HRT Guys - THANK YOU

Pharma TRT
41

[quote]T-Nick wrote:
To everyone here fustrated with your docs - DUMP THEM. Find yourself a doctor specializing in age management therapy, anti aging and the like. These people are LOOKING for people like you at any age. I have a doctor like this.

Unless your testing high range, they will help you get there. Bottom line.[/quote]

I have been looking!
I went for mood , low libido, and lack of interest in things like earlier posts mentioned… My sister administers test shots to those with wasting diseases, and she reccommended my looking into HRT.

My doc told me none in the Indianapolis area would give me anything. The total free was all that was tested. All was well, according to the doc.

Looking on the internet, the numbers I was given came out to what an 18 year old would have. Doubtful for an overweight 41 year old!
My doc suggested cialis or viagra and some mood drug instead.

42

Hello gang,

      I'll be 32 in a couple months and I have just begun HRT. 200mg injections of Test.Enanthate every 2 weeks for the same symptoms everyone knows about; fatigue, exhaustion, loss of libido, "brain fog", cognitive functioning impairment, depression, anxiety and severe irritability.

      It's been 4 days. I'm really hoping to get some improvement. I will keep posting with updates as to how I do. I'm praying this works as I've been on so many antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds/tranquilizers, mood stabilizers, blah, blah, blah, that it makes me sick to my stomach to look at the list of everything I've been treated with(including multiple stays in the "Loony Bin").

Some of those drugs helped the symptoms TEMPORARILY but never worked on the root of the problem which is why I am now undergoing HRT.

  Talk to you all soon.

Cheers,
Kaleb.

43

[quote]Kaleb wrote:
Hello gang,

      I'll be 32 in a couple months and I have just begun HRT. 200mg injections of Test.Enanthate every 2 weeks for the same symptoms everyone knows about; fatigue, exhaustion, loss of libido, "brain fog", cognitive functioning impairment, depression, anxiety and severe irritability.

      It's been 4 days. I'm really hoping to get some improvement. I will keep posting with updates as to how I do. I'm praying this works as I've been on so many antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds/tranquilizers, mood stabilizers, blah, blah, blah, that it makes me sick to my stomach to look at the list of everything I've been treated with(including multiple stays in the "Loony Bin").

Some of those drugs helped the symptoms TEMPORARILY but never worked on the root of the problem which is why I am now undergoing HRT.

  Talk to you all soon.

Cheers,
Kaleb.[/quote]

The test will help a lot. Are you self injecting? Injections every two weeks will over stimulate then leave you down for the last week. Given your mood issues, that might drag you down.

If you self inject, then 100mg every week would be much better. But that left me down for the last 3 days of the week. I now inject 28mg EOD that that does not have ups and downs. It is possible to inject test cyp with a #29 insulin syringe, .5" .5ml.

Takes a while to d draw up. Injection time for 28mg (.14ml) will be about 15 seconds. Inject in the upper leg, vastus lateralis. Look for and avoid veins. This is only suitable for thin skin to get an IM shot with the short 0.5" needle.

Test cyp and test eth have different oil bases, and one may flow better than the other. When drawing up with the suggested syringe, the preservative alcohol will boil in the vacuum and recombine as things progress.

Also search and read about HCG. For HRT, dose should be 250IU EOD. That will keep the testes from shrinking and for some will stop the pain that occurs. Forums to read are steroid and “over 35 lifter”.

45

Hey Everyone,

I never thought I would have a problem with T-levels and I think I am still in denial now. Last year I went to see a doctor about an unrelated medical issue and he wanted to do blood work. He later informed me that my T-level was “in the tank” (my T-level numbers were under 200) and that I was “tapped out and finished” when it came to competitive powerlifting and being drug-free.

He wanted me on HRT and I refused it and then wanted an ultrasound on my liver done. I figured this guy was “fishing” so I never did any of it and didn’t go back.

I continued to train and experienced some strength gains and competed at the AAU Worlds and did great. The progress continued very slowly into this year and I competed in a meet last Summer and did very well with all PR’s on my lifts. I concluded that the doctor that I had seen last year was just goofin’ on me.

A month ago I went to another doctor for a minor injury I was suffering from and then this doctor decided to go “fishing” as well. I saw him last week and heard the same thing I did last year. My T-level was 137 and he told me I had hypogonadism. I couldn’t believe it.

