How's The Bible Right - Being a Good Person?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]CornSprint wrote:
Pat 1: People as a whole are far from perfect-I would propose that the vast majority of us understand the basis of many teachings that would make our lives more pleasant and amicable (golden rule in particular) but fail to apply it when tempers rise. It is definitely easier to speak on theory than to practice it.

Pat 2: The first sentence is fair-I was just referring to what was proposed in this thread as one reason.

In terms of the “ridiculousness” I reference, I’m speaking mainly on some of the (in my mind) overly restrictive/antiquated tenants set forth in the Old Testament (dietary for instance). Incredibly large was hyperbole-it is indeed vastly outweighed by either neutral or positive messages. I got caught up in my end of the discussion.

In regards to my religious beliefs-I have read the Bible in its entirety once and specific sections more often. From my reading/readings I have found more value personally in approaching it (Old Testament in particular) in such a way that I take the lessons but not the literal words themselves to heart. For me the over-arching messages remain the same but the minutia I run into day to day falls into the realm of the mind and teachings God has given us.[/quote]

I never ever post in this section and don’t know what kind of political or worldly spin I can put on my beliefs. I’m sure that I will be ignored or ripped to shreds but so be it.

We are all far from perfect in our behavior. The difference between Christians and people that aren’t is forgiveness. Yes, some do struggle with maintaining their temper. We all are war with flesh but if you can learn to control your tongue, you can control your body. Also, being Christian is not a feel-good club. We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.

The Old Testament is not null and void; you should be familiar with it as its teachings should still be known. Having said that, we are living during the time when New Testament rules apply - walk in love.

The Bible is living Word and should constantly be read. I would always pray before I read that God would reveal His glory to me and teach me through his Word. He never failed me. As you mature in spirit, you will understand more. Honestly, it breaks my heart that you reject the guide that He has given to you. Good deeds are not what gain you entry to heaven. [/quote]

I respect your beliefs, but I’ll second the notion that Christians are far from persecuted in this country.

Do people disagree with you, some of them rudely? Of course. That can be said of anyone with any belief. But persecution–that word carries a bit of gravity in my mind–of Christians in the US? I don’t see it, at all. [/quote]

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs all of the time. You may not notice this if you are not Christian yourself. Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe.

22

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]CornSprint wrote:
Pat 1: People as a whole are far from perfect-I would propose that the vast majority of us understand the basis of many teachings that would make our lives more pleasant and amicable (golden rule in particular) but fail to apply it when tempers rise. It is definitely easier to speak on theory than to practice it.

Pat 2: The first sentence is fair-I was just referring to what was proposed in this thread as one reason.

In terms of the “ridiculousness” I reference, I’m speaking mainly on some of the (in my mind) overly restrictive/antiquated tenants set forth in the Old Testament (dietary for instance). Incredibly large was hyperbole-it is indeed vastly outweighed by either neutral or positive messages. I got caught up in my end of the discussion.

In regards to my religious beliefs-I have read the Bible in its entirety once and specific sections more often. From my reading/readings I have found more value personally in approaching it (Old Testament in particular) in such a way that I take the lessons but not the literal words themselves to heart. For me the over-arching messages remain the same but the minutia I run into day to day falls into the realm of the mind and teachings God has given us.[/quote]

I never ever post in this section and don’t know what kind of political or worldly spin I can put on my beliefs. I’m sure that I will be ignored or ripped to shreds but so be it.

We are all far from perfect in our behavior. The difference between Christians and people that aren’t is forgiveness. Yes, some do struggle with maintaining their temper. We all are war with flesh but if you can learn to control your tongue, you can control your body. Also, being Christian is not a feel-good club. We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.

The Old Testament is not null and void; you should be familiar with it as its teachings should still be known. Having said that, we are living during the time when New Testament rules apply - walk in love.

