Hypocaloric Diet Forever?

Nutrition
1

So as I sit here finishing up a Low-Carb Grow! shake on my last week of the V-diet, I have been thinking about what happens to your body if you were to just continue on with a hypocaloric diet.

Not that I plan on doing this. With the V-diet I have dropped my BF% from about 11% to 7% in 3 weeks with little to no LBM loss. I am satisfied and am coming off the diet and into some fresh new bottles of Carbolin 19!! :slight_smile:

So, since I have been able to lose fat and keep the muscle…what happens if a person were to just keeping going on a diet like the V-diet?

Does your body just adapt to the reducec calories and reach an equilibrium where you function normally on the lower calories?

Do you lose all your fat (that is possible) and then transition to losing muscle?

Do you completely FU*$ up your system?

Just thoughts floating around in my mind as I am avoiding actually doing any work this morning! :slight_smile:

-CCA

2

Slight Calorie restriction is a phenomenol idea. Its been really researched alot lately, cause studies done up on monkeys and such that have been on restrictive diets are a whole lot healthier and tend to live much longer than their conterparts. Whats probably going on? Less oxidative damage to the body from less food, and lower BMI will lead to an all around healthier bieng. I’ve been on a slightly restricted calorie diet for a year now, and i see no point in stopping. I feel and look great, my BF is prolly around 8 percent (guess), and my t levels are probably still elevated. As long as your gettin in the right amounts of protien, vitamins/minerals/fats and adequate sleep and rest, go on your gut man and how you feel.

3

I don’t think any hypocaloric diet would remain hypocaloric forever. At some point your metabolism would accomodate the lower energy level and it would become an isocaloric (is that the right word…) diet.

This isthe problem with the “bath tub” model of energy balance that everyone seems to love so much, metabolism is a dynamic system that changes in response to inputs and outputs.

That’s my two cents for what it’s worth.

4

[quote]conorh wrote:

This isthe problem with the “bath tub” model of energy balance that everyone seems to love so much, metabolism is a dynamic system that changes in response to inputs and outputs.

That’s my two cents for what it’s worth.

[/quote]

True that conorh…I speaking in laymans terms, as in what a “normal” persons daly calories in versus what his is actually coming in. Then again, with all the training he is probably doind, he is gonna need more calories coming in than your average joe.

Im just speaking in relative terms, like maybe eating a little bit less than your regular guy and having smaller meals split up throughout the day, and mainting a single digit bodyfat percentage for the rest of your life. Like i said I got my BF in the single digits and i would like to keep it there forever, I see no point in going back now.

5

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:
conorh wrote:

This isthe problem with the “bath tub” model of energy balance that everyone seems to love so much, metabolism is a dynamic system that changes in response to inputs and outputs.

That’s my two cents for what it’s worth.

True that conorh…I speaking in laymans terms, as in what a “normal” persons daly calories in versus what his is actually coming in. Then again, with all the training he is probably doind, he is gonna need more calories coming in than your average joe.

Im just speaking in relative terms, like maybe eating a little bit less than your regular guy and having smaller meals split up throughout the day, and mainting a single digit bodyfat percentage for the rest of your life. Like i said I got my BF in the single digits and i would like to keep it there forever, I see no point in going back now.

[/quote]

I think I can hear Professor X having a stroke right now…
You don’t necessarily need to eat “less”, but eat “smart” and DEFINITELY keep spreading it through 5-6 meals a day. As far as staying on the V-diet forever, I’m pretty sure there would be SOME kind of deficiency present in the long run, but I’m no expert. I know that Chris had specifically said in the beginning that this was a “short term” design.

6

Indians have done this forever when they feel it is time to DIE. They wonder off sit down dont eat and wither away.

Good luck tell us how the progress goes.