Despite my protests he insisted that I go on HRT. I was against this because I thought it make me have a positive drug test for competing. The doctor told me that it would only bring me up to normal levels.

I am 39 years old and have been drug-free my entire lifting career. It was hard for me to accept this diagnosis because I had none of the symptoms that I should have for that low of a T-level. I feel great, have a great sex life, continue to get a little stronger here and there…I mean the list goes on and on.

I couldn’t point to anything in my past that could have caused this problem. All the doctor could say was, “You have the problem and that’s that”.

I had read posts on this forum before about the nightmares with Androgel. I asked the doctor if that was what he was going to put me on. He said it would be Testim. Before I left the office he insisted that I have an injection of testosterone to help get me started. What the heck, right? I took it. He’s got me on Testim 5g a day. You know the drill.

How is it possible to have this low of a T-level and yet have no symptoms at all?

What can I expect from Testim? I have done some reading on this and I know that my own production will stop once I get on this. Are my nuts going to shrink? Will I now start to have the symptoms that I am supposed to? I just still can’t believe it. It just doesn’t make sense. I keep thinking that the doctor had someone else’s lab slip mixed up with mine.

How can I experience gains in strength, have an erection whenever and however long I want, etc., and have this low of a T-level? Has anyone else been down this road?

I know this has been a long post. Thanks for your patience and any insights that you can offer.

46

[quote]Kaleb wrote:
Hello gang,

      I'll be 32 in a couple months and I have just begun HRT. 200mg injections of Test.Enanthate every 2 weeks for the same symptoms everyone knows about; fatigue, exhaustion, loss of libido, "brain fog", cognitive functioning impairment, depression, anxiety and severe irritability.

      It's been 4 days. I'm really hoping to get some improvement. I will keep posting with updates as to how I do. I'm praying this works as I've been on so many antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds/tranquilizers, mood stabilizers, blah, blah, blah, that it makes me sick to my stomach to look at the list of everything I've been treated with(including multiple stays in the "Loony Bin").

Some of those drugs helped the symptoms TEMPORARILY but never worked on the root of the problem which is why I am now undergoing HRT.

  Talk to you all soon.

Cheers,
Kaleb.[/quote]

Very cool, thanks for posting, and Im interested in your results, post them!

47

[quote]Raw Power wrote:
Hey Everyone,

I never thought I would have a problem with T-levels and I think I am still in denial now. Last year I went to see a doctor about an unrelated medical issue and he wanted to do blood work. He later informed me that my T-level was “in the tank” (my T-level numbers were under 200) and that I was “tapped out and finished” when it came to competitive powerlifting and being drug-free.

He wanted me on HRT and I refused it and then wanted an ultrasound on my liver done. I figured this guy was “fishing” so I never did any of it and didn’t go back.

I continued to train and experienced some strength gains and competed at the AAU Worlds and did great. The progress continued very slowly into this year and I competed in a meet last Summer and did very well with all PR’s on my lifts. I concluded that the doctor that I had seen last year was just goofin’ on me.

A month ago I went to another doctor for a minor injury I was suffering from and then this doctor decided to go “fishing” as well. I saw him last week and heard the same thing I did last year. My T-level was 137 and he told me I had hypogonadism. I couldn’t believe it.

Despite my protests he insisted that I go on HRT. I was against this because I thought it make me have a positive drug test for competing. The doctor told me that it would only bring me up to normal levels.

I am 39 years old and have been drug-free my entire lifting career. It was hard for me to accept this diagnosis because I had none of the symptoms that I should have for that low of a T-level. I feel great, have a great sex life, continue to get a little stronger here and there…I mean the list goes on and on.

I couldn’t point to anything in my past that could have caused this problem. All the doctor could say was, “You have the problem and that’s that”.

I had read posts on this forum before about the nightmares with Androgel. I asked the doctor if that was what he was going to put me on. He said it would be Testim. Before I left the office he insisted that I have an injection of testosterone to help get me started. What the heck, right? I took it. He’s got me on Testim 5g a day. You know the drill.

How is it possible to have this low of a T-level and yet have no symptoms at all?