The Bible is living Word and should constantly be read. I would always pray before I read that God would reveal His glory to me and teach me through his Word. He never failed me. As you mature in spirit, you will understand more. Honestly, it breaks my heart that you reject the guide that He has given to you. Good deeds are not what gain you entry to heaven. [/quote]
You would take flak from people that are more fundamentalist from your positions. Likely some from nonbelievers but most of them are going to just state that they think your premises are untrue.

Do you really think Christians are more forgiving than others? My personal experience has been that its the same or in the other direction.
As well if you think Christians are the persecuted minority in Murrica you are deluded.

For a delve into evolutionary biology it is possible(I’d say likely but I’m not going to quibble) that things like empathy were not in existence or as developed 2k years ago as they are now. Simply from reading the documents of the time as historical records. So very easily behaviors considered abhorrent today by and large would be not abnormal 2k years ago.

[/quote]

By forgiveness, I meant that Christians have been forgiven by God if they have asked him for forgiveness. People, including Christians, can be unforgiving. That prevents them from maturing spiritually however and prevents them from having a greater relationship with Christ.

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs in every country. There are other groups that are persecuted but Christians are included.

By abhorrent behavior, do you mean the difference between the “more violent” Old Testament as opposed to the New?[/quote]
Ok I assumed you meant more forgiving than others in general which I would say they are not.

I would say there is no persecution of Christians in America in any meaningful sense of the word.

To your last point yes. We are much less violent as a species than we used to be. Likely some of this is simply from the way we think changing. Maybe concepts like compassion and empathy weren’t really developed in prehistory and early history. Thus behaviors like the ritual sodomy of a defeated enemy weren’t considered particularly wrong at the time, but now would be seen as a wartime atrocity.

23

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]CornSprint wrote:
Pat 1: People as a whole are far from perfect-I would propose that the vast majority of us understand the basis of many teachings that would make our lives more pleasant and amicable (golden rule in particular) but fail to apply it when tempers rise. It is definitely easier to speak on theory than to practice it.

Pat 2: The first sentence is fair-I was just referring to what was proposed in this thread as one reason.

In terms of the “ridiculousness” I reference, I’m speaking mainly on some of the (in my mind) overly restrictive/antiquated tenants set forth in the Old Testament (dietary for instance). Incredibly large was hyperbole-it is indeed vastly outweighed by either neutral or positive messages. I got caught up in my end of the discussion.

In regards to my religious beliefs-I have read the Bible in its entirety once and specific sections more often. From my reading/readings I have found more value personally in approaching it (Old Testament in particular) in such a way that I take the lessons but not the literal words themselves to heart. For me the over-arching messages remain the same but the minutia I run into day to day falls into the realm of the mind and teachings God has given us.[/quote]

I never ever post in this section and don’t know what kind of political or worldly spin I can put on my beliefs. I’m sure that I will be ignored or ripped to shreds but so be it.

We are all far from perfect in our behavior. The difference between Christians and people that aren’t is forgiveness. Yes, some do struggle with maintaining their temper. We all are war with flesh but if you can learn to control your tongue, you can control your body. Also, being Christian is not a feel-good club. We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.

The Old Testament is not null and void; you should be familiar with it as its teachings should still be known. Having said that, we are living during the time when New Testament rules apply - walk in love.

The Bible is living Word and should constantly be read. I would always pray before I read that God would reveal His glory to me and teach me through his Word. He never failed me. As you mature in spirit, you will understand more. Honestly, it breaks my heart that you reject the guide that He has given to you. Good deeds are not what gain you entry to heaven. [/quote]

I respect your beliefs, but I’ll second the notion that Christians are far from persecuted in this country.

Do people disagree with you, some of them rudely? Of course. That can be said of anyone with any belief. But persecution–that word carries a bit of gravity in my mind–of Christians in the US? I don’t see it, at all. [/quote]

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs all of the time. You may not notice this if you are not Christian yourself. Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

I think that’s a very cheap way of looking at it. Christians in the past have been tortured, beaten, raped, killed you name it.

