HRT Guys - THANK YOU

Pharma TRT
61

[quote]e-loo wrote:
What do you experienced guys make of this?

I mentioned that I have a regular follow-up visit w the doc in a little less than a month. I asked his office to find out when he would want me to test, given the shot schedule to get the most accurate level.

The message I got back was that now that I am on intramuscular injections I do not need to get my levels tested before my visit w him.

But for the future, if I were to want to get my levels tested, then it would be done in the midpoint between shots. But don’t need to do it now.

This seems odd to me – on the one hand it seems like a good opportunity to move to weekly injections (or more) as you all have suggested. And then see how I feel over the month. And if things don’t seem right, bug the doc at the appointment.

[/quote]

Hi e-loo.

I find it surprising that especially within these first “testing” periods of your trials that the doc doesn’t want regular blood work to make sure things are progressing? How else will they determine what is going on? It’s not like we have a computer port, like on a car, that they can just hook into to get instant readings. (Although … can you imagine?..)

I switched from angrodel to once a week injections of T-Cyp due to the pain in the ass of putting that gel on daily. I’d rather stick myself with a needle. I’m pretty active, swimming in the summer especially, and the gel just doesn’t fit with my lifestyle.

I’ve got an Endo appt next week, to which I’m going to try the EOD approach that KSMan does. I do feel better the first few days after the injection, and then it tapers off on day 4-5-6, while like you looking forward to injection day again.

Mode is better, but I’m looking forward to testing the EOD theory and seeing if things level out. Also going to go on HCG and get my boys back. I think they went on vacation if you know what I mean.

As for sex. My “oddity” is that even before I started this HRT program, I have always had a huge libido. That said, within the past 2 years I started taking Cialis due to non-consistent erections. Not much better on the Test-Cyp either, without the Cialis. Must be a mechanical issue down there. I know the Test-Cyp is “working” because I have definitely gotten leaner, more muscular, oh and the little amount of zits is just so ironically wonderful at 43 years old <ahem…> but my mood is better and overall I like the HRT. Still “fine tuning” the delivery…time, and blood work, will tell…

62

Does HRT in general take a while to “kick in?” Am I going to feel better than I do now in three months or so, or is this it?

For example, in some of the androgel threads here and the research I read, it seems like people report that it took about 3 months treatment for their symptoms to alleviate.

Posters talk about how libido was the first thing to come back, then later more mental focus, then later still energy levels.

Is this also the case of HRT w testoterone shots?

63

I felt better in 6 weeks and my libido peaked then fell as many report. My skin had been thin and crinkly; at six weeks my skin was thicker and elastic.

100mg test cyp /week, once a week at that time, no HCG at that time. Muscle response came later, but probably could have been sooner if I had started lifting sooner. However, my lifting ability and CNS control over strength really came when I started HCG. My fat loss and occurred in two months and I went from 33" waist to 32" with my 32" pants feeling very loose. Whey shakes have really made a difference in muscle response to lifting.

With once a week injections I really felt each injection at first. Later not so much. But felt a big let down a few days after injecting. That led me to injecting EOD and that was a huge improvement and fits in with my routine of 250IU HCG EOD. The HCG is subq and the test cyp is 28mg/0.14ml via 1/2" #29 insulin syringe. If skin (fat) is thin on your legs, 1/2" IM is deep enough for such small volumes. (My doc agreed with that when I informed him of that thinking.)

64

KSman – good info, gives me a better idea of what to expect. I am I guess about 3 and 1/2 weeks in. If I had to describe where I am right now on your metrics

  1. Libido came back, but wanes as test wears off.

  2. When I went down to 150 ng/dl my muscles seemed to get really soft and “mushy.” Now they seem a little fuller again. Sounds like there will be more improvement there.

  3. Skin crinkly and saggy, maybe slightly more elastic who knows. Also sounds like there will be more improvement there.

  4. Body fat - I am carrying a lot more than you ever were! Am carrying most of my weight around my waist. I had been dieting during this period but not losing fat. Got worse as levels went down w androgel and striant. However I did start seeing some movement again since I started the test shots and see today I have lost about an inch around my waist. Sounds like there will be more improvement there.