What can I expect from Testim? I have done some reading on this and I know that my own production will stop once I get on this. Are my nuts going to shrink? Will I now start to have the symptoms that I am supposed to? I just still can’t believe it. It just doesn’t make sense. I keep thinking that the doctor had someone else’s lab slip mixed up with mine.

How can I experience gains in strength, have an erection whenever and however long I want, etc., and have this low of a T-level? Has anyone else been down this road?

I know this has been a long post. Thanks for your patience and any insights that you can offer. [/quote]

I’d say this - your doctor is right first off, but the reason you feel great despite low test is that you probably do so many other things right.

Most people that suffer from low test and finally get treatment(usually in there 40’s and beyond) often lead sedentary, unhealthy lifestyles. They are generally unhealthy people to begin with, and with combination of low test they often have trouble even functioning in the real world.

You on the other hand, despite the fact you have low test, are probably a very healthy individual. Your probably in great cardiovascular condition(and dont have alot of issues with estrogen/inflammation), eat healthy and live a reasonably healthy lifestyle which by itself is a trememdous thing to have.

Just imagine how your gonna feel(and perform) with a high end test level.

48

[quote]Kronk wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
To everyone here fustrated with your docs - DUMP THEM. Find yourself a doctor specializing in age management therapy, anti aging and the like. These people are LOOKING for people like you at any age. I have a doctor like this.

Unless your testing high range, they will help you get there. Bottom line.

I have been looking!
I went for mood , low libido, and lack of interest in things like earlier posts mentioned… My sister administers test shots to those with wasting diseases, and she reccommended my looking into HRT.

My doc told me none in the Indianapolis area would give me anything. The total free was all that was tested. All was well, according to the doc.

Looking on the internet, the numbers I was given came out to what an 18 year old would have. Doubtful for an overweight 41 year old!
My doc suggested cialis or viagra and some mood drug instead.

[/quote]

Keep looking, keep researching. Be like a friggen detective working on a murder case!

It took me 3 months to find a doc that not only I liked but that would work with me, and sounded like he knew what he was talking about.

49

[quote]Raw Power wrote:
How is it possible to have this low of a T-level and yet have no symptoms at all? [/quote]

Personally, I “felt better” at 150 than I felt at 284.

Who knows, maybe there is a “sweet spot” that your mind and body adapts to – “Oh, feeling this crappy is tolerable!”

But at anyrate, when the TRT has been working for me I feel much better than “tolerably crappy.”

I think your doctor is on the right track.

50

“How can I experience gains in strength, have an erection whenever and however long I want, etc., and have this low of a T-level? Has anyone else been down this road?”

Those are interesting questions. But it is clear that your T levels are very low. So try the TRT and I expect that things will get interesting. 5mg/day may not be enough and many do not absorb well or have skin problems. Injections are better for many reasons and many have done better on these after trying the transdermals.

As for shutting down your own production, it is clear that that is very low now, so not much of a loss to worry about.

Do you have free testosterone and estrogen levels now? These should be tested for and on-going. You clearly are not a normal testosterone producer and you may also have some abnormal responses to TRT. But everyone is different. You may have a low need for testosterone and have overactive testosterone receptors. In contrast, those who have low testosterone all their lives and normal receptors may be slow to mature, have little or no body hair on their upper body and have thin or sparse facial hair. When those types get TRT later in life, they can have more muscle potential then they ever had before, and body and new facial hair can develop for the first time.

Are your testes smaller or same as years ago? Do they hurt? If they start to get smaller or hurt when on TRT, then HCG injections will reverse that. The TRT can turn off your own LH production. HCG replaces that stimulus to the testes.

Keep an open mind and look for positive changes.

52

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Hmmm, to me, the idea of putting someone onto TRT, just because they measure low on a test, but have NO SYMPTOMS, is just as bad as refusing to put a low-t sufferer (ie all the symptoms) onto TRT, because they still measure 'low normal. Fucking doctors.[/quote]

In my case, I had some symptoms but didn’t understand them - I thought it was work burnout/complications from diabetes. Or that I was just getting older.

And even though I was low, I was able to work out, put on a little muscle, and even have crappy erections. I was low for so long that I thought it was “normal” to feel this way, which is what I suspect might be going on with Raw Power.

It would have been great if a doctor had intervened.