Diluting the term persecution to treating someone differently only acts to disrespect those that were actually persecuted under the faith.

24

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]CornSprint wrote:
Pat 1: People as a whole are far from perfect-I would propose that the vast majority of us understand the basis of many teachings that would make our lives more pleasant and amicable (golden rule in particular) but fail to apply it when tempers rise. It is definitely easier to speak on theory than to practice it.

Pat 2: The first sentence is fair-I was just referring to what was proposed in this thread as one reason.

In terms of the “ridiculousness” I reference, I’m speaking mainly on some of the (in my mind) overly restrictive/antiquated tenants set forth in the Old Testament (dietary for instance). Incredibly large was hyperbole-it is indeed vastly outweighed by either neutral or positive messages. I got caught up in my end of the discussion.

In regards to my religious beliefs-I have read the Bible in its entirety once and specific sections more often. From my reading/readings I have found more value personally in approaching it (Old Testament in particular) in such a way that I take the lessons but not the literal words themselves to heart. For me the over-arching messages remain the same but the minutia I run into day to day falls into the realm of the mind and teachings God has given us.[/quote]

I never ever post in this section and don’t know what kind of political or worldly spin I can put on my beliefs. I’m sure that I will be ignored or ripped to shreds but so be it.

We are all far from perfect in our behavior. The difference between Christians and people that aren’t is forgiveness. Yes, some do struggle with maintaining their temper. We all are war with flesh but if you can learn to control your tongue, you can control your body. Also, being Christian is not a feel-good club. We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.

The Old Testament is not null and void; you should be familiar with it as its teachings should still be known. Having said that, we are living during the time when New Testament rules apply - walk in love.

The Bible is living Word and should constantly be read. I would always pray before I read that God would reveal His glory to me and teach me through his Word. He never failed me. As you mature in spirit, you will understand more. Honestly, it breaks my heart that you reject the guide that He has given to you. Good deeds are not what gain you entry to heaven. [/quote]

I respect your beliefs, but I’ll second the notion that Christians are far from persecuted in this country.

Do people disagree with you, some of them rudely? Of course. That can be said of anyone with any belief. But persecution–that word carries a bit of gravity in my mind–of Christians in the US? I don’t see it, at all. [/quote]

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs all of the time. You may not notice this if you are not Christian yourself. Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]
You misunderstand what persecution means.

25

It saids that in the bible?

Jesus associated himself with criminals and murderers.

26

[quote]DazeDolo wrote:
It saids that in the bible?

Jesus associated himself with criminals and murderers.[/quote]

The people that needed His help.

27

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.

28

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]CornSprint wrote:
Pat 1: People as a whole are far from perfect-I would propose that the vast majority of us understand the basis of many teachings that would make our lives more pleasant and amicable (golden rule in particular) but fail to apply it when tempers rise. It is definitely easier to speak on theory than to practice it.

Pat 2: The first sentence is fair-I was just referring to what was proposed in this thread as one reason.

In terms of the “ridiculousness” I reference, I’m speaking mainly on some of the (in my mind) overly restrictive/antiquated tenants set forth in the Old Testament (dietary for instance). Incredibly large was hyperbole-it is indeed vastly outweighed by either neutral or positive messages. I got caught up in my end of the discussion.

In regards to my religious beliefs-I have read the Bible in its entirety once and specific sections more often. From my reading/readings I have found more value personally in approaching it (Old Testament in particular) in such a way that I take the lessons but not the literal words themselves to heart. For me the over-arching messages remain the same but the minutia I run into day to day falls into the realm of the mind and teachings God has given us.[/quote]

I never ever post in this section and don’t know what kind of political or worldly spin I can put on my beliefs. I’m sure that I will be ignored or ripped to shreds but so be it.