  5. Mood & Mental Clarity – better, I’m not as irritable, and I seem to be a little clearer in my conceptual thinking. But really hoping it will get better still.

  6. Energy Level. Some days better than others. An improvement yes. I would like it to be better still.

I am curious, how did you approach your doc about
HCG, and how did you convince him to go with it?

[quote]KSman wrote:
I felt better in 6 weeks and my libido peaked then fell as many report. My skin had been thin and crinkly; at six weeks my skin was thicker and elastic.

100mg test cyp /week, once a week at that time, no HCG at that time. Muscle response came later, but probably could have been sooner if I had started lifting sooner. However, my lifting ability and CNS control over strength really came when I started HCG. My fat loss and occurred in two months and I went from 33" waist to 32" with my 32" pants feeling very loose. Whey shakes have really made a difference in muscle response to lifting.[/quote]

65

HGH: I was feeling like it was not quite working right. Partly mood and partly some of the pain in the testes coming and going. That was on the 250iu EOD on days 5,6 of the weekly injection cycle. I was reading this site like crazy and also sifting through the internet when I found the 250iu EOD research. I emailed my doc with the research abstract and he said to go ahead the next week. The added HCG does also add more test to the injected amounts. I think that my comments about there finally been a research based guidance for LH replacement appealed to his HRT goals. And after getting on that EOD, my muscles really started to respond to CNS demands for strength. Mood improved too.

Libido: This is my understanding. You start to inject or whatever. You react to the increased T levels as well as the transient increases. You get horny. Meanwhile the body does not get off on the transient levels any more. And E levels start to accumulate as T aromatizes to E. The E also kills libido. The liver sees the higher E levels and increased SHBG. I expect that the liver also increases SHBG from T levels. The increased SHBG reduces free T levels below what you felt during your early horny phase. So T and FT increase, transient increase effects fade, E increases, SHBG increases and FT decreases. E competes for T receptors and that also blunts libido.

Anti-estrogen: I was getting lots of persistent nocturnal wood. Often to the point of discomfort. But morning wood had become non-existent. I told the doc what was going on and stated that we should be working to get morning wood as an indicator that the treatment was working right and expressed my opinion that E was the problem. He put me on Arimidex and I obtained liquid anastrozole to fill the script as the costs for Arimidex were too much without health insurance. It is working quite well, morning wood is back and all other libido aspects are improved. Still not where I was in June feeling like I could line up the ladies and to them all.

Weight and fat: When I felt that I was getting flabby, but still thin; I reduced calories and probably was simply loosing muscle, loosing weight, but not loosing any fat. Low muscle mass then means that the fat cells can take most of the nutrients after a meal. It was a real loosing situation, that steeled my resolve to seek HRT/TRT.

Syndrome X /metabolic disorder: Carrying fat around the waist and belly is a classic indication of this. Then low test, high E is also typical as is insulin resistance. This fat state increases T–>E and is a trap that you cannot get out of. Cholesterol can go wacky too. As well as TRT, nutritional changes to tackle the insulin resistance is needed which also improve the cell wall permeability, and response to insulin and other steroid and peptide hormones. Chromium supplements improve insulin receptivity. Insulin resistance leads to higher blood sugars and more glycated proteins that are an aging process.

“Glucose is the prime source of fuel for generating energy; but glucose has its dark side. Glucose can bind tightly to proteins and form abnormal (glycated) complexes that progressively damage tissue elasticity. An increased stiffness in the cardiovascular system, which leads to high blood pressure and an overworked heart, is one of the striking features of aging.”

Mood, energy and CNS: These are all related. And as the CNS improves, more can strength can be called up from the muscles, the muscles start to respond to the CNS demand for force and training response can increase very dramatically. If you make the changes to improve cell wall functions, the brain works better. Fish oil is very important for this. The bulk of the dry mass of the brain is essential fatty acids and if one has been eating the wrong fats for years, the CNS will not be as it should be. Other things to take improve energy levels by improving how the mitochondria function. Antioxidants, C0Q10, acetyl l carnitine, alpha lipoic acid are all valuable.