7

[quote]I think I can hear Professor X having a stroke right now…
You don’t necessarily need to eat “less”, but eat “smart” and DEFINITELY keep spreading it through 5-6 meals a day. As far as staying on the V-diet forever, I’m pretty sure there would be SOME kind of deficiency present in the long run, but I’m no expert. I know that Chris had specifically said in the beginning that this was a “short term” design. [/quote]

Absolutely…Thats generally what I was trying to say…To eat smart, just not overeat and ALWAYS maintain a single digit bodyfat percentage. Noone should be on a drastically low calorie diet forvere. i was just saying its probably a good idea to gooble down a little bit less calories than your average dude at your weight/training schedule…I know its alot more complicated than that obviously…

8

The thing with hypocaloric diets and significantly slowed ageing is the amount of restriction necessary. Many researchers think that to get measurable lifespan increases, one must restrict an amount of kcal (~30% below normal) that is nearly impossible to maintain. Still, I think there may be a smaller effect with more modest reduction and “kcal-restriction-mimetic behaviors” like exercise.

The strange irony about BMR is that a fast metabolism is coveted for fat reduction but BAD for longevity as has been pointed out above. (Perhaps SEARCH for the article “High Steaks” here on the site for more.)

Also, I once researched (the literature) in some pretty gory detail about the amount that can be restricted before “starvation mode” really sets in. (“Restriction Contradiction”)

I’ll keep a tab on this disussion, as I’ve been thinking about the pros and cons of ongoing mild kcal restriction for about 1.5 years since my last (metabolism-altering) BB competition.

Good stuff…

9

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:
Slight Calorie restriction is a phenomenol idea. Its been really researched alot lately, cause studies done up on monkeys and such that have been on restrictive diets are a whole lot healthier and tend to live much longer than their conterparts. Whats probably going on? Less oxidative damage to the body from less food, and lower BMI will lead to an all around healthier bieng. I’ve been on a slightly restricted calorie diet for a year now, and i see no point in stopping. I feel and look great, my BF is prolly around 8 percent (guess), and my t levels are probably still elevated. As long as your gettin in the right amounts of protien, vitamins/minerals/fats and adequate sleep and rest, go on your gut man and how you feel. [/quote]

I am very interested in your current stats and what your overall goal is. All of your posts seem to be directed at getting someone to stop growing. Weight, height, age?

10

[quote]Lonnie Lowery wrote:
I’ll keep a tab on this disussion, as I’ve been thinking about the pros and cons of ongoing mild kcal restriction for about 1.5 years since my last (metabolism-altering) BB competition.

Good stuff…
[/quote]

Would this simply be an attempt at life extension or are there other reasons involved?

Wouldn’t this work in opposition of bodybuilding goals and strength training?

Since the benefit to sport specific training is unjustified (needless to say, it would also work against the goals of the athlete) what purpose would this have for most members of this forum?

I personally have no desire to simply be alive at the age of 95+ unless many of the negatives of aging are also “cured”. I would think hormone therapy would be more the focus of someone with the goal to be strong well into old age.

11

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am very interested in your current stats and what your overall goal is. All of your posts seem to be directed at getting someone to stop growing. Weight, height, age?[/quote]

Hey, thanks for asking Im VERY interested in help from the experts here. There is just soooo much info to digest, and I have been only surfing this site for a short time. I started getting into fitness/exercise about a year ago. Long story short, i was outta shape and chubby. I was 5’7 and 175, BF% of about 21 percent. So I started here exercising about a year ago, and got into this site not to long ago, trying to inhale everything on this site as much as possible. I currently exercise about 3 days a week. Usually one day i rock climb or Brazilian jujitsu, and the other two days are for a sprint/plyometric seesion and a weight training session. Some weeks its BJJ twice and lift once, or rock climb all three. It really depends on what i feel like doing. My current stats are as follow:

Age 25
Height - 5’7
Weight - 140
BF - 8 percent
Bench - 235
Squat - 375
Deadlift - never maxed, I use 185 for reps
40 yard time - 4.68
Vertical - 30 inch
Pullups - 28 reps
Blue Belt in Brazilian Jujitsu