We are all far from perfect in our behavior. The difference between Christians and people that aren’t is forgiveness. Yes, some do struggle with maintaining their temper. We all are war with flesh but if you can learn to control your tongue, you can control your body. Also, being Christian is not a feel-good club. We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.

The Old Testament is not null and void; you should be familiar with it as its teachings should still be known. Having said that, we are living during the time when New Testament rules apply - walk in love.

The Bible is living Word and should constantly be read. I would always pray before I read that God would reveal His glory to me and teach me through his Word. He never failed me. As you mature in spirit, you will understand more. Honestly, it breaks my heart that you reject the guide that He has given to you. Good deeds are not what gain you entry to heaven. [/quote]

I respect your beliefs, but I’ll second the notion that Christians are far from persecuted in this country.

Do people disagree with you, some of them rudely? Of course. That can be said of anyone with any belief. But persecution–that word carries a bit of gravity in my mind–of Christians in the US? I don’t see it, at all. [/quote]

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs all of the time. You may not notice this if you are not Christian yourself. Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]
You misunderstand what persecution means.[/quote]

I said persecution, not execution. I’m well aware of what other countries have gone through. I befriended a woman from Sudan years ago and you were asked in the country what religion you were and you said Christian and you were a woman, they would shave off all of your hair.

Now I don’t know how you define persecution so I cannot speak beyond my own interpretation.

29

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]CornSprint wrote:
Pat 1: People as a whole are far from perfect-I would propose that the vast majority of us understand the basis of many teachings that would make our lives more pleasant and amicable (golden rule in particular) but fail to apply it when tempers rise. It is definitely easier to speak on theory than to practice it.

Pat 2: The first sentence is fair-I was just referring to what was proposed in this thread as one reason.

In terms of the “ridiculousness” I reference, I’m speaking mainly on some of the (in my mind) overly restrictive/antiquated tenants set forth in the Old Testament (dietary for instance). Incredibly large was hyperbole-it is indeed vastly outweighed by either neutral or positive messages. I got caught up in my end of the discussion.

In regards to my religious beliefs-I have read the Bible in its entirety once and specific sections more often. From my reading/readings I have found more value personally in approaching it (Old Testament in particular) in such a way that I take the lessons but not the literal words themselves to heart. For me the over-arching messages remain the same but the minutia I run into day to day falls into the realm of the mind and teachings God has given us.[/quote]

I never ever post in this section and don’t know what kind of political or worldly spin I can put on my beliefs. I’m sure that I will be ignored or ripped to shreds but so be it.

We are all far from perfect in our behavior. The difference between Christians and people that aren’t is forgiveness. Yes, some do struggle with maintaining their temper. We all are war with flesh but if you can learn to control your tongue, you can control your body. Also, being Christian is not a feel-good club. We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.

The Old Testament is not null and void; you should be familiar with it as its teachings should still be known. Having said that, we are living during the time when New Testament rules apply - walk in love.

The Bible is living Word and should constantly be read. I would always pray before I read that God would reveal His glory to me and teach me through his Word. He never failed me. As you mature in spirit, you will understand more. Honestly, it breaks my heart that you reject the guide that He has given to you. Good deeds are not what gain you entry to heaven. [/quote]
You would take flak from people that are more fundamentalist from your positions. Likely some from nonbelievers but most of them are going to just state that they think your premises are untrue.

Do you really think Christians are more forgiving than others? My personal experience has been that its the same or in the other direction.
As well if you think Christians are the persecuted minority in Murrica you are deluded.

For a delve into evolutionary biology it is possible(I’d say likely but I’m not going to quibble) that things like empathy were not in existence or as developed 2k years ago as they are now. Simply from reading the documents of the time as historical records. So very easily behaviors considered abhorrent today by and large would be not abnormal 2k years ago.

[/quote]

By forgiveness, I meant that Christians have been forgiven by God if they have asked him for forgiveness. People, including Christians, can be unforgiving. That prevents them from maturing spiritually however and prevents them from having a greater relationship with Christ.