66

[quote]KSman wrote:
Anti-estrogen: I was getting lots of persistent nocturnal wood. Often to the point of discomfort. But morning wood had become non-existent. I told the doc what was going on and stated that we should be working to get morning wood as an indicator that the treatment was working right and expressed my opinion that E was the problem. He put me on Arimidex and I obtained liquid anastrozole to fill the script as the costs for Arimidex were too much without health insurance. It is working quite well, morning wood is back and all other libido aspects are improved. Still not where I was in June feeling like I could line up the ladies and to them all.[/quote]

WOW - This is something I am experiencing – several strong (almost painful) erections during the night, nothing in the morning. I had not thought anything of this, just assuming that it was a good sign. I will ask doc about this.

I have managed to control my diabetis w diet and exercise in the last few years. I had been on really high dosages of humalog. And went thru a period when I was prescibed supplemental pills for “insulin resistance.” So there you have it.

(Now though, I am basically off of injectable insulin. )

Am supplementing now w about 6000mg a day of fish oil, and had started to look at some of these other supps for mitochondria function. Yr post gives me more motivation on that end.

I think I really need to look into the estrogen issue. Thnks for the tip. . .

67

Something to take to the Doc re frequency of injections - in case anybody needs it; this goes back to KSman and bushidobadboy telling me to be proactive about dosage frequency:

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF CLINICAL ENDOCRINOLOGISTS
MEDICAL GUIDELINES FOR CLINICAL PRACTICE
FOR THE EVALUATION AND TREATMENT OF HYPOGONADISM
IN ADULT MALE PATIENTS?2002 UPDATE

P 11:

An interesting statement on the same page-- at least interesting to me:

[quote]
Attaining full virilization in the patient with hypogonadism may take as long as 3 to 4 years.[/quote]

68

Well another update – hoping that this thread is still useful for somebody who is going thru the HRT threads like I used to do.

I played my electric guitar this week for the first time in about three years. I really enjoyed it, and played about a hour a day for most days this week.

Again it was something that before seemed as it if was too much effort – open the case, find a cable, plug in the amp, plug in the guitar, tune it, find a pick, form a chord w left hand and strum w the right. Just WAY too much trouble, and way to exhausting even just thinking about it.

So this seems like a good sign.

I see the doc for my follow up visit on Tuesday. I have a little concern that I’m developing some gyno – esp on the left side, so I will have him check that.

I will show him the literature I’ve found about weekly injections – if he is amenable, great. If not, I’ll move ahead with it anyway. The crash before this last injection was pretty bad – I just don’t do very well on low normal. So I’ll detail that as much as possible.

I think he may want to put me back on androgel @ 10mg, as before I started the shots he was trying to move me in that direction, telling me he though we could reach 400ng/dl free test at that dosage. That sounded pretty low to me – given how badly I felt those years I was a low normal. I will hold my ground w the shots, and see how it goes w every week.

69

I am thinking that most men need anti-estrogen when on TRT. Gyno should be the last of ones concerns, that does not mean there is a fire risk… but the house has already burnt down. I am getting a strong feeling that morning wood should be the indicator that E levels are appropriate.

High T is not enough and if E is within normal ranges, the competition of E for T receptors can mess things up, even with high T levels.

And folks are probably getting tired if hearing my rants about HCG…

Blood levels of E are not really highly useful. Everyone is different and the levels that make you feel and perform better are unknown. Things need to be tried and the only one fit to make such judgements is yourself… not a doctor. 0

A doctor should be probing to find out how you are doing, not just looking for pathological extremes and keeping you withing normal ranges. My doctor visits are one hour give or take. If a doctor is stuck in some kind of dogma and range numbers only, this will not work. Your responsibility should be to make careful notes about how you feel and get a doc that pays careful consideration to what you have written. You need written notes to control the agenda in the visits.

So the take home message is that you can be on T, you can loose fat, make muscle, gain weight, improve skin and nails, faster hair growth and for many lots of new hair. Those are good anabolic and androgenic responses. However libido, morning wood and other mental balance/energy/mood-attitude issues can still be bogus if E is interfering with the actions of free T; even when the numbers for E are in normal range.

Another energy issue… are thyroid levels ok?

70

[quote]KSman wrote:
I am thinking that most men need anti-estrogen when on TRT.

Blood levels of E are not really highly useful. Everyone is different and the levels that make you feel and perform better are unknown.

