what studies have you seen that say black folks are not arrested, shot, beaten by police etc at a higher rate compared to other races?
Id love to see ones adjusted for behavior.
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Sure. Not to sidetrack this thread with that issue, since there’s an active thread talking about it. If you look back in the NFL thread, at @anon50325502’s responses, he put up quite a few statistics and links there that point out problems. Also, @Aragorn put up a really, really nice post trying to get at the problems with specific cases of police brutality or police shootings that go viral, vs. what’s really happening in terms of data if we get more empirical about the topic.
This is not specific to your question, but it does get to looking at the data and how we decide if things are getting better. I’m quoting it here due to a WSJ paywall. This is from Jason Riley, and AA writer. He wrote a nice piece last week called, I Used to Sit For the National Anthem Too, about being raised Jehovah’s Witness. Anyway, some of the limitations.
"There is no national database of police shootings—some departments report more-detailed data than others—but the statistics that are available suggest that police today use deadly force significantly less often than in the past. In New York City, home to the nation’s largest police force, officer-involved shootings have fallen by more than 90% since the early 1970s, and national trends have been similarly dramatic.
A Justice Department report published in 2001 noted that between 1976 and 1998, the teen and adult population grew by 47 million people, and the number of police officers increased by more than 200,000, yet the number of people killed by police “did not generally rise” over this period. Moreover, a “growing percentage of felons killed by police are white, and a declining percentage are black.” A separate Justice study released in 2011 also reported a decline in killings by police, between 1980 and 2008. And according to figures from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the rate at which police kill blacks has fallen by 70% since the late 1960s.
An increase in press coverage of police shootings isn’t the same thing as an increase in police shootings."
Getting to your question specifically.
Injury and Prevention Study
^ Just a note about this “every 28 days” stat, here’s Naima Lowe, a professor at Evergreen, with her own variation, claiming “we are among the Black people who are killed every 28 minutes.” Imagine what that number would look like.
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How about adding perceptions of behavior?
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Certainly add it to the list
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Hi @zecarlo and @sunnbeaches105. I don’t know the answer to either of those questions about behavior or perception of behavior (which might be racism) It’s troubling.
From the Time article above, it seems that young men between 15-29, particularly Native Americans and Blacks are being stopped by police more, and there was a Harvard study in 2016 that also showed that police tend to get more physical with them (push, handcuff, draw a baton or weapon, etc…).
"A study by a Harvard professor released this month found no evidence of racial bias in police shootings even though officers were more likely to interact physically with non-whites than whites.
The paper for the National Bureau of Economic Research, which examined thousands of incidents at 10 large police departments in California, Florida and Texas, concluded that police were no more likely to shoot non-whites than whites after factoring in extenuating circumstances.
“On the most extreme use of force — officer-involved shootings — we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account,” said Harvard economics professor Roland G. Fryer Jr. in the abstract of the July 2016 paper.
Mr. Fryer, who is black, told The New York Times that the finding of no racial discrimination in police shootings was “the most surprising result of my career.”
At the same time, the study found blacks and Hispanics were more than 50 percent more likely to experience physical interactions with police, including touching, pushing, handcuffing, drawing a weapon, and using a baton or pepper spray.
The 63-page study, “An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force,” appears to support research conducted at Washington State University showing that officers in simulation tests were actually less likely to shoot at blacks than whites." -
This nationwide study seems to directly conflict with the study of 10 police departments you posted.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html\
As for the simulation tests done by Wazzu - that has to be the worst possible way to measure if police are racist haha.
Thanks. Yeah, there seems to be some very conflicting interpretations of data. Notice how different this picture is. BTW, I hate the title of the article, but you can see how people are looking at some of these studies, but have very different ideas about what’s going on. Confusing, right? It’s so highly politicized now, but I’d imagine we’ll know more over the next couple of years as people continue to study it.
The FACTS that we have nationally are that Blacks are killed by cops at a higher rate than white folks and they get stopped by the police more than white folks. The why, is where the conflicting interpretations come in.
Are your facts different than the Harvard study?
from PP’s post above:
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Again, that study was on 10 PDs. Look at the national figures… There are a few more than 10 PDs in this country.
The national numbers are in the Chicago Tribune article I linked, or very readily available with a 10 second Google search comparing the number of black vs white police incidents to the percentage of total population.
Do you understand this is a flawed way to look at the data? It was mentioned by me and Aragon specifically.
Fact: black people tend to live in higher crime areas.
Fact: higher crime areas need more police presence to enforce laws.
Therefore black guys are more likely to encounter police. So if .05% of police encounters with civilians go tits up (which they’re bound to do with fallible humans on both sides of the encounter) more black guys will get shot (on a percentage basis). There’s just more opportunities for mistakes.
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How is the data flawed? I am not analyzing the data, simply relaying quantitative data, right?
There are a lot of posts in a lot of threads… Could you give me cliff notes please?
Came here to say this thread needed the Saad Truth.
Dude is pretty mint.
Hope all is well @anon71262119
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@countingbeans!!! Hey! So nice to see you. You have been missed!! I hope all is well with you and your little family. @ Gad Saad - I like! He’s doing some good things, and he’s a lot of fun to listen to. Also, I’m just a huge fan of Jonathan Haidt.
Thanks! I’m pretty much one E. coli encounter away from my dream bod.
Ha! Really busy, but in a good way. All is well. Nice to see you, Beans.
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Not sure if you’re calling me stupid or Mr. Saad stupid here…
If it’s me, whatever floats your boat. Call me whatever you like.
If it’s Mr. Saad… That you think he’s stupid says more about you than him.
Awesome, lol
Just ran across him recently. (Which led me to Peterson but that’s a different post.)
I really appreciate how just straight forward and relatable he is. It’s really a simple concept, and he does a great job communicating it in a simple way. Contrasted to Peterson whom I have to sometimes rewind because he’ll lose me. (I’m into this stuff for a leisure activity. Sometimes I don’t have the energy for Peterson.)
Anyway, those two have been my recent listening/reading list, so it’s all fresh on my mind.
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It was in response to “cognitive privilege” and the idea that guys like the one in the meme should be running things.