My goals are really simple - Stay as healthy and FEEL as healthy as I can for as long as I can. I like being trim and cut alot, the look suits me well. I would like to add 5-10 more lbs of muscle to 150 tops and drop to about 7 percent BF, for now. Maybe when i get there I might think about another 10 lbs, but we’ll see. i wanna get to 150 first and go from there. I’ll get a pic up asap but Im pretty well defined/cut. Not worried about being bigger, Im near a purple belt level in BJJ i would put a serious ass whippin on anyone around thats not a professional UFC fighter. My interest in T-Nation is definitely more so supplemental. Im really interested in how to manipulate the body’s hormonal systems to stay and FEEL healthy well into my 30’s 40’s and beyond. Im thinking long term. But Im starting slow, very slow. My t levels, Im GUESSING, have to be at least high normal. Havent had it measured. I’ve got all the signs of someone with a good t- level at my age(oily skin, acne, early male pattern baldness, aggressive, high sex drive, quick recovery, ring finger alot longer than index, sleep well). But thats just a guess.

Right now Im starting slow until I really learn everything possible and I know supplements like the back of my hand before I start into anything. Im definitelty thinking long term as far as supplements go - Im not interested in prohormones right now or steroids. Im more into maintenance stuff, stuff I can take forever. Right now Im on ZMA and Grow!. I have a Grow! shake for breakfast and I take 3 tabs of ZMA at night(I love the ZMA BTW) 5 days a week. Im supplement free on the weekend. Never took any other supplements in my life. Im probably gonna stay on that for awile then eventually add in M maybe, and low doses of Alpha Male cycles in the distant future, but not now. But like i said Im new to all of this and there is alot I have to learn.

I eat clean. I usually eat 5 meals a day. Half a grow shake for meal one and a piece of fruit, meal 2 is the same thing, meal three is usually a large steak sandwhich or chicken sandwhich and some carrots, meal 4 is always 8 oz of steak and a big plate of veggies with a slice of toast, and meal 5 is usually another 8 oz of steak and something sweet, like a donut or some cookies. Im very disciplined on eating well. Not sure of exact calorie intake, but prolly around 2800 give or take 500 on a given day. I’ve been at my current weight for awile now, so Im not losing anything any more. Thanks alot for any advise you might have.

12

[quote]Lonnie Lowery wrote:
The thing with hypocaloric diets and significantly slowed ageing is the amount of restriction necessary. Many researchers think that to get measurable lifespan increases, one must restrict an amount of kcal (~30% below normal) that is nearly impossible to maintain. Still, I think there may be a smaller effect with more modest reduction and “kcal-restriction-mimetic behaviors” like exercise.

The strange irony about BMR is that a fast metabolism is coveted for fat reduction but BAD for longevity as has been pointed out above. (Perhaps SEARCH for the article “High Steaks” here on the site for more.)

Also, I once researched (the literature) in some pretty gory detail about the amount that can be restricted before “starvation mode” really sets in. (“Restriction Contradiction”)

I’ll keep a tab on this disussion, as I’ve been thinking about the pros and cons of ongoing mild kcal restriction for about 1.5 years since my last (metabolism-altering) BB competition.

Good stuff…
[/quote]

Interesting. I saw a new study on the news. Albeit, it was a rodent study. It lowered an experimental groups of rodents bodyfat via drugs. There caloric intake did not decrease, but they were significantly leaner than control groups of the same intake. They also lived much longer. Obviously many more studies need to be done. But the researchers interpreted the study as suggesting that it is low levels of bodyfat more than caloric restriction than increases longevity. If this applies to humans (without such a drug), then this could be achieved by high levels of exercise without excessively restrictive diets.

13

Velvet, this was your advice above:

I have no doubt that everyone has different goals, but I think most would see yours as having absolutely nothing to do with overall strength or bodybuilding goals. You being “near” a purple belt in BJJ is great. Your 40 time is great. I won’t get into how I do not agree with your belief that you could take down anyone who wasn’t a professional UFC fighter. That idea usually only takes someone larger than you who is half way decently trained showing you what time it is. At 5’7", 140lbs, I have no doubt that you are cut. You may very well be a Bruce Lee clone for all I know (only smaller). It just amazes me your take on the situations of others. The guy above gave no hint that he wanted to also weigh under 150lbs. For most people, that is skinny as hell (near anorexic), even for someone who is 5’7".