A doctor should be probing to find out how you are doing, not just looking for pathological extremes and keeping you withing normal ranges. My doctor visits are one hour give or take. If a doctor is stuck in some kind of dogma and range numbers only, this will not work. Your responsibility should be to make careful notes about how you feel and get a doc that pays careful consideration to what you have written. You need written notes to control the agenda in the visits.

Another energy issue… are thyroid levels ok?[/quote]

Thyroid levels were good in initial labs. I do feel increased energy, it is tracking the spike of the testosterone injections. I just feel like it could be better. I used to have a real tenacity about things . . .I am getting some glimmers of that again, but it isn’t there yet. I am hopeful that things will continue to get better, because I have suffered from low test symptoms since at least 2003, maybe as early as late 2001. So it seems like I have a fair amount of damage that needs to be undone.

I have tried real hard to emphasize to the doc that a) I spent several years at low normal and I felt like crap. So low normal will not cut it. Consequently b) who knows what is “normal” for me? I hope I am getting it thru his head, but am certainly going to try to drill it in a little more.

Detailed notes is a good idea and, thanks for the reminder – I will go in armed with them!

I’m going to a real top notch endocrinology clinic. My doc is good, compassionate, knowledgeable and I trust him. But it is becoming real clear to me (with you guys help) that we patients have to be aggressive on this.

I think the problem that we all run into is that for the most part, hypogonadism is lower on physician’s radar than other things. The real bread and butter for them is Diabetis and Fertility. Docs who actually specialize in male hypogonadism seem to be few and far between.

Anyway, will keep you posted w what happens next.

–

71

Hey guys,

    I'm 26 days into my HRT. 2 injections so far of 200 mg. of Testosterone Enanthate. 3rd injection this Wednesday. It seems I've had no relief of any of my symptoms which has left me feeling really down and thinking WTF do I do now?????

    I've also just been sent to have my prolactin levels checked as I've had galactorrhea for some time(more than a year and a half!). Now, my specialist(shrink) kinda freaked when I mentioned that side effect but my regular doc who is usually right on the ball, said it was a common side effect for people that have been on the drug Seroquel(which I have been for some time). I've done a LOT of reading on the net on Seroquel and it doesn't seem to be a common side effect from everything I've read. So she's probably gonna requisition a CT scan to rule out the possibililty of a prolactinoma (pituitary tumor causing excess prolactin secretion).

Has anyone here had experience with high prolactin levels, Seroquil and/or prolactinoma’s???

I’m lost and somewhat freaked out.
Most of all, I’m just tired of feeling like an 85 year old grumpy man with depression and panic disorder. I’m 32 for god’s sake!!! Life HAS to be better than this…

Kaleb.

72

[quote]Kaleb wrote:
Hey guys,

    I'm 26 days into my HRT. 2 injections so far of 200 mg. of Testosterone Enanthate. 3rd injection this Wednesday. It seems I've had no relief of any of my symptoms which has left me feeling really down and thinking WTF do I do now?????

    I've also just been sent to have my prolactin levels checked as I've had galactorrhea for some time(more than a year and a half!). Now, my specialist(shrink) kinda freaked when I mentioned that side effect but my regular doc who is usually right on the ball, said it was a common side effect for people that have been on the drug Seroquel(which I have been for some time). I've done a LOT of reading on the net on Seroquel and it doesn't seem to be a common side effect from everything I've read. So she's probably gonna requisition a CT scan to rule out the possibililty of a prolactinoma (pituitary tumor causing excess prolactin secretion).

Has anyone here had experience with high prolactin levels, Seroquil and/or prolactinoma’s???

I’m lost and somewhat freaked out.
Most of all, I’m just tired of feeling like an 85 year old grumpy man with depression and panic disorder. I’m 32 for god’s sake!!! Life HAS to be better than this…

Kaleb.[/quote]

Search this site for dostinex and gabergoline (same thing) and read. This compound reduces prolatctin. Until the prolactin is gone, you will not have much interest or ability for sex. That could be depressing.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1283752

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1340331

Injectioning every two weeks is insane. If you are self injecting, start to spread that out. Many feel that 100mg once a week is torture. I inject my 100mg/week as 28mg EOD with insuline syringes. You need HCG to stop your testicles from going bye bye. HCG also seems to improve mood for many… it did for me. What are you doing to avoid T–>E conversion? E might be teaming up with prolactin to cause your problem.

