovers.
I just want a place to hunt. I can get whitetail deer, turkey, and many kinds of small game here (black bear are still too rare around here). I want the ability to find other game. I don’t particularly like the idea of paying a guide thousands to go on a hunt - I will for some cases - but I like knowing the lay of my own land, understanding the animal’s movement patterns etc.
Unfortunately, my price range is probably only about 40 or so acres. Which isn’t alot. It gets me “into” the state, and a place to “set up shop.” I’d like to be able to hunt that very property if possible. The one thing holding me back is that I still count as a non-resident and get 0 benefits it seems owning the land (as a hunter, save being able to hunt there IF I draw a tag). Here in PA I guess I’m spoiled, I get a license every year and I make the choice whether I want to shoot something or not. Out West it seems you take what you can get.
I’m fine with colder temperatures, can always wear more I say. And a wood stove should do fine in whatever housing I set up. I think around Butte it was 45" of snow a year. South Dakota was pretty harsh too as I recall, and had awesome hunting. Montana seems to have literally everything available - Arizona slightly less (no bear, goats, or sheep).
Quasi, look into the Allison/Arboles and Navajo Lake area of northern New Mexico. You can find land dirt cheap and the hunting and fishing is great. The waters south of Navajo dam are gold medal trout waters and the lake also has landlocked salmon! Great hunting right in that area and you’re only ~1 1/2 hours from high country where one can go after sheep and bear and other more exotic hunts.
Also, Quasi I am from central VA and moved out west a few years ago, and to me, the cold is much more bearable here due to the low humidity. You get warm just standing in the sun in a blizzard out here, a lot different from the bone numbing humidity the east has. Not sure if PA is as bad as VA but the difference is enormous.
When i was in Montana last year visiting family, i asked about the wild life and if i should keep an eye out while on their ranch. Essentially their take on wolves was that it takes some effort to see one. ie. going up into Glacier or way out of town. Saw some black bear, and coyotes but i just cant see a pack of wolves coming into the valley and causing trouble.
It would be funny it wolves took over Polebridge tho.
X10000000000000 on the fed’s staying out the state’s business. fuck big gov’t
I just got back from visiting my Aunt and Uncle in Island Park, Idaho, about 30 miles west of Yellowstone right on the border with Montana. She told me the BLM guys were practically begging people to shoot wolves on sight.
She told a story about how some wolves came over the border from Oregon and got shot, then the Oregon yuppie types got all pissed off. A Governor or somebody said something like “You can take all our wolves to make up for it”. They Oregonites were not amused.
We went riding in the mountains with a rancher friend of hers who lost a border collie. She’s still torn up about it.
I don’t think she personally experienced any predation of her cattle, but the wolves can literally decimate a herd of bison if they get stuck in deep snow with icy crust.
If I ever moved out there, I’d rather deal with wolves though than getting snowed in.
heh
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Ahh, I missed the “not all of them” part, then. I’d be interested to hear how folks in Africa deal with the many predators there. [/quote]
From what I understand they have a great many problems, not just with predators but with elephants who destroy farmers crops and kill people, for example. I also understand that like people in Push’s state, their hands are pretty much tied because god forbid you kill a precious elephant in defense of your life or livelyhood and offend the sensibilties of the international community (people from far away who don’t live there and don’t have to deal with the consequences of dealing with these animals).
For the record I really like elephants and wolves, but don’t live near any and have never seen either, so I don’t seen their management as my business. Of course that doesn’t stop me from having an opinion, which is that they should be protected as long as they are on state or federal land, but as soon as they cross the line it should be open game.