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs in every country. There are other groups that are persecuted but Christians are included.

By abhorrent behavior, do you mean the difference between the “more violent” Old Testament as opposed to the New?[/quote]
Ok I assumed you meant more forgiving than others in general which I would say they are not.

I would say there is no persecution of Christians in America in any meaningful sense of the word.

To your last point yes. We are much less violent as a species than we used to be. Likely some of this is simply from the way we think changing. Maybe concepts like compassion and empathy weren’t really developed in prehistory and early history. Thus behaviors like the ritual sodomy of a defeated enemy weren’t considered particularly wrong at the time, but now would be seen as a wartime atrocity.[/quote]

This is not always the case, sadly. I agree with you.

What does persecution mean to you?

I would like to believe that we are a more civilized people now. Maybe more, maybe less, I do not know the answer to this other than I know I am supposed to act.

30

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
31

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
    [/quote]

Dictionaries aren’t authorities they merely describe usage.

Context is important.

32

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]CornSprint wrote:
Pat 1: People as a whole are far from perfect-I would propose that the vast majority of us understand the basis of many teachings that would make our lives more pleasant and amicable (golden rule in particular) but fail to apply it when tempers rise. It is definitely easier to speak on theory than to practice it.

Pat 2: The first sentence is fair-I was just referring to what was proposed in this thread as one reason.

In terms of the “ridiculousness” I reference, I’m speaking mainly on some of the (in my mind) overly restrictive/antiquated tenants set forth in the Old Testament (dietary for instance). Incredibly large was hyperbole-it is indeed vastly outweighed by either neutral or positive messages. I got caught up in my end of the discussion.

In regards to my religious beliefs-I have read the Bible in its entirety once and specific sections more often. From my reading/readings I have found more value personally in approaching it (Old Testament in particular) in such a way that I take the lessons but not the literal words themselves to heart. For me the over-arching messages remain the same but the minutia I run into day to day falls into the realm of the mind and teachings God has given us.[/quote]

I never ever post in this section and don’t know what kind of political or worldly spin I can put on my beliefs. I’m sure that I will be ignored or ripped to shreds but so be it.

We are all far from perfect in our behavior. The difference between Christians and people that aren’t is forgiveness. Yes, some do struggle with maintaining their temper. We all are war with flesh but if you can learn to control your tongue, you can control your body. Also, being Christian is not a feel-good club. We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.

The Old Testament is not null and void; you should be familiar with it as its teachings should still be known. Having said that, we are living during the time when New Testament rules apply - walk in love.

The Bible is living Word and should constantly be read. I would always pray before I read that God would reveal His glory to me and teach me through his Word. He never failed me. As you mature in spirit, you will understand more. Honestly, it breaks my heart that you reject the guide that He has given to you. Good deeds are not what gain you entry to heaven. [/quote]

I respect your beliefs, but I’ll second the notion that Christians are far from persecuted in this country.

Do people disagree with you, some of them rudely? Of course. That can be said of anyone with any belief. But persecution–that word carries a bit of gravity in my mind–of Christians in the US? I don’t see it, at all. [/quote]

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs all of the time. You may not notice this if you are not Christian yourself. Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]
You misunderstand what persecution means.[/quote]

I said persecution, not execution. I’m well aware of what other countries have gone through. I befriended a woman from Sudan years ago and you were asked in the country what religion you were and you said Christian and you were a woman, they would shave off all of your hair.

Now I don’t know how you define persecution so I cannot speak beyond my own interpretation.[/quote]

This:
Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group.

I’d say Christians in the Middle East might face this.
There isn’t as systematic mistreatment of Christians in the US though.

33

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
    [/quote]

Dictionaries aren’t authorities they merely describe usage.

Context is important.[/quote]

According to that philosophy, it would always be open to interpretation.

34

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
    [/quote]

Dictionaries aren’t authorities they merely describe usage.

