"I am currently finishing my 1st year of excercise physiology so this is not just an opinion it’s based on science. "
mpv…as you stated, your “OPINION” is BASED on science…that does not make it fact.
Getting all snotty will only get you volunteered for the initial Human studies.
“And to suggest that we’ve somehow “evolved” to lift weights is even worse…”
Doc…proof that lifting is NOT the result of advanced evolution is in evidence daily at my Gym.
If we are going to teach creation science as an alternative to evolution, then we should also teach the stork theory as an alternative to biological reproduction"
Ok, kid, now you’re just pissing me off. You’re NOT stating scientific fact. You’re stating what you believe to be fact without a bit of support for it, hence the word “opinion.” If you have these “facts,” please present them and cite your references.
“If you have something intelligent to say thats based on scientific fact,great, if not shut up and stop acting like some know it all jerk.”
Well said, and I’d suggest that you take your own advice. Now, I realize that you’ve completed a WHOLE YEAR of exercise science, so I’m not really worthy to debate this issue with you, but please humor me.
“The way it stands now there is no eveidence to support hyperplasia, and thats a fact!”
That’s not a fact, but you’re presenting it as such. You can be as stubborn as you want about it, but that doesn’t change a thing.
Your facts are bad, your logic is worse, and you’re WRONG. But thanks for playing the game anyway.
Has anyone ever heard of the term “pissing contest”? In case you haven’t, no one ever wins. Every one is entitled to think what they want, were all adults here (at least I think so) If you want I can break out my text book and start citing references but I’ll save that for the 20 page papers im required to write for class.
My purpose of starting this thread was to get educated opinions from credible sources not smartass responses from someone who has completed 15 credit hrs at a jr college.
MPV…you’ve been on the forum for a whole 4days now. If I were you, I’d start all over w/ a new screen name and attitude. If you have a 20pg paper w/ ref. you can e-mail it to me to prove me wrong. Or how about just one little bitty ref? Thats what I thought.
MPV - You sound just like many a professor I have heard speak to students. Two things about talking this way to people:
College professors speak this way to new graduate students in order to get them to understand the importance of the scientific process. In other words, they’re putting on a show and playing devils advocate a lot of times just to teach you something. Mainly, that assumption is wrong in the scientific process. It’s not the way they would speak to someone in a “real world” conversation though, such as this forum. Resistance training/strength coaching is an art as much as a science because there is so much that we don’t have “proof” of. So that is why opinions do matter. In the scientific world,an opinion sometimes gets turned into what is called a hypothesis. And hence, research is conducted and we learn.
Back to program design though now. If we did only what we had “proof” of, we’d still be arguing about 1 set versus multiset protocols…oh wait, those HIT guys still do that, don’t they? See what I mean?
College professors have to some degree earned the right to speak this way to people. Even then, they sound like assholes, and a lot of people then tune them out. You have completed 1 year of school and you’re acting like your a fully tenured professor…well, you are not. So stop acting like it.
In regard to your program that I asked you about. If you truly believe there is no evidence of hyperplasia, then I would assume that either you are in an undergraduate student, or in a poor graduate program.
FYI - I have completed my graduate degree in ex phys.
Text book??? I’m third year Ex Phys Biomechanics etc and I would look on PUBMED or a journal for a relevant citation or abstract as many t-mag readers do from time to time.
Do you know where you are and what kind of people come here. We see wetties like you come & go all the time and they crash & burn as the forum target(Harkonnen et al 2002 ha ha Most of them dont even reply to you. Do you realise this?
Bottom line, if you make a statement back it up or noone learns anything and everyone argues. It shouldn’t be a problem for a bloke as smart as you to whip up a couple of references.
i dont remember where i read or saw this, but somewhere i recall(i think) a muscle biopsy( i guess this means they removed a chunk of muscle tissue ; a little circle i think) from an ex-olympic swimmer and he did, indeed show signs( i dont know what these are) of hyperplasia in his delts. i dont know one way or the other but if this is/was a real study , certainly the info is out their somewhere.