You sound like the average guy with former fat boy syndrome. You are now so afraid of body fat, that you will give up adding any muscle mass for staying ridiculously lean.

I applaud your fighting ability. I think that is great as I never took my own training that far.

I am simply noting that you give the same advice in the photo’s section whenever one of the extremely small guys posts a pic asking if they should cut down. I don’t understand why even you, being a fighter, would want to be under 150lbs…ever. You seem to be stuck on dieting. I wasn’t aware this site was about that. But hey, you look great in clothes!..which actually bothers me more because I have seen the style of clothes at many stores lately and they pretty much add up to only differing from the women’s section by reducing the visibility of lace. Pink is now completely acceptable.

14

I agree with the Professor. At 5’7" and 140lbs, I’m sure you’re ripped to shreds, but that’s pretty small. I have a friend who is 5’7"-5’8" and 135-140lbs. Sure, he’s lean. But he’s small as hell and it wouldn’t take much to blow him over. And he’s weak as hell too (you have good strength for your bodyweight).

I have nothing against you, but as the Professor mentioned, some of your advice may not be applicable to everyone based on your own personal goals.

I am only 5’4" and I wouldn’t want to be 140lbs (or less) again. I’ve done it for various reasons (competing in Olympic lifting), but overall, I’d rather be bigger and leaner, rather than smaller, leaner and weaker. And I have a very small bone structure, so although my body can settle in at 135-145lbs pretty easily, that’s not where I want to be.

And without knowing someone’s stats ad goals, I wouldn’t give out information that wouldn’t be suitable for them. Just my two cents worth.

15

Hey,
Well yea its gonna take AT LEAST a purple belt in BJJ thats younger than 40, in great shape and well over 200 lbs to take me out. And last time i counted the percentage of the population with those credentials is less than one hundreth of a percent, LOL. So, protection wise, Im not worried about getting bigger. Anyways, forget all that nonesense - Your definitely right - being chubby and outta shaped scared the friggen hell outta me, and your right, im definitely going the slow road when It comes to gaining any weight. I’ve already gained 5( prolly half muscle) in the last 2 months. I just wanna take things one step at a time ya know? Im definitely gonna go up another 10 lbs to 150, no doubt about it. Im already in the process. I’ve got the workout thing/exercise thing down pat. I hit the FAQ site relentlessly bigtime instead of boring you guys with questions.

My question to you is, what supplements do you recommend, long term wise? Im looking to just stay healthy and fit and have solid hormone levels. I’ve definitely become obsessed with the hormone testosterone and I just wanna learn everything I can. I think its truly remarkable. What do you think of ZMA, and can i safely take it forever? (5 on 2 off split) What do you think of M? An option for me? Can i take it safely, for years, long term? Maybe Alpha Male in the future? What would you recommend a regular guy looking to stay healthy and on top of life on a day to day basis. Any help/advise MUCH appreciated.
Thank You guys

16

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
I agree with the Professor. At 5’7" and 140lbs, I’m sure you’re ripped to shreds, but that’s pretty small. I have a friend who is 5’7"-5’8" and 135-140lbs. Sure, he’s lean. But he’s small as hell and it wouldn’t take much to blow him over. And he’s weak as hell too (you have good strength for your bodyweight).
I.[/quote]

Ya I got good cuts. Thats what my goal was. to look good naked, LOL. Im definitely looking to jump another 10 lbs for sure to 150. And like I said before, strength isnt an issue for me. Always been a strong dude. Im guessing part genetics, always been a guy with alot of fast twitch muscle fibers, and im guessing, but I’ve got a hunch my t levels are naturally good. Like i said before im looking to keep what i got going on and maybe add 20 lbs over the course of the next 2 years, to maybe 160, and thats it. Stay that way forever. Im interested mostly in supplementation and keeping my body healthy and my hormone levels where they should be, using the natural route as long as possible before its time to see the doc when im in my 40’s or so. So until then Im going with ZMA for now and thinking about some other things - my questions/ideas are posted right above - Thanks nate for replying, I know you know your shit…