Context is important.[/quote]

According to that philosophy, it would always be open to interpretation. [/quote]

I would say you are using persecution in a very banal sense if you want to equate what the woman in the Sudan went through with a non theist hassling you in the US and think those things are truly synonomous.

35

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
    [/quote]

Dictionaries aren’t authorities they merely describe usage.

Context is important.[/quote]

According to that philosophy, it would always be open to interpretation. [/quote]

It would always be open for discussion, yes. Of course you’d be foolish to argue 95% of word meanings.

36

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]CornSprint wrote:
Pat 1: People as a whole are far from perfect-I would propose that the vast majority of us understand the basis of many teachings that would make our lives more pleasant and amicable (golden rule in particular) but fail to apply it when tempers rise. It is definitely easier to speak on theory than to practice it.

Pat 2: The first sentence is fair-I was just referring to what was proposed in this thread as one reason.

In terms of the “ridiculousness” I reference, I’m speaking mainly on some of the (in my mind) overly restrictive/antiquated tenants set forth in the Old Testament (dietary for instance). Incredibly large was hyperbole-it is indeed vastly outweighed by either neutral or positive messages. I got caught up in my end of the discussion.

In regards to my religious beliefs-I have read the Bible in its entirety once and specific sections more often. From my reading/readings I have found more value personally in approaching it (Old Testament in particular) in such a way that I take the lessons but not the literal words themselves to heart. For me the over-arching messages remain the same but the minutia I run into day to day falls into the realm of the mind and teachings God has given us.[/quote]

I never ever post in this section and don’t know what kind of political or worldly spin I can put on my beliefs. I’m sure that I will be ignored or ripped to shreds but so be it.

We are all far from perfect in our behavior. The difference between Christians and people that aren’t is forgiveness. Yes, some do struggle with maintaining their temper. We all are war with flesh but if you can learn to control your tongue, you can control your body. Also, being Christian is not a feel-good club. We should be aware that we will be persecuted for what we believe and that our reward comes after this life on earth.

The Old Testament is not null and void; you should be familiar with it as its teachings should still be known. Having said that, we are living during the time when New Testament rules apply - walk in love.

The Bible is living Word and should constantly be read. I would always pray before I read that God would reveal His glory to me and teach me through his Word. He never failed me. As you mature in spirit, you will understand more. Honestly, it breaks my heart that you reject the guide that He has given to you. Good deeds are not what gain you entry to heaven. [/quote]

I respect your beliefs, but I’ll second the notion that Christians are far from persecuted in this country.

Do people disagree with you, some of them rudely? Of course. That can be said of anyone with any belief. But persecution–that word carries a bit of gravity in my mind–of Christians in the US? I don’t see it, at all. [/quote]

Christians are persecuted for their beliefs all of the time. You may not notice this if you are not Christian yourself. Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]
You misunderstand what persecution means.[/quote]

I said persecution, not execution. I’m well aware of what other countries have gone through. I befriended a woman from Sudan years ago and you were asked in the country what religion you were and you said Christian and you were a woman, they would shave off all of your hair.

Now I don’t know how you define persecution so I cannot speak beyond my own interpretation.[/quote]

This:
Persecution is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group.

I’d say Christians in the Middle East might face this.
There isn’t as systematic mistreatment of Christians in the US though.
[/quote]

Perhaps I could use the term religious hostility since there seems to be an issue with the word persecution? Maybe I’m not doing the best job at explaining myself although it seems that some are focusing solely on details and missing the overall picture. Anyways, my argument is not only for Christians in the US but everywhere. I didn’t make geographical limitations.

37

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
    [/quote]

Dictionaries aren’t authorities they merely describe usage.