(pauses after laying in a few finishing kicks) “Wow, a barrage from the some forum heavyweights. Will he be back to mount a meaningless counterattack” (throws a stone at the fleeing newbie who trips over a scattered pile of boxes before fleeing over a picket fence)
You guys really need to get out more. I guess I dont take this forum as seriously as the rest of you do. Trust me I am not the type to turn tail and run. I simply stated what I have been taught thus far in my education. My goal is not to be rude or condescending like most of the people I’ve come across in this forum so far. You all seem to think that you are the absolute authority on ex phys. Sorry to generalize for those that don’t act like this. FYI Im fairly certain that the scool I attend is well thought of. Most people call it BU
Thanks for the life lesson, son, but my life is just fine outside of the forum.
You said that you’ve simply stated what you’ve been taught. Here’s quite the newsflash. Not everything you’re taught is correct!! Wow! That’s the nature of research and science in general. You didn’t present it as being “what you were taught” but as indisputable fact.
Your goal may not to come across a certain way, but you certainly did as evidenced by the responses you got. You came across as cocky, full of yourself, and not open to what anybody else had to say. Then you qualified it with the fact that you’re a first year student. Can you see why you’re not to be taken seriously?
“You all seem to think that you are the absolute authority on ex phys.”
Not at all. We just happen to know that you’re wrong in this situation. Sorry for being right.
Ok, I have an article that supports hyperplasia. Here’s the reference:
Antonio, J., Gonyea, W.J. 1993. Skeletal muscle fiber hyperplasia. Medicine and Science in Sport and Exercise. 25:1333-45.
It talks about stretch-position movements, such as pullovers or DB flyes. It says that this can increase the number of muscle cells via fascial stretching and this can increase the number of fast-twitch fibers.
There are also opponents out there, so we are all entitled to be in our own “camp”. I don’t care either way. I just want to get big and strong. If this happens, woo hoo. If not, I’ll just have to work harder.
MPV,
Pull your head in son, first year phys, come on, give me a break.
Stating things as facts will 9 times out of ten turn around and kick you the ass somewhere down the road. Most of us know this because we thought we knew the “facts” when we were high and mighty in 1st year phys. All studies do is gives results, that are hopefully acurate, on the specific circumstance in which that particular study was performed on. we can then draw conclusions (correctly or incorrectly) about what happened in the study. The more studies that are done the better we can see what is really happening. none of this gives us facts. just insights so we can draw better conclusions.
The only thing we know for a fact is Ronnie Coleman is natural. well it must be, he said so.
Ok, quite the interesting reading on this thread, but I’d like to redirect back to the original question, or rather address differnt sides of it. To my knowledge (and don’t claim to be an expert) what I was taught in physiology was that muscle cells don’t replicate, they only hypertrophy. But also in the same vein, until recently it was common ‘knowledge’ doesn’t regenerate and never replicates. As recently as the last year, there has been convincing evidence coming out that suggest that nervous tissue (brain cells for ex) CAN and DO replicate.
I think what DocT was saying really sums it up. We really don’t know it all, and every time we think we know, we only discover how much more we have yet to know. And I can guarantee you that for every expert that advocates one thing, I can find another equally educated and experienced expert that says the exact opposite.
I just thought of something. Along the lines of atrophy with disuse, suppose that hyperplasia does occur, it it possible that extra development of cells could be destroyed and recycled with a layoff period?
If you think about it, on one hand, the body tends to breakdown and recycle that which it doesn’t need, so it makes sense that it would do so in hyperplastic muscle.
But on the other hand, research seems to suggest that if muscle does grow new cells, that it does so under great stress over long periods of time (ala years of bodybuilding), so perhaps that would suggest that those hard earned cells of duress might stick around longer.
Any thoughts. I realize there’s probably not a lot of data on that particular idea, but I’m sure there;s some smarties out there that can theorize with me…
MPV - I’m starting my Ph.D. program in Molecular Cell Biology this summer (about to graduate from undergrad in 2 weeks) so I’m in the same boat as you. After doing research in a few different labs for 3 years now, I’ve learned not to accept everything at face value, even if it is in a textbook. Most of the shit I’ve learned here has an opposing opinion, which has strong points also. It’s all in the textbook you read.
Congrats on getting more edumacation, as it can only help you, and many others (not pointing fingers). I love learning, and I love learning about many other topics (such as Greek mythology) than what I’ll be studying. It just makes a stronger, more rounded person who can formulate better arguments.
Good luck with your Ph.D. program, as I know I’ll need it too.