73

[quote]KSman wrote:
Kaleb wrote:
Hey guys,

    I'm 26 days into my HRT. 2 injections so far of 200 mg. of Testosterone Enanthate. 3rd injection this Wednesday. It seems I've had no relief of any of my symptoms which has left me feeling really down and thinking WTF do I do now?????

    I've also just been sent to have my prolactin levels checked as I've had galactorrhea for some time(more than a year and a half!). Now, my specialist(shrink) kinda freaked when I mentioned that side effect but my regular doc who is usually right on the ball, said it was a common side effect for people that have been on the drug Seroquel(which I have been for some time). I've done a LOT of reading on the net on Seroquel and it doesn't seem to be a common side effect from everything I've read. So she's probably gonna requisition a CT scan to rule out the possibililty of a prolactinoma (pituitary tumor causing excess prolactin secretion).

Has anyone here had experience with high prolactin levels, Seroquil and/or prolactinoma’s???

I’m lost and somewhat freaked out.
Most of all, I’m just tired of feeling like an 85 year old grumpy man with depression and panic disorder. I’m 32 for god’s sake!!! Life HAS to be better than this…

Kaleb.

Search this site for dostinex and gabergoline (same thing) and read. This compound reduces prolatctin. Until the prolactin is gone, you will not have much interest or ability for sex. That could be depressing.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1283752

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1340331

Injectioning every two weeks is insane. If you are self injecting, start to spread that out. Many feel that 100mg once a week is torture. I inject my 100mg/week as 28mg EOD with insuline syringes. You need HCG to stop your testicles from going bye bye. HCG also seems to improve mood for many… it did for me. What are you doing to avoid T–>E conversion? E might be teaming up with prolactin to cause your problem.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info. The injection frequencies and dosages are NOT up to me at this point. I’m seeing a plain ol’ MD and there not exactly experts with HRT. I think he will hopefully be referring me to an Endo.

Up here in Canada, getting just the testosterone can be a huge argument/ordeal with the medical doctors and community. Adding in things like HCG and stuff will only likely happen after a LONG fought battle with a a GOOD endocrinologist.

I’m also in a serious “financial situation” due to long term mental illness so money is unforunately a large limiting factor in what I can afford to use.
All I can do right now is the test.enanthate and hope for a quick referral to an endo.

Oh yeah, gotta rule out the prolactinoma too. Not only does that jack your prolactin levels but it also blocks proper dopamine transmission.
Super screwed!!!

Thanks for the info though. I will continue the fight for the better quality of life I feel I rightfully deserve.

Cheers,
Kaleb.

74

[quote]KSman wrote:
However libido, morning wood and other mental balance/energy/mood-attitude issues can still be bogus if E is interfering with the actions of free T; even when the numbers for E are in normal range.

Another energy issue… are thyroid levels ok?[/quote]

Very, very interesting Ksman, and that has been EXACTLY true for me. Despite having a test level of 490, 18.9 free, I never get morning wood and my mental balance/energy comes and goes. Guess what? My estrogen is elevated, 47(10 - 50). Interesting, and makes alot of sense.

75

[quote]Kaleb wrote:
KSman wrote:
Kaleb wrote:
Hey guys,

    I'm 26 days into my HRT. 2 injections so far of 200 mg. of Testosterone Enanthate. 3rd injection this Wednesday. It seems I've had no relief of any of my symptoms which has left me feeling really down and thinking WTF do I do now?????

    I've also just been sent to have my prolactin levels checked as I've had galactorrhea for some time(more than a year and a half!). Now, my specialist(shrink) kinda freaked when I mentioned that side effect but my regular doc who is usually right on the ball, said it was a common side effect for people that have been on the drug Seroquel(which I have been for some time). I've done a LOT of reading on the net on Seroquel and it doesn't seem to be a common side effect from everything I've read. So she's probably gonna requisition a CT scan to rule out the possibililty of a prolactinoma (pituitary tumor causing excess prolactin secretion).

Has anyone here had experience with high prolactin levels, Seroquil and/or prolactinoma’s???