53

[quote]T-Nick wrote:
Raw Power wrote:
Hey Everyone,

I never thought I would have a problem with T-levels and I think I am still in denial now. Last year I went to see a doctor about an unrelated medical issue and he wanted to do blood work. He later informed me that my T-level was “in the tank” (my T-level numbers were under 200) and that I was “tapped out and finished” when it came to competitive powerlifting and being drug-free.

He wanted me on HRT and I refused it and then wanted an ultrasound on my liver done. I figured this guy was “fishing” so I never did any of it and didn’t go back.

I continued to train and experienced some strength gains and competed at the AAU Worlds and did great. The progress continued very slowly into this year and I competed in a meet last Summer and did very well with all PR’s on my lifts. I concluded that the doctor that I had seen last year was just goofin’ on me.

A month ago I went to another doctor for a minor injury I was suffering from and then this doctor decided to go “fishing” as well. I saw him last week and heard the same thing I did last year. My T-level was 137 and he told me I had hypogonadism. I couldn’t believe it.

Despite my protests he insisted that I go on HRT. I was against this because I thought it make me have a positive drug test for competing. The doctor told me that it would only bring me up to normal levels.

I am 39 years old and have been drug-free my entire lifting career. It was hard for me to accept this diagnosis because I had none of the symptoms that I should have for that low of a T-level. I feel great, have a great sex life, continue to get a little stronger here and there…I mean the list goes on and on.

I couldn’t point to anything in my past that could have caused this problem. All the doctor could say was, “You have the problem and that’s that”.

I had read posts on this forum before about the nightmares with Androgel. I asked the doctor if that was what he was going to put me on. He said it would be Testim. Before I left the office he insisted that I have an injection of testosterone to help get me started. What the heck, right? I took it. He’s got me on Testim 5g a day. You know the drill.

How is it possible to have this low of a T-level and yet have no symptoms at all?

What can I expect from Testim? I have done some reading on this and I know that my own production will stop once I get on this. Are my nuts going to shrink? Will I now start to have the symptoms that I am supposed to? I just still can’t believe it. It just doesn’t make sense. I keep thinking that the doctor had someone else’s lab slip mixed up with mine.

How can I experience gains in strength, have an erection whenever and however long I want, etc., and have this low of a T-level? Has anyone else been down this road?

I know this has been a long post. Thanks for your patience and any insights that you can offer.

I’d say this - your doctor is right first off, but the reason you feel great despite low test is that you probably do so many other things right.

Most people that suffer from low test and finally get treatment(usually in there 40’s and beyond) often lead sedentary, unhealthy lifestyles. They are generally unhealthy people to begin with, and with combination of low test they often have trouble even functioning in the real world.

You on the other hand, despite the fact you have low test, are probably a very healthy individual. Your probably in great cardiovascular condition(and dont have alot of issues with estrogen/inflammation), eat healthy and live a reasonably healthy lifestyle which by itself is a trememdous thing to have.

Just imagine how your gonna feel(and perform) with a high end test level.[/quote]

Those are some good points and what you said was true. I figured the doctor had to be right since this was the second time I have heard it. That’s why I finally relented and went on HRT. I guess right now I am a little worried that this may backfire and I will start to now have clear symptoms.

Thanks for your thoughts and input on this!

54

[quote]KSman wrote:
“How can I experience gains in strength, have an erection whenever and however long I want, etc., and have this low of a T-level? Has anyone else been down this road?”

Those are interesting questions. But it is clear that your T levels are very low. So try the TRT and I expect that things will get interesting. 5mg/day may not be enough and many do not absorb well or have skin problems. Injections are better for many reasons and many have done better on these after trying the transdermals.

As for shutting down your own production, it is clear that that is very low now, so not much of a loss to worry about.

Do you have free testosterone and estrogen levels now? These should be tested for and on-going. You clearly are not a normal testosterone producer and you may also have some abnormal responses to TRT. But everyone is different. You may have a low need for testosterone and have overactive testosterone receptors. In contrast, those who have low testosterone all their lives and normal receptors may be slow to mature, have little or no body hair on their upper body and have thin or sparse facial hair. When those types get TRT later in life, they can have more muscle potential then they ever had before, and body and new facial hair can develop for the first time.

Are your testes smaller or same as years ago? Do they hurt? If they start to get smaller or hurt when on TRT, then HCG injections will reverse that. The TRT can turn off your own LH production. HCG replaces that stimulus to the testes.