Context is important.[/quote]

According to that philosophy, it would always be open to interpretation. [/quote]

I would say you are using persecution in a very banal sense if you want to equate what the woman in the Sudan went through with a non theist hassling you in the US and think those things are truly synonomous.
[/quote]

The word has a broad definition and I never argued that anything was synonymous. By your logic, a person that was hit has no reason to be upset because he could have been shot and that’s worse. Do you not see that both are wrong? There are worse things that happen to people that live outside of Sudan. That shouldn’t discount what that woman or those women were put through.

38

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
    [/quote]

Dictionaries aren’t authorities they merely describe usage.

Context is important.[/quote]

According to that philosophy, it would always be open to interpretation. [/quote]

It would always be open for discussion, yes. Of course you’d be foolish to argue 95% of word meanings.
[/quote]

Exactly which is why I dropped using that particular word since I feel that some were more hung up on the definition than the message.

39

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
    [/quote]

Dictionaries aren’t authorities they merely describe usage.

Context is important.[/quote]

According to that philosophy, it would always be open to interpretation. [/quote]

I would say you are using persecution in a very banal sense if you want to equate what the woman in the Sudan went through with a non theist hassling you in the US and think those things are truly synonomous.
[/quote]

The word has a broad definition and I never argued that anything was synonymous. By your logic, a person that was hit has no reason to be upset because he could have been shot and that’s worse. Do you not see that both are wrong? There are worse things that happen to people that live outside of Sudan. That shouldn’t discount what that woman or those women were put through.[/quote]

Generally speaking when someone uses the term religious persecution they are meaning something akin to the holocaust. Or Missouri condoning Mormons being killed. Its rarely and by rarely I’ve personally never seen it used in the sense of wow I was persecuted in that philosophy class by those atheists. Using in the broad sense trivializes the other I believe.

However I concede your point sometimes in the US people that have religious convictions do get their feelings hurt.

40

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
Persecution can simply be to treat somebody differently, poorly, based on what they believe. [/quote]

Then everyone is persecuted, everywhere. People treat me differently sometimes because of my political and religious beliefs too. On this very forum, posters occasionally deride me for something I believe (and I do it back, of course. It’s just part of discussion). I wouldn’t call myself “persecuted.”

I think such a strong word should be reserved for people facing formidable or state-sponsored opposition. Copts in Egypt maybe, or girls who want to attend school in Northern Pakistan.[/quote]

I don’t treat you differently because of what you believe. Also, although I do believe that Christians are persecuted (replace with sufficient word if you don’t feel that is appropriate), I do not personally let it bother me or shake me from my course. It’s merely an observation or statement and it doesn’t bother me. Trials and tribulations I am thankful for.

persecute
verb

  1. victimize, hunt, injure, pursue, torture, hound, torment, martyr, oppress, pick on, molest, ill-treat, maltreat They have been persecuted for their beliefs.
    [/quote]

Dictionaries aren’t authorities they merely describe usage.

Context is important.[/quote]

According to that philosophy, it would always be open to interpretation. [/quote]

I would say you are using persecution in a very banal sense if you want to equate what the woman in the Sudan went through with a non theist hassling you in the US and think those things are truly synonomous.
[/quote]

The word has a broad definition and I never argued that anything was synonymous. By your logic, a person that was hit has no reason to be upset because he could have been shot and that’s worse. Do you not see that both are wrong? There are worse things that happen to people that live outside of Sudan. That shouldn’t discount what that woman or those women were put through.[/quote]

Generally speaking when someone uses the term religious persecution they are meaning something akin to the holocaust. Or Missouri condoning Mormons being killed. Its rarely and by rarely I’ve personally never seen it used in the sense of wow I was persecuted in that philosophy class by those atheists. Using in the broad sense trivializes the other I believe.

However I concede your point sometimes in the US people that have religious convictions do get their feelings hurt.
[/quote]

Oh dear, yes. I see your point and that I did replace it with about the same thing. Please disregard and tell me what word would satiate you in the sense that I would like to use it?

I did not raise a point about people having their feelings hurt. I’m not sure where that came from.