I’m lost and somewhat freaked out.
Most of all, I’m just tired of feeling like an 85 year old grumpy man with depression and panic disorder. I’m 32 for god’s sake!!! Life HAS to be better than this…

Kaleb.

Search this site for dostinex and gabergoline (same thing) and read. This compound reduces prolatctin. Until the prolactin is gone, you will not have much interest or ability for sex. That could be depressing.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1283752

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1340331

Injectioning every two weeks is insane. If you are self injecting, start to spread that out. Many feel that 100mg once a week is torture. I inject my 100mg/week as 28mg EOD with insuline syringes. You need HCG to stop your testicles from going bye bye. HCG also seems to improve mood for many… it did for me. What are you doing to avoid T–>E conversion? E might be teaming up with prolactin to cause your problem.

Thanks for the info. The injection frequencies and dosages are NOT up to me at this point. I’m seeing a plain ol’ MD and there not exactly experts with HRT. I think he will hopefully be referring me to an Endo.

Up here in Canada, getting just the testosterone can be a huge argument/ordeal with the medical doctors and community. Adding in things like HCG and stuff will only likely happen after a LONG fought battle with a a GOOD endocrinologist.

I’m also in a serious “financial situation” due to long term mental illness so money is unforunately a large limiting factor in what I can afford to use.
All I can do right now is the test.enanthate and hope for a quick referral to an endo.

Oh yeah, gotta rule out the prolactinoma too. Not only does that jack your prolactin levels but it also blocks proper dopamine transmission.
Super screwed!!!

Thanks for the info though. I will continue the fight for the better quality of life I feel I rightfully deserve.

Cheers,
Kaleb.[/quote]

Kaleb,
In the mean time, before you can get your hands on hCG and an anti estrogen, I would highly, highly recommend Alpha Male. Its definitely the best thing you can do until the mean time. The Vitex will help counteract at least a little estrogen, and the TRIBEX will help your boys out a little bit, until you can get what you properly need(aromisin/hCG).

I have also read that Vitex lowers prolactin levels as well.

76

[quote]T-Nick wrote:
Kaleb wrote:
KSman wrote:
Kaleb wrote:
Hey guys,

    I'm 26 days into my HRT. 2 injections so far of 200 mg. of Testosterone Enanthate. 3rd injection this Wednesday. It seems I've had no relief of any of my symptoms which has left me feeling really down and thinking WTF do I do now?????

    I've also just been sent to have my prolactin levels checked as I've had galactorrhea for some time(more than a year and a half!). Now, my specialist(shrink) kinda freaked when I mentioned that side effect but my regular doc who is usually right on the ball, said it was a common side effect for people that have been on the drug Seroquel(which I have been for some time). I've done a LOT of reading on the net on Seroquel and it doesn't seem to be a common side effect from everything I've read. So she's probably gonna requisition a CT scan to rule out the possibililty of a prolactinoma (pituitary tumor causing excess prolactin secretion).

Has anyone here had experience with high prolactin levels, Seroquil and/or prolactinoma’s???

I’m lost and somewhat freaked out.
Most of all, I’m just tired of feeling like an 85 year old grumpy man with depression and panic disorder. I’m 32 for god’s sake!!! Life HAS to be better than this…

Kaleb.

Search this site for dostinex and gabergoline (same thing) and read. This compound reduces prolatctin. Until the prolactin is gone, you will not have much interest or ability for sex. That could be depressing.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1283752

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1340331

Injectioning every two weeks is insane. If you are self injecting, start to spread that out. Many feel that 100mg once a week is torture. I inject my 100mg/week as 28mg EOD with insuline syringes. You need HCG to stop your testicles from going bye bye. HCG also seems to improve mood for many… it did for me. What are you doing to avoid T–>E conversion? E might be teaming up with prolactin to cause your problem.

Thanks for the info. The injection frequencies and dosages are NOT up to me at this point. I’m seeing a plain ol’ MD and there not exactly experts with HRT. I think he will hopefully be referring me to an Endo.

Up here in Canada, getting just the testosterone can be a huge argument/ordeal with the medical doctors and community. Adding in things like HCG and stuff will only likely happen after a LONG fought battle with a a GOOD endocrinologist.