Keep an open mind and look for positive changes.[/quote]

You’re right, my T-level of 137 is low so worrying about my own production shutting down doesn’t make much sense. Nothing lost there, huh?

I don’t know what my free T-level was or estrogen. The doctor didn’t tell me. I’m not really sure what all that means. I guess I better do some more reading. I had heard of guys on steroids having to take estrogen blockers. Is this the same thing?

I matured pretty quickly when I was a youth. I started shaving in 8th grade and I had a beard my senior year not including all the body hair. Nothing has really changed today. I’ve got so much body hair I am embarrased to see my massage therapist. If I shave early in the morning I’ve got a shadow on my face by late afternoon. The tone of my voice has remained the same. That’s why it doesn’t make sense.

My testes are the same size they always have been. They don’t hurt. From time to time I have a pain in one of them but I figure that was from me pulling the bar over my groin area when I deadlift. I have wondered if this may have caused all this. I don’t know.

You’re right, I will keep an open mind about it. I am reluctant to put this stuff on everyday but I am still doing it because the doctor said, “Start it and don’t stop taking it.”

I appreciate the help.

56

Another Update:

So it is Monday and it seems like I’ve come crashing down.

Friday and Saturday and Sunday I felt pretty good, in spite of the fact that I wasn’t able to sleep much on Thursday and Friday. It was if my body just didn’t want to sleep. My libido came on pretty strong too – as somebody else said, if you aren’t thirsty, you don’t really think about water. Damn it was interesting to be thirsty again. . .and wow W A T E R. I am speechless – I forgot what a powerful thing that can be.

It was fun while it lasted.

But today’s Monday, I woke up with a fuzzy brain. My energy seems back down, my irritability is way up, and quite frankly I just want to be left alone.

Really wanting Wednesday to get here soon – when I can take the next shot.

Regards to all from here in the basement. At least this seem like it is going to work eventually.

57

[quote]e-loo wrote:
Another Update:

So it is Monday and it seems like I’ve come crashing down.

Friday and Saturday and Sunday I felt pretty good, in spite of the fact that I wasn’t able to sleep much on Thursday and Friday. It was if my body just didn’t want to sleep. My libido came on pretty strong too – as somebody else said, if you aren’t thirsty, you don’t really think about water. Damn it was interesting to be thirsty again. . .and wow W A T E R. I am speechless – I forgot what a powerful thing that can be.

It was fun while it lasted.

But today’s Monday, I woke up with a fuzzy brain. My energy seems back down, my irritability is way up, and quite frankly I just want to be left alone.

Really wanting Wednesday to get here soon – when I can take the next shot.

Regards to all from here in the basement. At least this seem like it is going to work eventually.[/quote]

The wild changes in T also affecting your blood sugar levels? Now you have a glimer of what drove me to injecting EOD. :wink:

58

[quote]KSman wrote:
The wild changes in T also affecting your blood sugar levels? Now you have a glimer of what drove me to injecting EOD. ;)[/quote]

So far blood sugar levels seem ok – they fluctuate some but not by a whole lot. Not on insulin any more; I have it controlled w diet and exercise.

Man if I was having to tinker w insulin dosages everyday to keep on top of this I think I would go nuts.

59

Hi all - same symptoms here as Eloo
and 3 mos. on 10mg of Androgel has
not really alleviated much - maybe some.
It raised me from 237 total/ 9 free
to 618 total / 18.2 free. I just dont feel much better. Any thoughts on how to
stop the A gel w/ out feeling like crap ?

thanks to all - PV

ps - eloo , hope you feel better soon.

60

What do you experienced guys make of this?

I mentioned that I have a regular follow-up visit w the doc in a little less than a month. I called his office to find out when he would want me to get my testosterone levels done, given the shot schedule to get the most accurate level.

The message I got back was that now that I am on intramuscular testosterone injections I do not need to get my levels tested before my visit w him.

But for the future, if I were to want to get my levels tested, then it would be done in the midpoint between shots. But don’t need to do it now.

This seems odd to me – on the one hand it seems like a good opportunity to move to weekly injections (or more) as you all have suggested. And then see how I feel over the month. And if things don’t seem right, bug the doc at the appointment.