I’m also in a serious “financial situation” due to long term mental illness so money is unforunately a large limiting factor in what I can afford to use.
All I can do right now is the test.enanthate and hope for a quick referral to an endo.

Oh yeah, gotta rule out the prolactinoma too. Not only does that jack your prolactin levels but it also blocks proper dopamine transmission.
Super screwed!!!

Thanks for the info though. I will continue the fight for the better quality of life I feel I rightfully deserve.

Cheers,
Kaleb.

Kaleb,
In the mean time, before you can get your hands on hCG and an anti estrogen, I would highly, highly recommend Alpha Male. Its definitely the best thing you can do until the mean time. The Vitex will help counteract at least a little estrogen, and the TRIBEX will help your boys out a little bit, until you can get what you properly need(aromisin/hCG).

I have also read that Vitex lowers prolactin levels as well.[/quote]

Thanks man. I will do some shopping and let you know how it helps!

Cheers,
Kaleb.

77

Update – Saw my endo.

Summarizing – Your testosterone was suppressed for at least a year and a half before you started treatment. It is WAY too soon for you to be stabilized. This is going to take some time for you to feel 100% better. You are pretty much where what I would expect for someone a month and a half into treatment.

He had no problem w me increasing dosage frequency of the delatestryl. However he is skeptical that it will help much in leveling things out for me, He is very negative about the spikes and lows associated w injections. Much happier w steady-state delivery promised by transdermals. However, agrees that transdermals are not going to work for me.

He has a lot of optimism about Nebido, which is the injectable testosterone that supposedly delivers steady-state concentrations of test for a 12 week period. In use in Europe, doc thinks will be available in US this year.

So he seems to feel that we are pretty much playing a waiting game for Nebido.

Some info on Nebido in this Cy Willson article here, about midway down:

Get Your Mojo Back!
A Guide to Testosterone Replacement

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=899116

He didn’t find any evidence of gynecomastia. He agreed to look at estrogen levels in the labs we drew for free test, PSA and Liver function, but does not expect to find anything out of ordinary. Again emphasising that too soon in treatment – not enough time to be stabilized yet.

So hopefully these labs will come back fine. Will hear back next week. And next injection the 29th. I have to decide whether to try out everyweek for a while and see how that goes, or get more aggressive w dividing up the dosage further.

78

Here I sit, groggy as hell, feeling like I have a hang-over, even though I don’t drink.

Next shot is this coming Wednesday. I’ve decided to try once a week and see how that goes. If it isn’t working for me then I will increase frequency of injection, trying KSman’s techniques w insulin syringes.

The more I think about it, I am pretty interested in these labs, esp the testosterone numbers.

This last shot did not seem to last too long. I suspect that my testosterone levels were lower than they should be in the trough. I am wondering if perhaps the doc will need to increase the dosage.

I did get my Liver labs back – all normal, which is a relief.

I don’t expect any issues w PSA.

79

“This last shot did not seem to last too long. I suspect that my testosterone levels were lower than they should be in the trough. I am wondering if perhaps the doc will need to increase the dosage.”

I was feeling like my weekly injections 100mg/wk test cyp) were lasting less and less. My lab work had total T near 900! I don’t feel that way with my EOD injections. (So perhaps it is not more that you need, but not falling off the cliff as the weekly injection fades.) So that made me feel better.

With my high TT at 3.5 days after injecting, my blood work showed that I was in perfect shape when I was feeling rather crappy. Adding HCG certainly helped as well. E can also cause problems and I think that anti-E has to be tried to find out.

80

Those labs from last week:

Liver number all normal

PSA 0.71 ng/mL (0.0 - 3.5)
Total Testosterone 642 ng/dl (6 days after 200mg shot)
Estradiol 40 pg/mL (15-54)

Unfortunately I don’ t have an initial estradiol result, or at least can’t find it.

Nor could I get a free test number when I called – pretty sure he ordered it, will probably have to drop by the office to get it.

I must say that it is nice to see that number, 642 ng/dl – looks much nicer than 152 ng/dl. But numbers are numbers – we’ll see how it goes from here.

I will call the doc about estradiol – yes it is within normal range but seems high normal.

Tomorrow is shot day – still trying to decide whether to go 100mg per week or spliting it in half and do 50mg every third day.